Suppose you find yourself in this situation - something your S told you years ago, something that encouraged the relationship between the two of you to grow and eventually led to your M, turned out to be a lie, and you find this out quite by accident (i.e. the S doesn't know that you know). How would you handle this situation?

I guess it depends on how I felt about the lie. If it was bad enough (say... he'd been convicted of child molesting or some other major deal breaker) I think we'd end up divorced. There are some drop dead deal breakers.

If it was something pretty important like say a pregnancy that wasn't -- and then later turned into a false "miscarriage" -- I'd probably let her know that I knew and how I felt and then see if the marriage was recoverable. (Assuming this isn't one of your drop dead deal breakers.)

If it was something that's kind of water under the bridge now ... like her best friend that you were more interested in had a crush on you and you would have liked her better but chose your wife instead because you thought you had no chance with the best friend... *shrugs* Water under the bridge.

It all just depends, ya know?

Mys

The first time my FWW cheated on me was just before we got engaged. The lies I'm referring to concern details of that A (lies of omission), and some of the stuff she told me that convinced me to make another go at our relationship.

Yes, I know I should have walked away back then because of that A, but unfortunately that doesn't help me now. And our M, well what's left of it, seems to be going quite well at the moment. I'm not sure if I really want to rock the boat, particularly while we're still bailing it out after her last A, but hanging on to this "new" information about that period in our lives doesn't seem very "open and honest" to me.

What's the downside of talking to her about it?

Mys

Edited to add:

The boat is all ready rocking. She just doesn't know it. It seems telling her why her balance seems off (you seem off balance some) would make more sense.

I might end up driving her away at the very time I should be doing things that draw her closer. She doesn't like to be reminded of the bad things she's done, and tells me that it seems like I'm "rubbing it in" whenever they come up in our talks.

As far as she's concerned, nothing is wrong...yet. This revelation came to me just last night.

MiM wrote:"The first time my FWW cheated on me was just before we got engaged. The lies I'm referring to concern details of that A (lies of omission), and some of the stuff she told me that convinced me to make another go at our relationship."

The fact that you knew of the affair and decided to continue toward marriage was a legitimate choice.

Her lies of omission and the fact that she then deceived you by convincing you to continue under false pretense, represents a malicious act, regardless of her motivations. The simple fact is that your choice to marry her might have been different had you known the whole truth.

Having recently dealt with something of a similar nature with a friend, my recommendation is that you confront her.

Over the long term, I believe you will find that BOTH of you facing the facts will allow you to feel like at least a portion of your choice has been returned to you.

Your wife needs to clean up her mess. You need to insist that she does, and that she take full responsibility for this heinous act.

Gimble

Well, I'll tell you. This is one of those sticky problems you two seem to have with each other.


Basically, you both try to manipulate the other person's reactions by not telling them things that you think might bother the person, cause anger, drive the other person away, get someone in trouble, etc. Oh sure, you each have different reasons but the end result is the same.

You withhold information as a way of avoiding the your spouse's reaction. She does the EXACT same thing to you.

There is a huge difference in trying to provoke anger (name calling for example) and giving someone bad news that might make that person angry. What you have is information about you, your feelings, how you're relating in the relationship, etc. that is ultimately going to affect her.

She gets to choose how she reacts to "bad news" -- just like you get to choose how you react to the "bad news" you just received. Feelings are just what they are. You're angry. She might become angry. What really matters is what happens and all you can do is control yourself and your behavior. As long as you are sharing the information in a sensitive, honest, and non-provoking way (no angry outbursts) then you are following radical honesty. Where her feelings take her after that is her side of the fence to tend.

If she needs space after hearing the bad news, then she needs space. You aren't driving her anywhere. She's just reacting in some way (possibly not a very functional or GOOD way) to bad news.

And, by the way, stuffing this down is you not reacting to your bad news in a positive way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.


Right. But, something is wrong, isn't it?

Tell your wife. Stop trying to manage her feelings or reactions. Keep your boundaries so that you aren't abused (don't let her yell at you or retaliate).

Just as a general rule I'll say this: I've never once seen a situation on this board where I thought just a little more dishonesty was what was needed to really help the situation.

Mys

Although I believe it important the past lies of omission be discussed with your wife. I believe exploring why you fear confronting her about them be addressed here first.

Jo

"She doesn't like to be reminded of the bad things she's done....."

Who does? That is why ethical people try to do the right thing.

Good points.



I will tonight, thanks.

Novel thought....."then you shouldn't have done them!"

If she can't talk to you about this when presented to her in a loving, helpful manner then I wonder when she's going to make the decision to have affair no. 3

MiM,

""I've never once seen a situation on this board where I thought just a little more dishonesty was what was needed to really help the situation.""

You can't really argue with this.

Inform her of what you have discovered. Unemotionally. Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts. No commentary.

Then wait for the response if there is one.

It will then be out in the open.

IMHO

Hi MiM:

Remember this?


At the time you thought you knew what it was. Maybe it was something else. Whatever your discovery, my gut feel is that your wife has been not only aware of it, but has been living with it for years and years. As I told you both at the time, I believed that your wife was guarding something. I do not recall that she ever denied it exactly, more like danced around.

Anyway, I still think that. You may have discovered what it is. Living in fear makes people do strange things. Perhaps if this is the deal, removing the thorn from the lion's paw will have a cathartic effect on your relationship, perhaps.

Maybe. . . This is just a shot in the dark based on gut feel and nothing more.

Larry

Yep, and isn't this the way it normally is with BS's. They get scared that anything they do is going to cause the WS to cheat again, or to leave. As if we really have any control over it.

It is this false belief that keeps the BS in a place of fear. Stuff it, don't ask about it...all the while resentment is building.

MiM, you can't lose what you don't have in the first place, however you have everything to gain by confronting your fears and really coming to terms with what you are willing to stuff in the name of keeping the peace.

I agree completely with Gimble on how to handle this, and that some personal fears need to be faced as well.

I know all about conflict avoiding and the willingness to go against my own judgements and idea of what is right to avoid being faced with some one leaving me. I had it all backwards.

That's the way it is when we are betrayed in this manner...lies of ommision indeed.

MiM,

I'd venture to guess more than not, pre-affair, avoiding confrontation of your wife due to your fear was the norm for your marriage dynamic, no?

Nope. On the contrary, in fact. I think we were perhaps a bit *too* confrontational.

I see. So now you're trying to find a balance there, post-affair. But what Weaver wrote is right on. You really don't have that much control of her actions regardless if you confront her about the past lies or not.

I think whats important is you face your fear of talking with her about them, and be aware of the way in which you approach her. In a manner of love and concern of the health of your marriage recovery.

Actually this is the best time, if any, to lay all cards out on the table. Creating a clean slate to start that new marriage on, a baselining if you will.

No one here says it's going to be easy. But nothing worthwhile ever is.

Jo

We spoke tonight. It didn't go as well as I hoped. She said that she couldn't remember much about the time I was referring to. She couldn't remember me calling her (that was the first time that I proposed to her), she couldn't remember her response, she couldn't remember anything else from that time that would have helped to clear up some of the questions I had. Questions that, interestingly enough came to mind because of a few details about that very time that she let slip a few weeks ago.

I've decided to set this aside for the moment. It's not something that's significant enough to cause me to walk away from this M.

I agree with Larry - when talking to "Tangled", I can't help but feel that she's trying to hide something. We talked about this, and she said that she has difficulty putting her feelings into words, and what I was perceiving as evasiveness on her part was her actually struggling to say what she really meant.

Man,
Are you sure you want to "set it aside?" Sure, it may not be enough to cause you to walk away from your M, but is it something that is going to eat at you? From getting to know you a little on these boards, I can't help but ask this question.

For you to say, it is not enough to cause me to walk away from this M, might indicate that you have some fear that that is the issue at stake.

What is the difference between "difficulity putting feelings into words" and "evasiveness"? Is it motive that makes the difference?, is it effort?, is it willingness to spend the time reflecting on the past?
just wondering,
Lake

Question:

Has tangled been to individual counseling?

Larry