Hi to all the wonderful folks here at marraige builders...

Just so you all know...I'm in a good place!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />) I'm happy. I'm in a new home. I'm legally separated. I've been on a bunch of dates and had coffee with a bunch of men from match. Most of all I'm feeling ready and more and more settled.

I'VE MET SOMEONE SPECIAL!!!!!!

It is a LDR. I've never met a fellow who can relate to me spiritually like this ever and shares so many common interests and values. We do have some differences but so far they seem inconsequential.


Similarities: He "moves" me. We talk about our spiritual beliefs and they're so similar...he appreciates nature, people, history, love, kindness, compassion, cleanliness, class, health, excercise, friends, his dog, passionate beliefs, loves his mom, values, morals, honor, he is hard working. He raised his children on his own for 7 years after his x left him for another. His second x abanodoned him emotionally, physically, spiritually...and moved out...he tried to bring her back 7 times...therapy etc....she just blamed him and never took responsibility for any role. He says he asked God to please bring a last and final woman into his life that could be honest and true with herself. He believes it may be me...

He is a Messanic Jew and a proud blue collar worker who was a Marine for 4 years. I admire him so. I was married to a material wayward lawyer who was afraid to read let alone study the bible. I was an object to him.


Well...I like him a lot....I will meet him after several months of daily very lengthy phone calls... for a day. He was invited to return to my sister's home for the night (sleeping on the couch) in order to have another day to spend with me. After thinking about it...he believes it is "disrespectful" to me to do that. He believes that he is "honoring" me by not doing that. Don't you think that he would go to my sisters if he really wanted to? Is that really honoring me or just being uncomfortable with the familiarity of being submerged into a "family" type situation already. I guess I may be making too big a deal of it.

Hmmmm....any ideas?

Lamplight

Hi Lamplight. LWP? Sorry, I'm a little confused about your username. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

With the limited information I have regarding your personal situation and his, I would say based on what you did write that he could be very apprehensive. Two failed Ms (regardless of fault) likely has him VERY gun shy. I know I would be. Also keep in mind that he wouldn't be as comfortable around your family as you are -obviously. While staying at your sis's house might not seem like a big deal to you, he could be the type who feels like he's intruding despite all of your reassurances to the contrary. Again, that's kind of how I am. It might take him some time to warm up to people. He might be a little intimidated and worried about the kind of impression he would make on your family, and consequently you. Peoples perceptions change when they're exposed to each other for an overnight visit.

In short, given that this was the first time you two had physically met, I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over his lack of enthusiasm for an innocent overnight. It's the sort of scenario that could be a little overwhelming for him this early into a burgeoning R.

Thank you Seabird!!.......I like your name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I appreciate your opinion and believe your right. Do you think it is a real big deal that he is saying it is all about being a gentlemen versus being a bit apprehensive? You know what I mean...honest with themselves?

I'm not bent btw.

Thank you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)

Thanks for the compliment on the name, and sorry if I insulted you with the "bent" comment. I didn't mean to imply that you necessarily are bent out of shape - just that you shouldn't be if you were.

How's that for an awkward, ham-fisted attempt to remove my e-foot from my e-mouth? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I wouldn't discount his rationale. I won't presume to know what his motivations are. He could be totally honest and sincere with his explanation, or he could be making a lame excuse.

Has he shown interest in making future plans with you? I would concentrate on that element of the situation; how interested he is in you as an individual right now. Comfort and familiarity with your family can and should come later assuming you guys continue to hit it off.

It also depends on how your sister acted around him. Sometimes in their effort to "help", family and friends can add too much pressure to a tentative R. If they kept hearing from you how much you like this man, they might have been a little too encouraging to him which can have the opposite intended effect.

Year before I met my W, I went out a few times with one particular girl. I was hesitant for reasons of my own, but this girl was a lot more aggressive about pursuing something more permanent. After several weeks I met her out at dinner with her family for her dad's b-day. They were really warm and friendly. Too warm and friendly for my tastes. I was really, really uncomfortable with the situation. I don't know how to explain it. They just seemed too pleased to have me around and I couldn't understand it given that they had just met me. Anyway, my new GF (don't even know if I can call her that) sensed my discomfort and she was upset by it. My failure to embrace her family with the level of enthusiasm equated to rejection in her mind. The R whithered as a result and we "broke up" within a few weeks.

Honestly, I'd back off of this and concentrate your efforts on just the two of you for right now. My $.02. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think one day together is enough as a starting point. Inviting him to stay with your sister is weird. What if he doesn't like you (or v.v.) the minute he sees you - he would still need to go spend the night with your sister (so to speak)? That'd be spooky.

I always believe in keeping first meetings short and hopefully sweet.

AGG

Seabird...I like your two cents and really appreciate you taking the time to further explain your reasoning!! Thanks a lot.

AGG...generally you're right however, this great fellow and I have already had many, many, frankly some even intimate phone calls on the phone..."spooky"...would be correct if we hadn't already been building a strong connection over the phone. I do understand your point.

Seabird and you are making great points...I just really long to spend as much time with this man as possible...I'm falling hard and fast for him...I've never met anyone like him...ever! My heart hurts. He says things and I wonder is he real, is this real? How can I find out more? LDR is difficult I guess.

He is considering moving close...I'm glad...he says that will give me the time I need. He is just a dream of sorts...he has a few quirks...but that make me laugh today and I think they're endearing...like talking a lot...lol...imagine...I was once married to a non communicative mute..now...well...he will converse for hours...;o)

Thanks

Hi Lamplight,

Somehow I started reading your threads, I'm not sure what brought me to them but you might want to read what you wrote about the last guy you really liked. I think it was a few months ago but you really really really liked him, thought you would go mad if you couldn't be "with" him.... you might want to consider if you are just feeling lonely. I know I am. I'm very lonely, didn't think I would feel this way when I asked for a divorce, thinking I would be happier alone. I KNOW what alone is now. It's not what I thought but I need to get through this and find out who I am and what I want in a man in the future. Actually I want my husband back...

You might want to slow down a bit and just focus on your kids. Try to find happiness in being alone... now I'm going to go try to take my own advice.

I wish you well

Cj

Oki doki. Just realize that this is nothing but an internet romance until you meet. I am not saying this to insult you, but if I had a dollar for every time I built a connection with someone over the phone (OK, without the phone intimacy), and then met them in person and had them be nothing like what I pictured, well, you know the rest, I certainly wouldn't be going to work every day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.



Yes, but a connection that is (so far) built on fantasy. If the fantasy pans out, awesome - but don't skip the "minor detail" of actually meeting the person before considering them your soulmate <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Well here you go, you just gave yourself three red flags to deal with.



Four. Five.

One step at a time, is all I'm trying to say.

AGG

And you still haven't.

I want to apologize again. I misread your first post thinking that you had already met in person and that he had already met your family.

That this meeting is still in the future, I think that it's entirely understandable for him to decline and overnight at your sister's house.

Such as?


Remember the age old adage that there are two sides to every story. I bet his ex would have a slightly different take on things...


Wow. So you are a gift from god. That's quite a burden to live up to. Has he dated much since his divorce?

AGG

So, are you married or single?

And what about him?

Cj...Thanks for your insightful post. Yes, I'm sure there may be a lonliness factor. Do I really have to stand alone like an island with no one for years before I can consider a mate though? How long?

Cinderella and AGG... He is single and I am legally separated.

AGG and Who Dat... Thanks for trying to pop my fantasy balloon...and I mean it!!! That is why I'm here... I want it to be real. Thanks for taking the time.

Seabird Yeah, it's ok...I think it sounds "right" now not to have him over to my sister's house.



I suggested (stupidly) that perhaps we get a hotel for an overnight... he said no. He is adament that he can "look in my father's eyes and know he is not sleeping with his daughter."

He claims in his last marraige he waited until they were married before they had SF. However he did "talk" about it...which I find interestingly and bit of a tease. He apologized and said we should and will stop. He had been thinking about it and he thinks it is disrespectful to me and isn't a good choice for building a deep spiritual emotional relationship first.

One of my most favorite things about him is he is so comfortable talking about his faith. I love that!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi LWP

I'm sorry I gave the impression I think you should be alone forever. Of course no one should be alone forever unless they want that. I'm just thinking that it's so early since your separation and you are searching for someone on Match.com..... What is it that makes you want to look for someone so soon after the loss of your 16 year marriage?

I understand how lonely it is after losing someone, my divorce was final in March of this year.... I'm lonely as ****** and in so much pain. I can't begin to think I have anything to offer anyone.

Maybe you could find the company your are searching for with your daughters and friends and get through your divorce, if that's where your separation is headed before searching for someone to give your heart to. I'd imagine it's still broken in pieces..
I'm sorry about your situation, I wish you didn't have to go through it.

Sure, just want you to keep your eyes open.


Just curious, is your faith the same as his?

So when are you meeting him?

AGG

Hey, as one of the Original wielders of the MB 2x4, I should probably have *that* in my signature... ;P

But really... I am *very* familiar with the "Internet Romance," and once you meet him, you'll realize reality can never measure up to the fantasy you have created in your mind. Realize that, lower your expectations to somewhere on this planet, and I think you'll do OK.

I'm even falling a little bit into the trap myself these days, and I'm only emailing my dates for a little while before meeting them. Not much (and I have a Jedi Master who tries to keep my feet firmly planted on the ground) but it does still tend to happen. I'm trying to not set up anything in my head other than having a good time. If it happens, it happens, but I try not to expect too much (and sometimes without success). It's all a learning process.

So, you aren't single?

MWM
-oh, it's ok. I just don't understand this idea so well. Why should I wait? What am I waiting for? I want to date why shouldn't I? When do you think you'll be ready to date and how will you know? Why can't some lonliness be ok. Why do I have to be not lonely before I date....this doesn't make sense. I feel like there is some secret...what and why am I waiting...what is the harm?...what will happen in the future to me if I wait?...it I don't wait? I'm being serious...someone tell me that is more than "Victorian ideals." I just want to know. I need a GOOD reason to wait...because the loneliness, the emptiness, it is awful...why can't I find someone? Why is it ok for some and within yours and others to say "you really should abstain." analogy: they can have chocolate, but you can't. Why not me? I know I don't want SF...I want a relationship...for goodness sakes I haven't had one in years. I'm hungry and I believe I've learned and I'm an adult and I'm ready. My XWS has my blessing. I don't harbor resentment. I'm free of it. I want to live.


cinderella
-I knew this is where you were going with this. I've been around marraige builders for several years now and I'm quite familiar with the basics.
to
I DID it. I'm an MB believer and doer. I can qoute His Needs Her Needs. There is no question about it my marraige is over now. My ex has made his choice perfectly clear. He is living with the other woman. He is living with her in the old marital home. There is no going back. If you would like to look at my old posts you may. I did an extremely long Plan A ....I did everything I could and so much more. He is a "boy" to me. I found out he had many affairs he was abusive. I've learned how not to be abused. I'm no ones victim...I played a role ...I see that now ...I'm responsible for my part ...I can legally date, my heart is free from him.

He is with someone now who is like the "old me." So be it.

who-dat
-Thanks a lot. I'm trying to prepare myself for what could be a lot of disappointments with this new fellow. He swears. I've never dated a blue collar worker before. He doesn't have a college education. He has tattoos. However... He is proud of being a hard worker, He has4+ years of overtime and only 3 jobs ever. He is patriotic and was a Marine for 4 years. He has strong .morals and values...(Unlike my XWS) It is obvious he is an intelligent and curious man and it hasn't stopped him from reading all types of philosophy and poetry and he loves history. He is an amateur photographer.


A Good Guy
... Thank you-I'll be meeting him in 13 days from today. He is a Messianic Jew and I'm an Episcopalian...however I like the Presbyterian church too. He went to Synagouge (sp.) school for 4 years. He "knows" the bible quite well. I like to read it and we have read it together a little just for kicks and giggles. He is very open and believes in much the same I. Like there is no room for anyone else priest, rabbi, spouse etc.... in your relationship with God.



All of your words of caution have not fallen on deaf ears and I'm going into this meeting with a healthier perspective. As a matter of fact... it would be wise and kind of me to pop his fantasy baloon too. If it really is going to "work" and it is "meant to be" then it will. There is no need for us to get ourselves dreaming of a dreamland. There is no such thing anyway.

Keeping it Real.... thanks MB

Well, as I recall, this is already the third "amazing" "incredible" guy for whom you have "fallen hard" all in the past few months. Right?

Now, trust me, no matter how lucky you are, there is almost no chance of finding 3 Mr. Rights in a few months. Which leads us to the inevitable conclusion, that perhaps it's not that you met 3 Mr. Rights, but that your "Mr. Right picker" needs some finetuning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. What better reason to slow down and maybe spend some time alone finetuning your "Mr. Right picker" than this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Oh, trust me, all of us who have spent time alone have "lived". At least last time I checked, I was still living (mlhb might disagree). But I became much better at picking the right partners after I spent some time getting used to my single life, instead of just trying to rebuild what was lost. What was lost can never be rebuilt.


How does this blend in with your background/values?


Interesting. I don't think that most synagogues would consider him to be Jewish, or are you referring to a Messianic synagogue? Recall that religion is one of the "Big Three" common issues in marriage (right up there with sex and money), so if his beliefs are very strong, and different from yours, well, you get the idea.

Still, I hope you have a great time in 13 days <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Just be prepared to deal with a real person, not a knight on white horse <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

This may seem like a really weird question LWP, but how old is he and by any chance does he live in Washington State? (or is it Oregon?) Is his first name Bill by any chance?

There's nothing wrong with dating just as long as you know what kind of relationship you're capable of at the moment. It sounds like you're trying to alleviate your loneliness rather than build a sound foundation for a potential relationship. You know, the cart before the horse syndrome.

Who_Dat has some sound advice, meet the guy and try to bring your desire for a relationship in line with what is before you at the moment. Don't try to build a lasting relationship with someone you haven't met. Nothing Victorian about that.

I'm interested to see the answer to the question dw has asked you.

...so this was your original question. I'm going to answer it:

A game. Turf him.

I've yet to meet a blue collar worker with tattoos who is so HIGHLY respectful of women that he won't even sleep on a sofa, for fear of "disrespecting" his woman. This may be stereotypical of me, but as with all GENERALIZATIONS, GENERALLY they are true.

It smells of this fake-[censored] "knight in shining armour" syndrome that some men take on in order to woo women. I find the whole thing just reeks of a married man, getting his kicks online....

LWP,

I really think...based on what you said,that you are rushing into all of this WAY too fast.

One big red flag for me is when people start talking about loneliness and they aren't even divorced yet.If you cannot be on your own, comfortably,for some *significant time and heal from the other relationship first,you better take a step back and analyze that because it sounds a great deal like you are using this guy to fill some voids.And we all know,or most of us do,how that turns out in the long run.

Asking this guy you have never met before to stay over at your sisters or even at a hotel is not appropriate in my mind at this stage.People make a lot of assumptions just on internet chat and there is more untruths out there than you can shake a stick at.You have to get to know this guy in person,the real him.And an LDR will make that hard too.

Slow it down IMO.Get your ducks in a row.End the marriage first,get it over with and HEAL.You may want to stomp your feet and give the usual "why should I have to wait" debate but if you don't things can and very well may turn ugly for you.

You sound very emotionally involved already and you need to be careful.Keep your wits about you.Don't let your feelings cloud your *judgment.

My husband told me that some men play a game with women to get sex. Some men will act the gentleman and not even give an indication to a woman that he wants to have sex with her the first time they are out. He said that it almost guarantees that the man will have sex with the woman the second time because she is left wondering, 'why didn't he try?'

on 6/24 -
its 7/18 - i guess the board was right. otherwise she would be back here gloating. .

wiftty

Or maybe they hit it off and she hasn't come up for air yet... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

AGG

Oh my AGG, you are naughty! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hehe, I actually share Wiftty's suspicions, but was just trying to make lemonade out of lemons <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

I'm too late into this thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I made those same mistakes. The man I got involved with was someone I knew through business (but not in person) for some years before I separated - and it was only formal business before that. Then about 6 months after word got around that I was separated, he started flirting and I flirted back. I wasn't divorced. I should have listened to those who told me to *wait*.

I'm finally doing things right - but I did them in reverse. I'm divorced now and NOW I'm getting right with myself and with God and learning to be OK on my own.

I understand how the void begs to be filled - but that's the absolute *worst* time to get involved with somebody. The best time is when you DO NOT "need" somebody. Then you make your decisions based on free will, choice, not desperation or need, or perceived need.

I could have written a similar post 2 years ago myself - wish I had and somebody would have 2x4'd me. But I didn't - that's MY fault and nobody else's. Lessons learned.

I wonder how it went.... but I think I know how it turns out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Greetings! To all the Wise and Wonderful folks here at MB!

I think I finally got it! LOL! 3 strikes and I'm Out!

There was nothing really wrong with him. I realize now that I ....yes, I, with God's help, must fill this VOID.

I'm going to waaaaiiiitttt until I don't feel lonely, and I feely full, wholesome, joyful, purposeful, good on my own now. It may take some time... baby step it.

I got two books I'm starting to read... "Look Great Feel Great 12 Keys to Enjoying a Healthy Life Now," by Joyce Meyer and "The Sacred Romance, Drawing Closer to the Heart of God," by Brent Curtis and John Eldredge.

They seem like a good place for me to start.

Today I woke took my two lovely dogs for a walk, ate healthfully, prayed, and submitted for some more employment on line. (I'm looking for a teaching job.) I'm beginning a new romance...with God and the life I've been given... No one can take that and leave me empty!

If anyone has some advice, things that helped them grow... I would be interested. I'm truly interested in my "heart"...and I'm going to try my darndest to keep my focus on it's "spiritual health."

I would love to commune with others like me. I would like to find a church family... I think. I'm still trying to figure that one out. In the meanwhile... I'll just work on myself and my "non-romantic" relationships for a long while.

Thanks,
Lamplight

:::::Applause:::::

I have no more sage advice - I'm sorta kinda in a similar place - been on my own for a while now and just doing what it takes to keep moving forward... on my own <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Carry on!

JinGA

Hi JinGA-

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. LOL.

Tonight I'm going to check out a support group. We shall see. I'm sure to be careful NOT to look for someone else to fill me... however having "companions" and learning from one another may be a nice way to grow... who knows... perhaps God in his infinite wisdom is sending me there to "tell my story" tonight to help someone else. Nice thought. Which in turn would help me... get it? LOL.

Oh I have a terribly goofy sense of humor... I like it though. Ok... now I'm talking to myself.

Have a good evening... and "pass it on!"

Lamplight

Oh, come on, no fair, we want details!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

AGG

LOL... AGG....

He was sweet, had a soft kiss, and a warm safe hug, rugged hands, and a gentle touch. He was artistic, sensitive, spiritual, good looking and eyes that drank me up, and a gentleman.

He was incredible.

He is adorable.

He is in Texas and I'm in New York.

He is too busy now.... I understand... I hope he contacts me some day as a friend... because he was the first guy i truly shared such a spiritual connection with.

He isn't the one for me in some ways... yet they're not really important to note. Just that he is overloaded with debt and other family issues.

Either way... knowing him has at least let me know that a man CAN be open with me emotionally and spiritually. That was nice.

When he pulled away and I hurt... well I quickly realized that this hunger that I need to feed isn't going to be fed by a man... Not this time, not again. I need to build myself up so it can't be taken away.

He is a good guy too... and I hope he finds what it is he needs.




My support group was nice. I met another woman about my age who is just divorcing and she is struggling. We were helping eachother and we said we would meet back next Thursday night.

My best,
Lamplight

i agree with good spiritual health.
i turn everything over to god. i don't know how i would make it thru if i did not. and my church family? the best. they are there for me every single day. i am grateful for them, they have NEVER let me down.

i have gotten much more spiritual over the past year. and i know i must have a man in my life that shares that desire as well. without god we have nothing. you are reading good books. max lucado is great too. i do at home bible studies a few minutes each day. and i pray every single day. and when i do i turn everything over to god. i always mess things up when i try to handle them on my own. i am a pretty simple person, i am not money hungry or materialistic. i am can be very happy with very little as long as i have my kids. i don't feel i am a selfish person at all, but i do want a slice of that happy relationhsip pie. i don't think after the marriage i went thru that that is asking too much. we all deserve safety and caring and love after what we have been thru.

i think you are on the right path. god has plans for all of us, we just can't always see the big picture and sometimes stuff doesn't make sense til way later down the road when we go "oh, that is why that happened that way!" that is why i try not to get too stressed about stuff. because i can't see the big picture.

you can email me anytime if you would like, my email is in my sig line. i am in NY too!

mlhb

Several years ago, I read Terry Waite's autobiography. He was the envoy of the Archbishop of Canterbury who was held captive in Lebanon for something like 5 years.

In the book, he paraphrased something allegedly said by Augustine:

[color:"purple"]To have peace, you must know yourself. To know yourself, you must be alone.[/color]

Very, very true!

mlhb- thank you for your thoughtful and kind remarks.

I do give everything over to God. I trust in the Lord and pray...that hasn't been exactly enough for me to flourish...but only to "make it" through the rough spots. Something like I heard before... still drinking "mother's milk" when I need solid food.

The ideas presented in the book "The Sacred Romance" are exciting to me and make some "spiritual sense" (if you will.) The idea that I will open up and fall in love with all the beauty and "good" life around me...drink it in...and attribute it all to my relationship with God, and that God would like, perhaps love that to happen? ...well I like that.

Sounds so simple...I know. I think when you've been hurt... suffered trauma... become depressed... lost faith or "heart" one needs to "learn" to open up again. I ran and hid my heart... I think I became leary subconsciously of loving again...period. Loving anyone, myself included.

Cinderella and raggamuffin-
thank you. Defining "alone" can mean many things. I've been surrounded by many people yet felt very alone. I've been alone and felt my mind "crowded." Where ever I am now generally I can manage and create that feeling...spiritual growth in relation to God has eluded me. I think maybe it is not enough to be alone but one must also be wide open and leaning with faith and hope to grow closer to God. None of which is always easy... being wide open... leaning ....faith and hope. I haven't always had all of these at once ...right now I believe I am doing it with results.

I woke this morning...and thought let's see this glorious day God has set before me...it is so lovely. Look at the billowing white clouds against the crisp blue sky in the morning light. I could almost smell the air outside my window when I woke. I'm alive and lovely. There are exciting things that God would like me to choose from and do and see and share in. I'm happy to be alive. I WANT to get out of bed...I don't WANT to lay there all day sleeping my doldroms off.

I feel anew... hallelujah!!!

Peace out!
Lamplight