For those of you that do not know the story of the WW and I you can pick up the link Friends are helping WW.

But this is about the last MC meeting that we went to. Things seem to be getting better at home. I mean she did put on her wedding ring and moved back into the bedroom with me. At the MC I asked the meaning of this and she said it was what I wanted. Well as the session went on I asked her what the biggest thing that we need to work on for recovery and she stated it was trust. She does not "trust" me because of some of the actions that I had to take to get her this far. Spyware on computer, cell phone records, Separated financially etc.

So the question to the group is how do we get over the fact that WW does not TRUST me? I still have trust issues with her but do not show them to her. Same issues on trust with WW as anyone would have when a EA occurred.

Suggestions on how to work on trust issues with her. MC I think is useless but the WW likes her and thinks that she is helping so I will continue to go.

It seems as if her trust issues with you actually revolve around your lack of trust in her. Why should you trust her? Trust has to be earned and she has a ways to go in order to gain that trust back.

Right now, you need to let her know that you will stop snooping when she makes her life an "open book" for you. (ie. leave all email open, internet history available, etc) Until you can believe she is doing this, you have a right to snoop. I believe Harley believes in "open book" as a rule in a marraige and I tend to agree.

IMHO, you have to convey this to her and MC in a way that states whatever personal boundary you have in this respect.

i love how wayward spouses think they are entitled to privacy.. i think they lost that privelage when they decided to stray! it is obvious they cannot be trusted with privacy in my opinion.

mlhb

Can you say projecting?

Seriously, my WW said the exact same thing. If she brings it up again, say that trust is an issue for you as well that will be built back up with time. She'll realize that you will stop "invading" her privacy once you verify her A is over. She just feels crappy that you feel she can't be trusted. Just don't argue over it in counseling. Just say trust will be restored in time and leave it at that.

She is babbling. I can hear it all the way over here.

When my then WS brought up the 'trust' factor.... I kicked it back in his face and told him never....never to question my trust. As long as he was a WS, it wasn't a matter of him trusting me, it was a matter of US trusting him.

This was a non-negotiable item. When he ceased becoming a WS, then the trust factor c/b a work in progress. It still is over 3 years later.

How did I come to that conclusion? Simple test.... if my life were on the line at that time, would I trust him to make the right decision? No. I had his beneficiary status lowered and put a 3rd party in to care for our son in case something happened to me. I knew it and did not share that status with him (insurance wise...) until later.

Then I posed the question to him, if his life were on the line, who would he call in....the OW or who? I didn't even put myself in the picture. Without a missing a beat, he said he only trusted me.

I made my point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Tell her that she should never ever "trust" you to turn a blind eye to her secret activities. In the past when you snooped, you found that she was having an affair, so you can ASSURE her that you will do what it takes ALWYS to protect yourself from her until she gains your trust.

To put it simply, as long as she is untrustworthy, you will treat her as such.

If she wants to GAIN your trust, she can start by putting a keylogger on her computer and let you set the passord. She can become an open book. That is how she EARNS trust.


This is a mistake, BIC, because you are not being honest. Tell her that you don't trust her because she is untrustworthy. You would be insane to trust an untrustworthy person.

I would ask what she is going to do to regain your trust. Since she had the affair she is not entitled to be treated with trust. No one is entitled to the right to the privacy to conduct an affair.

People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. What is she hiding, BIC?

She isn't trustworthy DUH!

There is no basis for trust now.

Trust is earned not demanded.

In 2 years you might begin to trust her when she proves herself to be trustworthy.

Blind trust should be gone forevermore!!

She knows that I do not Trust her. But working our way toward recovery I would like to do some things so that she can trust me again.

We are back in the same bed, talking like a normal couple, she doesn't hide her laptop anymore, and this morning she actually kissed me.

I know it will take time for us to regain each others trust again. I would like to know what things I can do to help move along the recovery. Life is getting better around here and we are crawling along slowly to recovery. Trust being the biggest gap right now between us. My IC and I are working on my issues and I just would like to show her a little to help with the recovery.

BIC, you are not the one who has been untrustworthy here, so you can't help her in that regard. Her basis for not trusting you is not valid and cannot be solved by you. In other words, it is untrustworthy behavior to HAVE AN AFFAIR, it is not untrustworthy to CATCH someone having an affair.

So, please ASSURE HER that she will never ever be able to "trust you" to allow her to destroy you behind your back. She does not have the right to the privacy to have an affair. So, if her idea of "trust" is for you to allow her to destroy you behind your back, then ASSURE HER that she should NEVER EVER trust you.

Basically, she is like the bank robber who lectures the police for being "untrustworthy" by snooping and catching her. Do you see that she is just trying to manipulate you into ceasing snooping so you won't catch her?

A person who was SINCERE about recovery would, instead, OFFER you free access to her computer and everything. Your wife is doing the opposite. BECAUSE SHE IS HIDING SOMETHING.

Don't get this backwards, BIC. You are not the untrustworthy one here, so don't get sidetracked down a rabbit hole will lead you nowhere. You are not untrustworthy and you shouldn't pretend like you are. Giving credence to false premises will not help you solve your marital problems. When she blathers on about not trusting you, explain to her that having affairs is untrustworthy, catching someone having an affair IS NOT. You have a RIGHT, as her husband to know each and every word she utters. Tell her this.

What it will take to help in recovery is for her to stop acting untrustworthy and work like a busy beaver to REGAIN your trust. All the work has to be done by her, NOT YOU. You are not the one who had the affair, SHE DID. You cannot restore the trust she broke, only she can do that.

What things is she willing to do to restore trust? Some suggestions would be for her to allow you to put a keylogger on her computer and only you have the password. She should give you full access to her cell phone and any other voicemail or email account she has [work email for sure] She should account to you for her entire day.

That will be a start.

Dr.Harley:

"One of the most common smoke-screens used by unfaithful spouses is to express shock that their spouse would be so distrusting as to ask questions about their secret second life. They try to make it seem as if such questions are an affront to their dignity, and a sign of incredible disrespect. They figure that the best defense is a good offense, and so they try to make their spouses feel guilty about asking too many questions.

I am a firm believer in letting each spouse do as much snooping around as they want. Nothing should be kept secret in marriage, and no questions should be left unanswered. If a spouse objects to such scrutiny, what might he or she be hiding?

Another type of clue is records of communication such as telephone records, letters and e-mail. Most affairs depend on repeated contacts and evidence of those contacts can usually be found. "

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

BIC,

I will simply repeat what Mel and others have already told you but perhaps in different words.

You answer to the trust issue is really simple:
Look in the eye and repeat this in front of the counselor. You see there is a difference between secrecy and privacy. I wish I could recall the definitions that 2Long has used for the two of them, but most people know them.

Does this help you see what the others have been telling you? Hope so.

God Bless,

JL

BIC,

My FWW said the same exact thing as yours.

I just told her quite simply my absolute trust in her opened up the door for her A.

I will never trust you completely again. The more O & H you are with me the more trust you can regain.

She brought up my snooping techniques behind her back to prove the A.

I told her there is a difference in what I did. If you would have been honest and said hey I am had an A none of that would have been necessary.

She responded with something like that was crazy of me to think she should just admit an A. LOL. NO kidding and it would be crazy for me to not investigate.

The bottom line is I dont' have any secrets nor should she.

If she feels the need for secrets I feel the need not to be married.

Oh and as a side note. I think my FWW used some of the things I did almost as a we are even type thing.

I broke your trust you broke mine lets call it even. LOL.

hehee the dreaded moral equivelence argument! Where the WS asserts that catching someone cheating is the moral equivalence of cheating. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> [all law enforcement would be immoral based on this nutty premise] Sadly, many betrayed spouses actually fall for this trick and are intimidated into stopping all snooping, which only enables the cheater to cheat. It astonishes me that people fall for this.

Eyes are open. Beating my thick skull against the wall. Thank you all for pulling out that hammer. I am sure this has been told to me a thousand times, but you are right again. I am only not trusted because she can not be trusted to do the right thing. DUH!!

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mel you and your big terms. I call it the half baked even stevens agrument. It is a load.

I agree with Mel on the rest.

I didn't have an A, I have nothing to hide. My FWW had an A she had something to hide. I don't want to go the reverse route and start lying and hiding things so she can discover them and then we are even.

My sig used to read "An honest man doesn't need a good memory"

I can say this. I wish none of this ever happened. There are things I know I have handled poorly, but snooping to prove what she did is not anything I regret.

I would do it again and again and again.

So you are right and if you get the hint it may be happening again then snoop away.

If she has nothing to hide it won't cause any problems. Open book thats what M is about.

betrayed,

I wanted to bump you because I wrote this thread:

Invasion of Secrecy

in response to this post of yours. It took me a couple of days to put it together when I could....but I thought it would be a good thread on its own too.

Please give us an update. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />