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If your basic philosophy is to NOT get married
You state that in present tense. My comment above was stated in the past tense. In my twenties, I was not ready or wanted to be married. By the time I entered into my relationship with D, that was changing. In the course of the relationship, I found myself wanting it.

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You have a reluctance to marry
Not being ready does not signify a reluctance. I simply wasn't ready for that level of commitment. Everything in its place and time.

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I guess I am saying this because even when people make vows and promises in a marriage they fail them, but the NEED for commitment and a willingness to "forsake" all others are part of those vows. Your friendship with Todd, while in and of itself of no deep form, threatened D. Further, I am sure he feels/felt diminished by his own travails, thus the presence of Todd threatened him. You did not see this becuase I suspect you were feeling "I am my own woman, I can whoever I want as friends." Reasonable but not very good for a relationship and certainly not for a marriage.
I absolutely, 100% agree with you. I had not completely switched gears to that of a marriage-minded, commitment oriented person. I was still acting in my old ways, as a 20-something y/o who answered to no one. I truly believed I was not causing any harm and did not recognize anything wrong with my behavior. It took me a bit to really open my eyes. It took D repeatedly saying that he felt I had chosen Todd over him before I started to see what he was really saying. I did not take the steps necessary to safeguard my relationship and "forsake" all others. I insisted in maintaining my friendship because I was "doing nothing wrong". That caused D to feel that his feelings did not matter...that HE did not matter, which was not my intention. Intention/perception...ouch.

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I know this sound as if I am bashing you...
Nah. I have faults. I know I do. I can't always see them.

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The issues you have mentioned between you and D, seem consistent to me with someone or a couple that is NOT commited to the relationship wholeheartedly.
Funny thing is, D made the same statement about me. I guess I wanted the prize and was willing to put in the work, but I hedged on the compromising and/or sacrificing. I wanted it MY way.

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I realize that you are now thinking that marriage might be a good idea. And I would ask you what you think marriage would provide you now that it would not have years ago? It seems to me you need to be clear on this, in order to make some decisions regarding D.
Not just recently thinking about marriage. I've known for awhile (years). In my twenties, I was not ready to make a lifelong committment to someone. Years ago, I had not the desire for the steady, long-term companionship of one person. I didn't want to be bound. That was how I viewed it. I hadn't met someone I wanted that with.

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I don't agree with his solution to the problems he was facing, the A, but he did have a problem and you were part of it. How would he handle it today? Seems to be a good question to ask. What has changed and how has he changed also seems to be a good question to ask?

You see I am not looking at the affair as the issue. I don't even think trust is the real issue. I think that you two have not sat down and really discussed how you see life, what you want out of life, how you value yourselves, and what you need and expect from a relationship, up to and including marriage.
These are things that need to be discussed. Hopefully we'll have the opportunity real soon.


Life is 10% circumstance. The rest is what YOU make of it!
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OB1,

I should add, that I wasn't ready to be married in my 20's either, hence I waited until my 30's. I was engaged at 21, but the lessons learned from that clearly showed I was not ready and that I did NOT need the type of woman my fiance turned out to be.

But, I think we are agreeing that you both really need to think about what relationships, marriage and such mean to you and what each of you expects. I do believe that will help you to determine your course of action with regard to D, and his course of action with regard to you.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

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Todd has been calling a lot. I sent him a quick email to explain that I wanted to focus on my relationship issues and try to resolve them. I asked for the space I needed to do this. He's now resorting to having his son call to try and get me on the phone. It's freaking me out a bit. He's NEVER acted like this before.

Opinions? Advice?


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OB1,
Could you block his phone number? I mean, from what you've said, you told him you need to concentrate on your relationship with D. Maybe you need to take more concrete action and tell him that because you are working on your R with D, that you HAVE to go NC with him. Lay it down just like a NC letter. In many ways, this is VERY similar to an EA, whether it's onesided or not. If Todd is a "true" friend, he will understand and abide your wishes. Who cares if you were friends BEFORE D came into your life. For yourself, it was always just a friendship. It sounds as if D was right about Todd's motives since he's trying everything to get your attention now that you've decided what you wish to do. It is unhealthy for you and your R with D having Todd pushing his way into your lives. No matter what, someone is going to get hurt. If you truly love D as you say you do, then you need to stand by him, and continue to repair that R.

Good luck!


Tigger
me~BS & WS~38~~h~BS & WS~37 my d-days~7/92, 1/96, 7/00, 9/07
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I can't block his number. He has my work, cell and home phone. I'm screening the calls as best I can, but he's getting sneaky. He's using his son to call me and is also transferring in on my work line. Thankfully I've been busy and haven't had time to answer the work phone very much. My co-workers have been pretty good about letting me know "that" guy is calling again. I didn't want to end my friendship with him on a bad note, but if I have to tell him to "get lost", then I'll have to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I was hoping to avoid that kind of scene.

It worries me that he's become aggressive like this. He's NEVER acted like this before. I'm not sure what to make of it. This is not the predictable friend I know him to be. The night before last, he got through to my son on the house phone and was questioning him about Damon, wanting to know if he was harrassing me. Todd has a real hate on for Damon. They've both expressed desire to beat the crap out of each other. I DON'T want this to escalate. That was the main reason I kept the two apart in the past...more because of D's volatile temper when it comes to Todd. Damon's idea of handling this problem involves hand and fist. Todd's more even-tempered, but would not hesitate to oblige Damon. I don't want either of them hurt, especially over something like this. D carries on like there was a full-blown affair with Todd, when I never did anything different with him than what I would have done with one of my best girls.

Tig, I can see what you're saying about the EA. I have to chew on that. Actually, no I don't, come to think of it. Todd is not my focus/concern. D is. For me, there was nothing more than friendship. Part of resolving things with D means letting that friendship go. Todd will have to accept that.


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BTW, how's Abby? The family? Sailorman?


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Yes, I'm afraid that this friendship will have to end, and like yesterday by the sounds of Todd's obsessive behavior! By the EA, I wasn't implying that YOU were in an EA, but that Todd IS. They've made so many movies just on this topic, one that comes to mind is "My Best Friend's Wedding" only the roles are reversed here. The one side is friendship, but the other is a deep hidden love. When the one who is in love with the other, and it's not returned, but given to someone else, things escalate. I think that's exactly what's happened to you and your friendship with Todd. He is NOT being a friend, but a possible danger to you and your children! If D is your focus, you need to tell Todd straight out how it really is(by the way, you might wish to edit your posts if you wish to keep it as "D", since you've mentioned his name a couple times)

One way you can "prove" to D that you are NOT having any type of A with Todd is to have D help you with a NC/boundaries letter. Just as a H and W would do, you need to at least broach this subject with D. And, when you do, don't come at it like you are only doing this to prove to him that you aren't involved with Todd. You need to do it because you want to and you want to save this R with D. You are walking on egg shells with Todd, trying not to upset him, when you need to completely focus on D. I really hope that this works out for you!

As for Abbi, Sailorman and the rest of the family, well, Sailorman is on deployment, but we are past the half way point and he will be home soon. Abbi is growing by leaps and bounds! Still wears glasses and had surgery 3 years ago. Our older children are doing very well. In fact, we have been reunited with our birthdaughter this past year! So, overall we are doing great. It sucks being seperated like this, but we know it has an end and its coming up very soon.

Keep us updated!


Tigger
me~BS & WS~38~~h~BS & WS~37 my d-days~7/92, 1/96, 7/00, 9/07
h's d-days~7/11/00 & 2 weeks later 3 COM, 1 OC(mine)
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...we have been reunited with our birthdaughter this past year!

Get out! Tigger, that's great! I know that was a tough choice for you. I wanna hear ALL about it.

As for Todd, my approach (or lack of) to this is obviously not working. I'm trying to keep D in the know. In the past, when I didn't tell him something (with his ok), it came back to bite me in the butt. He wasn't honest with me about his feelings and what he wanted. At times, he makes me feel dumb when I tell him what's going on...like it makes no difference to him, yet I KNOW it does. I know it by the bad reaction I get whenever Todd comes up.


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Have you guys filled out the EN questionares? He may need reassurance, and whether he acknowledges it or not, it helps him know that you care enough about how it really makes him feel if you let him know what's going on. I still think a big boost would be to end your friendship with Todd. Especially since Todd keeps breaking the boundaries.

As for our reunion, email me at **edit** I don't think I have your email addy anymore.

Last edited by MBLBanker; 07/31/11 09:54 PM. Reason: Removing email

Tigger
me~BS & WS~38~~h~BS & WS~37 my d-days~7/92, 1/96, 7/00, 9/07
h's d-days~7/11/00 & 2 weeks later 3 COM, 1 OC(mine)
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OB1,

My thoughts are that you should craft a NC letter to Todd, he is proving to NOT be the friend you thought, perhaps D saw that in him. Then show it to D for him to read and approve. After that mail the letter to Todd, with Yours and D's signatures on it, if D will sign it.

Keep a copy of it in case you need to obtain a restraining order on Todd. Him going through his child and YOUR child to contact you when you have said you don't want a contact, is NOT a good thing.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

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