3 weeks ago i begged my W to tell me whats was wrong. After she told me she had been seeing some one at work i asked her if she would stop she told me she could not make any promises. After we went to our first marriage counsling meeting she told us that she would stop seeing him while we tried to figure things out. All allong she is telling me she loves me but their is no fire. she only has it for him. I burst out in tears teeling her if she feels that way just leave now so i could get on with my life. She told me she could not live with herself if she didn't try to make it work. Every day i know she see's him at work and try's not to tell me about it she said it would only hurt you to tell you how i feel. I told her that when she tells me nothing that i image alot worse. Shet still tells me every day that she loves me and wants the fire to come back but it just isn't there. I keep teeling her just be patient it will come back but only after we work on things and you stop seeing him. She says it is only buisness and they must spend atleast an hour every day going over reports and some one else is always their. We talk on the phone every day and spend time at night just talking to each other telling how are day went & small talk. She still does not want to talk about our problem only so much as to say we have one. I am trying not to push & spend time with her doing things she likes. I help her make dinner i do the dishes. I have asked her to teach me how to draw. she is an artist. Last night we sat around and blew bubbles at each other. we are going away for the weekend with out our kids. I hope that this will help. She had just called me to tell me she was sorry for being snappy on the phone with me i appreciateed that call so much. But how do i get that belief that she is realy here for the long hall not just as long as i can keep things light. Am i beeing to impatient plaese help.

She is still having an affair. I went through this, and she is only trying to help her own guilt, and shift the blame to you. I think you should read "love must be tough", if she was sincere she would quit her job...but she won't. good luck.<P>------------------<BR>

Hi LotsOfHope!!!<P>First, let me say that I like you name!!<P>I am sorry for the pain and uncertainty that you are feeling. We all certainly understand and have been there.<P>Have you read Dr Harley's information on this site and have you started to put it into practice...sounds like you two are trying!! <P>A big part of getting through all of this nightmare is understanding the fantasy of an affair...your Wife is very confused and things will take time. <P>Use this time to your advantage...work on all that you can to prepare for when your Wife is ready to deal with the problems within the marriage. <P>Doing things together, etc. is a wonderful milestone you've accomplished..so many of us don't have that!!!!<P>Yes, you will need patience....lots and lots of patience!!!! But love, time and honesty will move things forward (maybe kinda too slow for you, but it's necessary) especially with open communication and learning tools (such as Emotional Needs, POJA, etc.) which will enable you to become partners and a team once again.<P>Hugs and Strength,<P>Sheba

Thanks Sheba<BR> I needed to here a little encouragement. The weekend is over had a great Day & night. This weekend. We walked the beach at night and dinned to till ealry morning. She talked a little & told me that she had felt abandon from me for a long time. I would never call her at work tell her she was beautiful or even talk to her at the end of the day asking how things were. I have found that I did allot to contribute to this. But at work the other M/M would flirt and talk to her about our marriage problems. Joke with her and make her feel special. She has told me that she tried to tell me but I would not listen I feel that is true but she never made it clear that I was making her life miserable. I have hence stop doing anything but read books & talk to coworkers & church about all the things I was doing wrong. They have told me to keep up the work & be patient. Pray every day for guidance and strength. I call her every day now to ask how herday is going. Sent flowers given her body message blown bubbles and talked. Don's know how often to talk but still need to know if she can't tell me she will commit to working on the marriage because she was so hurt for what I have done or if it is feelings for the other M/M. Our marriage counselor has told me he does not think things have gotten that far between them that she would have to quit her job. But listen to these entire stories make me wonder. All I do know is that I love her & appreciate her more to day then in the last 5 years. It's scary that it would take something so painful to make me realize that she is the best gift that god has ever given me. Thanks for Listening. Let me know how do you deal with the bad days.<BR>

LotsofHope,<P>I'm afraid believing in her won't get you where you want to go, but you can put your trust in someone that will never let you down and who will always be at your side no matter what circumstances you face.<P>Let me tell you my story, it's really long but hopefully it should give you some encouragement and God knows you probably need it right now. It starts out really depressing like most stories up here, but you have to keep reading to get to the encouraging part.<P>Last year in august, my wife of seven years told me she was not happy with our marriage and wanted some time to think and get away. She wanted to go spend a week with her sister with the kids. She told me how I had been ignoring her, working too much, didn't spend enough time with the kids, etc. I was immediately aware that I could be about to loose her. I could tell from her tone, words, expressions that there was little love for me left in her. I even volunteered to take a week off from work so I could keep the kids at the house and give her a break (God how I wish I had never offered that). What concerned me was that she wanted to go to her sister's house for a week (Sister lives 1000 miles away). Her sister had recently divorced her first husband due to her affair with a guy she met over the internet. Sister had only known the guy for about five months and married him. Sister had recently been telling my wife about his strange fantasies involving a third person. I had met the guy (had to go to the wedding) and could tell he was bad news. Turns out that this guy had picked up on the fact that wife and I were not getting along and, I believe, began making plans about my wife after we left from the wedding. You see my wife is one of those women that turns every man's head when she enters a room and her sister is so so. Anyway, while she is up there he spends lot's of time with my wife since he was not working and my wife ended up having s_x with him once. During the week I am calling her, worried about how she is doing and feeling. Of course she is distant and I could tell she did not want me calling but to wait for her to call. I spend the whole week putting myself in her shoes for the past seven years, regretting so many things and wondering how I forgot about this wonderful person in my life. I was down on my knees daily, praying like my life depended on it, and to me it really did.<P>She comes home after a week like a changed woman. For the next three months we have the best time of our lives. We talked all the time, spent the weekends doing new things and made love every day, yet at the end of three months, I could tell something was wrong but didn't know what. Of course it was her guilt and it was pushing her to re-live every bad time we had ever had.<P>She started talking about needing some space and thought we ought to sleep in separate rooms for a few days. Days turned into weeks and before long she started talking about how we married too young and how she wanted to try living alone for a few months and put the kids into daycare. As you can imagine, I was literally going out of my mind, not knowing what the real issue was. I kept praying to God daily for some help in the situation, for some progress. After all, I had done a 180 degree turn around and was super-husband and super-dad, but it didn't seem to matter. Well, one night she finally breaks down and tells me about the affair, cried and seemed remorseful but told me there was nothing left for me in her heart. She lied about who she had slept with (told me it was a one night stand w/ someone she kept running into around town and I didn't know them). Well, I left and stayed the night with my parents and fell apart emotionally. The next day wife brought the kids over so she could go to work. Little did I know that she had been taken out to dinner a couple of nights before by a guy that worked at the tanning salon she went to. And, little did I know that when she dropped off the kids on Saturday morning that she would have him over to our house Saturday night and they would have s_x in our bed.<P>The kids and I spent that Saturday night with me and my parents and we took them to a movie the next day while my wife stopped by the tanning salon to have s_x with this guy a second time. When the kids and I came home in the afternoon, wife was at work. She came home acting no different than she had the days previous, not mad at me, but very distant. I was taking her disclosure well for the first two days and keeping my cool but on the third day, I came home form work and lost it. I told her to leave the house, told her I loved her, wanted her back, but not until she was ready to work on the marriage. She left with the clothes on her back and took her car. I called the bank and had the cash card invalidated, she probably had twenty bucks on her. My thought was that she would go to her parents house about four hours away since she had no place to stay and no money. Well, she called at about midnight and said she was at a hotel, said a girlfriend from work had a friend that managed a hotel and that she could stay there for two nights for free, said she understood why I blew up and I said I was sorry. She said she wanted to come see the kids the next day before she had to work, I said OK. Little did I know that it was the guy from the tanning salon that put her up in the hotel.<P>She came by the next day and was in good spirits, I told her I loved her, she told me she was confused and needed space. I had purchased a copy of After The Affair and asked her to read it. She said that her friend had told her she could stay an extra night and she wanted to do that to have some time to think and said she would read the book. She went to the bathroom and I felt compelled to search her purse (don't know why really) and found a card from the tanning salon with the guy's name on it and a hand written phone number on the back. Called it and the guy answers, I asked him if he was having an affair with my wife and he says no, I just helped her find a place to stay the other night because she came into the salon crying, said her husband kicked her out and didn't have any money. I also found some notes she had written indicating that she was going to try two different ways of divorcing me.<P>THE EASY WAY:<BR>- be nice to me<BR>- get me to move out<BR>- negotiate keeping the house<BR>- negotiate keeping the kids<BR>- eventually ask for divorce<P>THE HARD WAY:<BR>- get a lawyer (had already contacted one)<BR>- move out to apartment (had already been looking for one)<BR>- put kids in day care (had already priced them out)<BR>- negotiate keeping the kids (found her proposed visitation schedule)<BR>- file for divorce<P>Who was this woman????? , not the one I married, go figure.<P>After the call to the tan man, I confronted her (didn't tell her I called the guy). She said that she had his card because he had been the one that helped her find a place to stay and just gave it to her if she needed any help since she was in a tight spot. As for the notes, she said that those were things that she had written weeks ago and that she was not feeling that way now. She got very offended that I searched her purse sooooo. I bought it hook line and sinker, even called the guy the next day to apologize for accusing him.<P>Well, I called her that night at the hotel and she sounded good but I was really worried that she was staying the extra night. When I called her on the third night, she sounded irritated so I kept it brief. Little did I know that the guy from the salon was there having s_x with my wife for a third time. I felt the need to call later, so I did and she was polite but kept it short and said she was very tired and just wanted to sleep. I was going crazy emotionally and began trying to find more evidence. It was new year's eve so I was having a few beers during this. I couldn't find anything but wanted to see if she was still at the hotel so I called. I had to know what she intended to do about us. I pushed hard during the conversation and we got into a fight. She eventually said that she really wanted to move out and that it was over. I went nuts and said she was insane. Told her I was calling my parents to have them pick up the kids and keep them there. Then she went nuts and called her dad and he called me telling me not to do it but at five in the morning, my parents were there and we all left for there house.<P>I called my wife at the hotel at 8:00am and told her to meet me at our house. We ended up having a huge fight. She told me that she was sick of me and that all I wanted was a woman to watch the kids, clean the house and f_ck when I wasn't to busy working. I said some pretty bad things myself and told her that if we divorced, I would fight for full custody of the kids. She went to pieces, started bawling and said very sarcastically she would do anything to prevent that. And I quote ... "Ok, I'll do anything you want, what do you want!, I'll stay here and be a good little wife and cook your meals and wash the clothes and f_ck you whenever you want! .... do you want to go upstairs and have s_x right now?!! .... come on!, let's go upstairs and I'll f_ck you!, if that's what you want!!". I replied that that was sick and I didn't want a relationship like that. I told her I wanted her because I loved her. She told me that if there had been any chance of saving the marriage, it was now gone because of my threat to take custody of the children. I was in tears, I gave up, I told her I would go get the kids at my parents house. But when I got there I really wasn't sure if I should take them back. I my mind my wife really had gone completely nuts and I was afraid of what she would do next. It got soooooo ugly, I still get shivers more than a year later when I think about that morning.<P>Her dad called at my parent's house and tried to talk some sense into me. I was dying on the inside, torn apart and didn't know if what I was doing was right or horribly wrong. I finally decided that if it wasn't wrong, it sure wasn't right either. I put the kids in the car and started the long drive home. During that drive, thoughts of suicide were swimming through my head, I knew it was over with my wife. My marriage, my wife, my kids, my life was over as I had know it to be. Until that point I had still had hope of things working out but now it seemed there was NO HOPE WHATSOEVER.<P>It was about two in the afternoon when the kids and I got back. Her parents were on there way to our house and showed up two hours later. The good thing through all of this was that her parents thought she had gone nuts to. Her dad was great, when he got there he suggested to me that I apologize and promise not to threaten taking custody of the children. He told me that my best bet was to buy some time, get her to stay just for a week. He also helped me see that I had a big advantage, we were strapped financially and that would make it difficult for her to get her own place.<P>Sooo, a very small spark of hope welled up within me and as each day passed it grew larger. I was praying almost by the hour. I didn't know what Plan-A was but knew that's what I needed to do. Well my friend, I was nice to her, did every nice thing I could think of that was appropriate and that I knew wouldn't be pushing it. And I did something else to. When ever she would start talking about why it was better to end it, I would list all the positive sides to our marriage. When that happened it wasn't always well received (in fact it was usually met with much anger), but my wife has told me since that it did have an impact on her to such a degree that it made her stop and think about what I had said. She has told me that she knew I was speaking the truth but she hated that I was right and that I was not just giving in and filing for divorce.<P>I distinctly remember two occasions, one where I said things like, "our marriage has had some rough spots but we are not exceptional in that regard, we've built alot together, we have two wonderful boys, we like each other, we have a good time together, you've got a pretty good life here with us, imagine what it would be like on your own". On another occasion I said to her "your acting like a different person but I am willing to wait for the person I married to come back, I don't care about what you did, I love you and I'm your husband and you're my wife, I wish you would stop fantasizing that I am going to file for divorce because I'll never do it. I married you because I love you and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with you. If you really want to end this marriage then you will have to be the one to pull the trigger".<P>This went on for a little more than a month during which I was an emotional wreck but tried to hide it from my wife. I was calm and collected most of the time she was around, always looking for the next thing I could do to make her feel good about herself. I had to watch how many things I did for her that were her usual responsibilities because there were a few times that I felt I was making her feel guilty (not a good thing when you are trying to be the other person's source of positive reinforcement). I would tell her how great she looked, took more of an interest in what she liked and her tastes, bought her things but not too many (didn't want to look like I was trying to buy her love). I listened to her for anything clues as to what I could do to make her feel special. I even called my sister and asked her if she remebered anything I couldn't that my wife liked or was interested in. She had mentioned she wanted to paint the dining room (done the next day). I brought flowers home (for the house). I even told her I had been given tickets to the symphony and asked her if she would go (I bought the best seats, cost me $200). She said yes and we had a great time together. Anything I could possibly do to make her feel accepted and special, I did it, no holds bar.<P>Well, one night, while in the kitchen, she turns to me and says she has been thinking about us and says she has been thinking about the things I've said. She says "you're right, we have built alot together and I do want to work on our marriage". She smiled at me and we hugged. After that she went back to doing the dishes and I was in such shock, I didn't know what to do. I came up from behind her and rubbed her shoulders and told her how I have longed for her to say those words. I told her how much I loved her. We kissed for what seemed like twenty minutes and one thing lead to another and we ended up in bed after being apart for two months.<P>It wasn't all roses after that though, I'll be honest. Her sister started calling her crying about how things were going wrong in her marriage (go figure). This guy was really a creep, it sounded like he was abusing my wife's sister. Well, my wife figured that their marriage would be breaking apart soon and panic set in. She knew the truth would come out so she finally told her mother who she had the affair with (nobody but wife knew about the second affair... yet). Her mom insisted that she tell me who it was or she would do it. She did and it was very painful, I got to here about her sister and the creep husband for the next six months as one bad thing after another happened in their marriage. The creep was arrested when he broke the leg of a two year old girl (it was my wife's sisters little girl) (God she really married a monster). <P>Well, after my wife's almost forced disclosure, I asked her again if she had really had an affair with the guy from the tanning salon, she denied it again. A month later (I don't know why really) I got a hair up my butt and decided I would call the guy and ask him again. You see I had actually been in the salon on several occasions after I made that first phone call and we joked about it even. I actually thought during that time that this guy wasn't so bad. Well, I called him while my wife was at the store and told him that he at least owed me the truth. Took a while but he eventually came clean admitting to the incident that occurred at the tanning salon.<P>When the wife got home boy did I have a surprise for her! It was amazing, I sat there for thirty minutes telling her that I knew there was more to her story and I wanted her to come clean (didn't give her a clue as to what I knew). She sat there and asked me questions desperately trying to figure out who I had talked to and what I had learned. I said nothing and eventually she admitted to having the SAME incident at the tanning salon with the guy. I don't know how they did it but they both had the same story. I was convinced that I had been told the whole truth.<P>A month later, my wife takes the kids to go visit her parents for the weekend. Things had been going very well between us and my wife couldn't have been doing a better job of being understanding of my feelings. For some reason (I don't know why really) I got a feeling there was more to the story. Soooo, I drive to the tanning salon and ask to talk to the creep. I ask him to put his own safety and feelings aside for the moment and tell me everything that happened, if not for me and my wife at least for our marriage and the kids. I told him I needed to know the truth because I needed to know if I was still living with a liar.<P>Well I got the truth, probably more than I wanted to know. There were indeed three occasions (wife and him had said only one), there was oral intimacy for both parties involved (wife said there was none), and I got to find out from the guy that he did my wife in my own bed. I am still amazed that no assault and battery ensued during the conversation.<P>When I got home I had to call the wife. Our prior conversation about lies was nothing compared to this one. But again she only confirmed what he had already said without being told what I knew, maybe she added a few small points he had not mentioned. So again it was painful, the trust dissolved once more. I have battled with seeking some kind of justice in all of this. I think everyone that is betrayed has a right to justice but it comes at a cost. <P>Someone said, given a choice between justice and peace, I choose peace.<P>So my wife and I are recovering from what has seemed like such a horrible year in our lives. But I can say that out of the ashes, new life does form and our marriage has become more joyful that it has ever been. We communicate now, spend more time together now, still make love every night even after a year (and don't intend to stop that pattern). God has been the biggest factor through all of this, working in so many ways in both of us. It is so odd to think back to those time when things were going so wrong when what we have today is so great. I look back during the darkest times and realize that God was there by my side every second and I had no reason to doubt him or his plan for my life.<P>I said I would be honest so I will be. I still deal with what my wife did and there are times when it still tortures me. It does get better with time, the memories of the ugliness fade but don't go away completely, they are eventually overlaid with newer, happier ones instead.<P>It is my hope that my experience can give you hope in your dark hours. May God be with you. And please realize that God is using this (not causing it) to bring the two of you closer to Him.<P>Sincerely,<P>James<p>[This message has been edited by JamesS (edited October 11, 1999).]

for the record, snooperhubby, you are mostly right, but you only seem to show up with negative thoughts and feedback. Why is that? <BR>You still sound bitter about whatever your situation is/was?

Thanks James <BR>For telling your story I keep thinking how long will this nightmare end. I don't know how you did all the things you did & where you got your strength. I have been praying to god every day to please take hold of our lives & make something good come from this. I do know that I did take her for granted for so long. I feel that I am being punished every day since I have found out bought them. & To know that they see each other every day at work. It kills me I hope that I can keep given like you did & not let it die. But at times I want to give up & run & hide. I was wrong for the things that I did but was I that wrong to deserve this. I have a prayer that I read every day when I think that things are looking bleak or I am just feeling blue. <BR>Trust the Lord completely don't ever trust yourself. In every thing you do put god fist and he will direct you and crown your efforts with success. Don't be conceited, sure of your own wisdom instead trust & reverence the Lord & turn your back on evil. Follow my advice my son always keep it in mind & stick to it Obey me & live guard my words as your most precious possessions write them down & keep them deep within your heart<P>Thank James for telling your story mine seems so much simpler but still the thought that she may leave at any whim drives me nuts & keeps my heart in fear every day. Thanks for your prays I do need them. Good luck on your full recovery & thank you again<BR><P>------------------<BR>

LotsOfHope- Like that name. I am in a similar situation with my H. H and OW don't work together but across the street from each other and he has to see her once a month. The only advantage I have is that OW is getting married this weekend and maybe that will be enough to jolt him back to some form of reality. H is very sad and depressed over losing her and sometimes I don't think we will ever get through it but there is a book called Torn Asunder by Dave Carder that is very helpful in letting me know that what he is going through is normal in these cases. I am glad you are making an effort to spend time with W. I have tried that but each time my H just cries or is all depressed. At least she is beginning to open up a little. Are you going to counseling? It has helped us some but what I need are basics-- like you said--how do I believe in him? How do we trust again? I don't know how long this is going on for you but it has been only 2 1/2 months since I have known. It is a long road but my favorite quote is Never Never Give Up - I think it is from Winston Churchill. Encourage one another and build each other up..that is what we are here for.<P>------------------<BR>Faithjoy

Lots,<P>Okay, I am a W who had an affair with a man at work. I still work there, and so does he. My H doesn't want me to quit, but we are planning to move sometime next year - that is, if we make it. And let me tell you this, if we don't make it, it WON'T be because of the OM. If we don't make it, it WILL be because he and I realized that the affair was a symptom of much bigger problems. And those problems didn't go away when the affair ended. I suspect that is the case in your story, and in James story too. There are bigger problems than the infidelity.<P>Also, my H cheated in 1987. I have realized that infidelity is a crying out... SEE ME, HEAR ME... and in my case, whether anyone believes it or not... SAVE ME from myself.<P>I figure it this way: there is always hope until there is no hope left. My H and I are struggling daily with our marriage. We love each other. There is no question of that. We don't trust each other, we are not "in love" in that romantic sense. We are both 40, and at a crux in our lives. We are both in our first and only marriage, and we both want something more from life. <P>I have learned a few things from all of this. First, honesty is a must. If one isn't honest, it's pretty tough to hold the marriage together. But it CAN be done. Secondly, there is no such thing as a 'soul mate' or that unrealistic 'romantic love' that we all think we should have. Third, life is hard. Stick around here long enough and you will be shocked at something you read - guaranteed. My little 3 month affair, which was a HUGE deal for my family, is nothing compared to the STD's, pregnancies, emotional and physical abuse that goes on between many couples here. <P>I like your name too... I hope you believe it. There is always hope, but it isn't gonna be easy.<P>Best wishes...<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

I think your wife must get a new job. The trouble is, you can't demand she get a new job. If you do, you will set yourself up as the enemy. <P>It really is necessary both for her to get away from the guy and for you to work through your feelings about this relationship. If you have to deal with her working with him and knowing she is seeing him every day it will be very difficult for you to deal with. <P>Really, really work on avoiding lovebusters and meeting her needs (if she'll let you). Don't try to fix everything at once. This will take lots and lots of time. Remember that she is very confused and focus on being her very best friend at this time. Don't insist she share her feelings, but make sure when she does you respond in a way that makes her feel safe about sharing them.

Hi LotsofHope -<P>I think that I can help you here...<P>It's all a matter of perspective, I think!!<P>You said yourself that she felt abandoned by you for years, right? So, that should be an example that her recent "involvement" was certainly not something she just ran out and did...she was hurting for a very long time and something just "gave". <P>What she wanted and needed was you!! Now you have realized a lot and what she wanted and needed could be accomplished, but it will take time for her to see and believe that. This is perfectly normal!! After all, it took a long time coming and it will not be a quick response to your gestures.<P>She has fears, too!! She does not want to go back to feeling unloved and alone.<BR>She will need to be reassurred with consistant behavior by you...nothing extraordinary...just do and say things that you can keep up with for the rest of your marriage. Don't behave in ways that you cannot continue.<P>Do not look for promises or guarantees, she is unable to give them. Just like in her mind there are no guarantees that you will continue to share yourself with her and keep showing the love and affection she has craved for so long.<P>You might "know" that you will continue this "aware" behavior - but she doesn't and she won't until she experiences it for awhile. Just cuz you tell her - that doesn't make it fact!! That works both ways, she could tell you she's done with OM but that won't make it fact till you see and "feel" it for yourself for awhile......get what I mean?<P>I think that you should forget about concentrating on OM and that part of things and use your energies on learning the "tools" like Emotional Needs, POJA, etc. and most importantly the honesty and communication techniques that are needed for a great relationship.<P>The implementation of all this and the sharing with each other will be what brings you two out of this mess and create the best marriage you ever thought possible.<P>For those bad days?...You won't have too many if you keep the focus where it should be...you and your wife!!!<P>Forget OM - he does not matter...he was just an escape route from her lonliness and her feeling bad.....with you now taking care of those things, there will be no need for that escape route!!!<P>Keep being a great Husband.....it is not a one time deal to behave attentively....it is a constant way of life you should have with your partner. Always remember that!!!<P>Hugs and I have a feeling you two will be just fine.<P>Sheba

Thank you Sheba<P> I wish I could have read your letter last night. Let me tell you what stupid thing I did. We had a wonderful evening. I gave her a body massage to release tension. For about 45 min. after word I gave her a kiss good night & told her I loved her. She came over to me cuddled with me and then we made love. A very good and long session. I again leaned over and gave her a kiss & told her I loved her. I would have been happy with just holding her. Threw the night I kept having dreams of the OM it haunted me all night long. In the morning she got up to take a shower & I went down stairs & looked in her purse for a phone number of the OM he to is married and I am struggling with should I tell his wife so she knows that her husband is chasing my wife. But what did I find was a love note from 4 days ago to her telling her that he was so happy to get her page. That he is so happy that they are lover's best friends & that he is looking foreword to being alone with her. That he will never leave her alone or make her feel abandon. My heart leaped from my chest to the floor. Read it a gain & again trying to find out if she ad lead him to believe that they might be. I was in such pain & shock that set the note on the counter & grabbed the checkbooks & went to kids room gave them a big hug & told them that daddy loved them. I went in to get dressed told her that I had to go to work early that I loved her & good bye. She saw in my face that I was upset she asked me what she did I told her nothing I just had to go. She grabbed a towel & ran out of the house to stop me she found me crying in my car. She asked me to come in I told her I did something very wrong that I just had to leave. She asked again I told her that I had found a note from OM telling her that he loved her so very much. She said that she is note responding to the note but kept it because he means something to her. I don't know what to do. She tells me that she is here and trying but cant commit to anything. That she wants the love she had for me to come back. The love that said says that she would do anything for me. Now she can't even commit to tell me we will work this out only to say that I will try. Am I fooling myself in thinking that all I have to do is deposit more love units and not pull them out. How do I deal with my pain without being truthful to her. And how do I get her to tell me the truth and not show the deep pain it causes me. I hope when we see our counselor tomorrow that he can help. On day I feel good the next I want the world to stop so I can just get off for a wile. My friends tell me to leave & try again with someone else. I don't want to I have heard much worse stories then mine that have worked. Is it always so painfull. When does the pain stop & I can see that she to is fighting for us. I see little things that give me hope but then there are those little things that she does to remind me that she may not be there tommorow. Thanks for listening.<BR><P>------------------<BR>

LotsofHope,<BR>Your story is almost identical to mine. Discovery was in mid-May, we went to counsleing thru June when I discovered them still contacting one another. When I confronted her about it, she left on July 2 moving to a hotel for a week which he paid for, the into an apart. in which he moved in also. They lived together, even opening up joint checking and charge accounts, till 2 weeks ago, when he dumped her. <P>She is slowly coming back to me. She kissed me and hugged me goodbye this morning for the first time in 3 months(she is living in the apartment by herself.)<P>So don't give up hope. I owuld recommend notifying om's wife as pressure from her may cause him to run back home. This is what happened in my case, om was to take my w on a cruise and his w said if he took her he would no longer she his family so he dumped my w. I also think it ws because my w started to threaten to take the kids from me and I can't see a guy wanting to raise somebody else's kids!<P> HAng in there, find a minister to talk to and believe in the Lord.

Lotsofhope,<P>Are you talking about my wife? Lots of similarities here. My wife has told me the same things - no fire for me but she wants it to come back. She never told me anything was wrong with our marriage; if she did i totally missed it. <P>I finally asked her what was wrong last Dec. She let me have it big time and my world crashed in on me. Two months later I found out she was seeing another man. I found several hundred emails between them. It ripped my heart to shreads - and I thought our conversation in Dec was bad. <P>Here I am 8 months after discovery and I am still not in the marriage I want. The passion my wife desires for me still isn't there yet. But, I will say things are better. It's just going to take a very, very, very long time to heal. <P>If you are openly communicating with your wife, keep it up. Eventhough it hurts to no end, open communication is a biggie in getting through this.<P>Going to counseling is great. My wife still won't go, she doesn't think we need to.<P>And YES, keep depositing those love units. Give lots of Plan A. In time, she will see that you are the one that she desires. You can't make her love you, but you can certainly help her realize that you love her.<P>This isn't going to get better overnight. You will learn what real patience is through this. Time is on your side.<P>Hang in there, <P>SHA<P>JamesS - Incredible story - I believe you can help a lot of folks here with what you have recovered from. Well done.<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited October 12, 1999).]

Sir Hurts A lot<P> Thanks for your story. I have read so many story that I don't wont to be in. I just cannot believe that it can take so long. I must be living in a fantasy world. I have heard so many different opinions from every one I know. On what to do. One of my closest friends tells me to use tough love and tell her to stop all contact with OM. My other friend tells me to stay close keep going to counseling tell her you love her and you are here for the long haul. I just can't see how people can stay in this hellhole for a year or two. I do know that she still loves me or she would have left but it hurts that she cant trust me yet to tell me when she has non business contact with him. Like a letter she got. Or that she called him & said she missed him. She has also asked me to bring some normality back to the house. I read that I must help fill her needs we just talked on the phone while I was working on this letter. I told her if she could tell me when she sees him not dealing with business to please tell me and I will work hard on bring back some normality to our home. I hope she understands that I need to rebuild trust & to do that I must be able to believe that she is telling me the truth. I did call today & asked her out for date on Friday to see a dinner & movie She said sounds good. I hope that I can push down those bad feeling days & be joyful around her as much as possible but it is hard sometimes. I guess I am thinking to hard about things. I hope that I did not take to many love units away today but will need to work on more deposits. Thank you for telling me those things do get better. I will try & remember that she is here trying & not here at all. Thanks for all of your letters they keep me going when I feel that I just want to die at times. But the good news is that I have lost 28 lb. got about 5 more to go. <BR>

Hi there LotsofHope -<P>Now, don't take this wrong but you have me chuckling......<P>It's been only 3 weeks!!!! and you're going on about things taking so long..... <P>I know that every minute of this seems like a week in itself....I've got a way to help you with this, though - never fear!!! LOL!!<P>Think of "time" in this perspective... every time that you start dwelling on how long this is taking....picture your wife feeling alone and unloved and even more confused and sad than you are and how she endured that for years!!!<P>I am not saying this to make you feel bad...I am saying this to help you to understand how relative time actually is and how each person must gain strength through the time that it takes.<P>I know that you just want to get past all this and feel safe and secure with the relationship....gotta allow her time!!!! <P>My God, man......you are making love, etc.......ENJOY IT!!!!! <P>I told you that things are going excellently for you two.....RELAX a little!!!<P>I know that things will come up that hurt ( like seeing the note) but since your wife is going along with your attentiveness and especially with the sample of that fact by her chasing you to your car....this show that she CARES ABOUT YOU!!!!!<P>About that note....did you happen to realize that this guy is playing to her pain.. Meaning: She felt abandoned, etc. and MR Married Wonderful is repeating those same words back to her.<P>Did you catch that? Do you see what this guy is doing? He's playing on her pain and fears...that is why she got caught up with him in the first place I bet.....sounds like a smoothie to me.<P>Waste of your brain space to even have him in your thoughts....there's nothing genuine about him from what I can tell.<P>STOP worrying about him (it!!!) and think of your wife and you. You gave that OM power this morning...you let him into your head and allowed him to push out all the LOVE and AFFECTION between you and your wife that you both experienced from the night before.<P>Do you want to do that? I don't think so!!!!<P>From your wife's reaction to your mood, she sounds like a very loving, caring person....you are very lucky and I really don't think that she took your behavior as a lovebuster. If anything she just heaped more guilt and pain (your pain) onto herself.<P>Patience and love.....<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<BR>

Thanks Sheba<P> I do love hearing from you. It helps to know that you have been going threw these things for years. I guess I am a little impatient. How do you deal with those lost feelings. I wake up in the middle of the night & love to watch her sleep. Its like she is the angle I married. I also know that I must give her space & time to deal with her daemon's she has. Do I just try not to think of the OM at all? Or will that bring resentment from me to her. I have read all the Steps to recovery & know that she is in withdraw. And I had hoped that the OM would back off like they said he would. I will try to put those things out of my mind & talk to our counselor about them. I have found something that we both seem to enjoy that helps me not think of the problems we are facing every day. I have bought a book and every couple of nights we both read it aloud to each other. I have also been reading books on body massages & have given her 2 full body messages in the last 2 weeks. She has really enjoyed them. Last night during the middle of the night she has given my hugs while I was sleeping. I thanked god for that hug it made my night. It has also helped a lot to write to every one here & hear their thought & what they have gone threw. I just can't believe that it could take so long to feel safe again. I guess I must deal with each day 1 day at a time. If you ever need to talk about how you are doing please let me know. I would like to help you if a can. <P>Thanks again Sheba LOL<P>I am trying to relax now. <P>Hugs,<P>LotsofHope<BR><P>------------------<BR>

Hi LotsofHope -<P>Late here too!!! Sorry...<P>I'm glad if anything about what I say or my story helps you or anyone....I have learned a lot since May when I found MB and since H won't talk about anything, it's nice to share some of what I have learned with someone!!!<P>I think that you and your wife have been given a second start here...whether that is by God or whatever!! What I mean is - Your marriage was not what it should have been....and your wife's choice of escape to happiness and fulfillment was like a turning point or a fork in the road. It's up to you both to choose whether to join together as true partners and take the same road...or take separate ones. <P>I hope that doesn't offend you - I only mean that maybe it was needed to expose the seriousness of the marriage erosion.<BR>This doesn't (in any way) say that she was right to do what she did....absolutely not!!<P>But it has to make one wonder if this was the one thing that God knew would get through to you enough to open your eyes to your love for your wife...<P>When you wrote that you look at her while she's sleeping and it's like she's your angel.....did that occur to you before this nightmare? Would you have bought books or even looked into any relationship stuff if this event had not happened?<P>See what I mean? Hmmmm - this is making me think of a good thread topic...Watch for it - it could prove interesting. <P>Anyway, I think that you and your wife both love and care only for each other.<BR>Something "gave" in her and pushed her into a mess....This "mess" shocked the poop out of you and scared the pants off ya!!! That's why you are wanting to feel safe so intensely....You didn't have a clue that your wife had anything so horribly painful going on until you felt some of it yourself.<P>Does that make sense?<P>You ask if you should try not to think of OM at all or if resentments will come out in some form against your wife...tell me what it is that you keep thinking about in regards to him and maybe I can better address it with you.<P>The way I look at it is that he (like the laydies in my H's life) is just an escape route.....I don't attach anything more to it (or them). My desires and wants are strictly about my H and who those OW's are or what they look like or ANY connections with them and H don't mean a thing....mostly because I feel that it's a fantasy and that's where it belongs...call it putting them in perspective, by realizing that they had/have no part in MY life - they exist only in H's "world" and as he has said to me many times...."It has nothing to do with you"<P>Sounds strange - I know - but upon some deep reflection about his words, he's right in a way!! Only two things can come out of my concerning myself with those laydies : 1) I acknowledge they have a role in my life and marriage and/or 2) I give them power in my life and marriage.<P>I am not willing to do either.......<P>They are like a paved road to me..inanimate objects that H just happened to tread on when he chose the wrong route of escape.....<P>Is that too weird.....or do you sorta get it?<P>Don't forget that I've been doing this a long time...so I have had the time to put things in some kind of perspective for myself.<P>OK, I am done babbling....LOL!!<P>Let me know what thoughts you have about OM and we'll see what we can do about them.......OK?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Thanks Sheba<P> Thanks for writing me back. What I mean by do I put the OM out of my mind. Is that they work together every day. & See each other. He is still chasing her. Leaving her notes & telling her that he loves her & wants her to leave me for him. She says that she has asked him to stop. Do I believe her when she tells me these things? Because she did not tell me about the note because she said it would only hurt me. I told her I would rather know where I stand then to have her come back one day & just say goodbye. I wish I knew that she just cant commit to me right now because our problems not because she is holding the OM in the wings while she is trying to decide where she wants to be. I do know that it has done me no good to try & ask her things about him it just upsets her & I feel that I am withdrawing love units. So that what I mean do I just hide the pain to make her convertible to talk about him with me. Its just hard not knowing what she wants I do believe she still does not know either. So I keep working on things the best way I know how. Thanks for you time I do appreciate it. <P>Big Hug <P> LotsofHope<BR><P>------------------<BR>