Most of you know that my WH moved out to live with her OW. I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone for nearly 3 hours last night and honest to G-d, I think he is having a mental breakdown or it's the typical kind of romantic affair.

And from what I read it seems like it is typical just a little more crazy.

Since he left, two months ago yesterday he has had NOTHING to do with our boys. He talks to our daughter, but she lives away from home. He was once a day to day, very hands on dad.

Having said that, and knowing that I am in Plan A, but not sure how to keep proceeding with him not living at home. What I did was text message him on Saturday - I love you and I believe in you. From the game yesterday I tm him - wish you were here, I love you, your bright eyes.

My question is, should I keep him completely informed on what is going on in the boy's life seeing is that I am in Plan A, or what way is best to proceed?

thank you,
SG

Until I checked the ages of your sons, I was going to suggest setting up a visitation schedule, but your boys are at the age where they can choose who they want to speak to.

I wonder if by not speaking to the boys, who are old enough to have their own ideas about dad's crappy behavior, if your H isn't avoiding being confronted by them.

My ODd was 14 when during the last of our bad times and she told my H he was scum. Until then, I believe my H didn't think our separations affected our daughters, that it was me he no longer wanted to be with, not them.

In some part of his hands-on father part of his brain your H probably realizes he is not setting a good example of how a responsible man leads his life as a husband & father. And if his boys would tell him so, it interrupts his fantasy, he might not be ignore their view of him...being absent might be easier on him.

I did Plan A through separation, false recovery, more separation, etc. It isn't easy, however, in some ways because you don't have to deal with the WS for big chunks of time and have your lovebank drained, separation can ease the household tension.

I would let your H know when the boys have activities, if you camp or plan something fun, invite him. Let him realize that his family's lives are moving on without him, he is missing out.

We actually went to Disney World as family in the midst of our separations, about 10 months before reconciliation. At the time it was awkward, but it is a pretty good memory now.

Hi Lor,

I would agree with you. My boys are the ones who figured out about the affair and confronted him. He has made a couple of overatures, however those were disasters.

And a little over a month into this mess, my WH brought the OW to a lacrosse tournament and found out because my mood had changed so dramatically. They actually secretely hope he comes home, but won't say it.

So it was ok to text message him yesterday that we wished he was with us?

What else would you suggest?

SG

Lor,

May I ask a couple of other questions. My WH is in this unbelievable chaotic environment with the OW. It's actually funny if it weren't my family that is hurting so deeply.

My WH seems to be spending more and more time online and sending emails back and forth to me. Is it a good idea to keep talking to him, or should I avoid him on here?

When we were dating I knew that he liked Miracle Whip and I like mayo. After we got married I bought mayo. This might seem stupid, but today I bought him a jar of miracle whip and was thinking of putting it in a bag as a present and saying if I had to do over it would be miracle whip. What do you think?

SG

Skinsgal, I think it was ok to text him about the game. It may remind him that he is making choices that show his current lacking as a parent. Not rubbing his nose in it, but "wish you were here." Hopefully he won't bring the OW again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'd maybe back off a little on the I Love You, maybe Love as a sign off, or your loving wife. I'm also not sure that using his pet name for you (assuming that is what bright eyes is) is helpful at this time, just a feeling I had as I read your post. Maybe someone else will have a different read.

If your H is online with you, he is not fully present with her in thought or form. That's fine for Plan A.

Miracle Whip is not the reason for any difficulties. Your H is an adult, I assume he knows what a grocery store is, at any point he could have bought himself his own Miracle Whip. True, you could have bought both. Bygones.

Put the jar of Miracle Whip in the fridge.

You don't want to provision the home of the OW. Maybe she buys mayo!

But, you could email him that you bought it and "if I had to do over it would be miracle whip."

Lor,

I will knock off the pet name. I actually hadn't told him I loved him since July 3rd. I don't know if he is online with me, but he sends me emails back and forth.

He is living in a one bedroom apt with OW. She takes care of this sick guy and he gets the room. My WH has to leave for work at 4:00 and when he lived at home, wanted to be in bed by 9:30. I don't think that is happening to often these days. Oh well, choices.

How would I start the conversation about the Miracle Whip?

Thanks for your help,

SG

It seems that I am in a true balance act. I am not sure which is better. Being available or absent.

What do you think?

SG

SG, Your H's living conditions sound bleak, uncomfortable and a little creepy. Don't give him the joy of the miracle whip. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

As for balance, take a deep breath and live your life as actively and well as you can. Do positive activities that you enjoy. Spend as much time with your kids as they will allow.

If you are available for his emails, you are, if you are busy and your response lags a little, that's ok.

Even in Plan A, I believe in natural consequences to the WS.

His nearly adult sons find his affair behavior rotten...consequence. You can talk to your sons, but you don't have to make it right between them. He is their dad and the only bio dad they will have. Their relationship becomes between son and father.

He chooses to live in chaos and can't sleep at his accustomed 9:30, oh well.

He sends you an email, maybe you read and respond in a timely manner, maybe your life is busy and you don't.

I don't know if you exercise, but if not, this is a good time to start. It will help you deal with your stress and physically feel better. And, you probably leave the house and the computer. If you carry your cell phone, you can choose whether or not to answer then or when you finish.

If you want to send the miracle whip email, maybe before sleep "Hey, today when I was in the grocery store you'll never believe..." or whatever wording is natural to you.

Lor, They are creepy. Is that a hopeful sign or not?

Since my H left, I have lost 42 lbs, gone back to AA, gotten a sponsor - talk to her everyday, am currently working on my 4th step, am handling the finances by myself (though up until last week gave me all his money), exercise regularly, eat ok, am addressing every addiction I have, given up all my volunteer work except for the one that involves my kids and spend as much time as home or with my kids as possible.

He doesn't ever call me anymore, just sends emails.

This is just so hard and I miss him so much. The pain of that is what is most crippling to me and just hits me during the day for no reason. How does that stop?

SG

SG,Wow, you've made a lot of positive changes.

The pain of missing him...not much you can do that you aren't already doing. Keeping busy, staying focused on good things, connecting with friends and family. It is hard.

Lor -

thank you, it's just awful. How long does this last?

SG

SG, from the notable posts thread:

DO's

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

SG,

From your post on my "musings" thread:

[color:"blue"]"What are you feelings or insight as to a marriage that has abuse in it. I am wondering if there was never going to be anything that I could have done to make him happy."[/color]

You can't MAKE him happy any more than you can MAKE him taller or shorter or fatter or skinnier or older....

You don't have any control over his actions or feelings, other than what he allows in the way of influence.

Though you do wish for the person you love to be happy, it isn't your failure if they are not, within certain limits, of course.

The only thing you have control over right now is yourself and your own reactions. These are things YOU own. They are things YOU can change as required. They are what YOU have the power to do or not do as you see fit.

What HE owns, is entirely HIS.

His choices.

His feelings.

His emotions.

His life.

Plan A is about changing the things that YOU have control over. These are things that belong to YOU. His happiness is not one of these things. You can choose to be happy, but you can not choose happiness for him.

Show him what marriage to you could be like if he is willing to work at recovery. Don't tell him about it, just change yourself for the better. Even if he does not return to you later, you will be better for the changes and better off in the long run.

Ace has some insight into P/A behavior as she and her H both have P/A tendencies. Don't get too wrapped up in putting labels on what your H is doing or attempt to explain why he is doing them. First of all, you don't really know his thought process, so anything you can surmise is really only a judgement and likely a disrespectful judgement at that, since you can't think what he is thinking and only guess at what that is.

Attempting to understand the WS mindset will drive you nuts faster than being told to sit in the corner of a round building. You have enough to worry about in dealing with what you are thinking and feeling. When you try to apply logica and reason to what the WS is doing, you fail simply because what they are doing does not make any sense at all. It is not logical and so logic cannot explain it.


As for abuse...

Was he abusive before the affair or is it just that his actions during and related to the affair are abusive?

Mark

Mark - He has been passive-agressive our whole married life. I just found his journal that he talks about picking on me and stuff. He always had this mind game going with me and then would shut down on me. He is a very injured person from his childhood and yet controlling and manipulating is all he knows how to do.

To survive I would volunteer and be out of the house. One of his top EN is spending time with each other. And so I would, but then he would push me away and we would get in this vicious cycle. He would tell me what he needed, I would do it, but then he would still pick on me or things wouldn't change. I would get frustrated and do volunteer work to escape.

I am working on myself, I believe i get it intellectually that he is an alien right now who is doing crazy stuff, but in my heart it hurts so deeply.

Does this make any sense at all? Am I the crazy one? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SG

How's the birthday going?