I posted this over on recovery but there is much more input here. You guys have been great to me. I'm at work (don't have much time now) I'd appreciate any thoughts!.......

Some of you may remember me, but I haven't been around in awhile. We've been in recovery for a while now. Let's see last June'06 I finally got the NC letter. He moved back home in Sept or was it Oct. Things have been GREAT. I am sure the A is over, we have grown closer over this last year.

I've taken ark^^'s advice about being STILL. It worked our marriage is stronger than ever, its the kind of marriage I longed for. We look forward to seeing eachother, we have fun together, we make decisions together, we share the workload (financial and household), we confide in eachother, we are affectionate, we are passionate, we are considerate, we voice our opinions, and we LISTEN. BUT....we still have not talked about the details of the A. I don't want all the nitty gritty, but I do have questions. I have told him that I have questions but I would wait for the answers. Honestly if he had disclosed everything early in recovery when we were still fragile I don't think it would have helped us. I want to get the elephant out of the middle of the living room. Do I press him? Its been months since I last mentioned that I have questions. Or do I wait, enjoy what we have and be still?

Hey c42! Great to see you and to know you are in recovery! Have you asked him lately for details? Have you ever given him a copy of Joseph's letter to read?

Great to see ya ChaCha.

Sounds like ya'll are doing about the same as H and I. I still have unanswered questions too, but mine are more nitty gritty type stuff that I didn't think I need to know at first, now a part of me feels like it's too late to ask.

I'm not sure what to tell you, I think you need to get the questions answered if you haven't done that at all yet. I would maybe talk to your H and ask him how he would like to do it. i.e. - set day and time limit, all questions go into a bowl and he pulls out a couple a day/week, etc. Maybe if he feels some kind of control over it and knows there is an ends to a means he will be more on board with doing it.

Good luck and keep checking in once in a while.

Take care
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Daze

What KINDA STUFF do you feel you need to know?

To me, it seems LATE in RECOVERY for you to NEED to know stuff...

To me, if you ask NOW, it may be damaging for YOU...

I got to the point EARLY ON in RECOVERY, though, when ENOUGH was ENOUGH..the FACTS were TOO HURTFUL...

Are you sure it's STUFF that you REALLY NEED TO KNOW..given that your RELATIONSHIP is doing so well NOW??

FF, Thanks for stopping by! Its probably been 6 months since I asked about the A. I have not pushed the issue because I couldn't tolerate one more lie. I thought about telling him about Joseph's letter or letting him read it, but he gets annoyed w/ analogies sometimes. I want this to be about me and him.

In a daze (you seem pretty clear these days!)
I like your suggestions about the format. I would love for the 2 of us to go away to a hotel for a weekend...just the 2 of us no interuptions....get it all out. I don't know that would be his preference.

Mimi....thought provoking as always! Realistically I know there are some things he can't answer, he won't remember or he can't understand himself. For the most part I think I want validation, amd reassurance that we won't repeat the same mistakes. We share so much now and have talked about more in this last year then we have before. I don't want this "secret" between us. I want confirmation that we are now in sync and that he values that as much as I do. I want to forgive him and offer my whole heart, accept him for the good and the bad, I don't want him to think "If she knew she wouldn't love me." I can't forgive what I don't know. I'm ready to move to the next level of intimacy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm sticking out my neck here, feeling HONORED to try to past on what I learned from MY MENTORS..not around here much anymore..who talked about this stuff with me when I was at your point...

In my recollection, they encouraged me to MOVE ON..and that's what I feel the need to tell you...

You're just SOOOO FAR IN THE PROCESS...

I'm not sure any DETAILS are gonna help you...

I hear you needing VALIDATION...

Isn't this about YOUR PERSONAL RECOVERY?

Isn't this about you FEELING OK ABOUT YOURSELF?

Isn't this about you opening YOURSELF UP..freeing YOURSELF up to GIVE YOURSELF FREELY to YOUR HUSBAND?

It seems to be YOUR WORK, CHA-CHA...

That's what I LEARNED from PEP and SUSAN and BR..I THINK...

Why do you need to HEAR in WORDS what you already have EVIDENCED to you, BEHAVIORALLY?

I think DETAILS NOW..about AFFAIR CRUD... will take you BACKWARDS...

Do you want your H to start thinking about HER again when he thinks of YOU when HE THINKS about LOVE and ROMANCE?????

Your H is IN LOVE WITH YOU NOW....

This is about FEELING CONFIDENT with yourself...

FEELING YOUR PERSONAL POWER...

Yes, go away with him but NOT TO TALK ABOUT THE AFFAIR...

How about some SF with your EYES OPEN and YELLING out each others NAMES..now that's INTIMACY!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

ChaCha:

You STILL need to know.

Get that copy of "Josephs Letter" from the "Notable Posts" Thread at the top of this forum. Understand what is says and then talk to your FWH about what it says when he reads it.

Also, after reading Josephs Letter, make the list of what you NEED to know.

You may know more than you really think you do, and when you write out what you would like to know, you may realize that it isn't a whole lot of info that you are missing anyway. And your fears about what the real truth may be, may be worse. Try to have the questions gouped by type of things, look for relationships between the questions to allow your H to see/know what you are really needed answers too. You know what you NEED to know, you have thought it through, and you want to work through it with your H, and that can be a great comfort to the FWS, as he knows that there is an end point.

So, make this list in question form. Leading questions, but also ones that can be answered.

Do not present this to your FWH and say: Answer these now.

No, you talk about Josephs Letter, and then after you have talked for a while, you give him the list of questions. Letting him know that he can answer them weekly until he was worked thru it. Talk about 1 - 2 hours a week. Tackle a question in each hour, or as many as an hour will allow.

That way, he knows there is an end point.

And you have got to let him talk. He feels safe to talk with you now, your first post on this thread talks about that. But this kind of stuff can get ugly quick, and much of the M progress you two have made can be reversed.

The idea is to just let him explain to you some of the things that have troubled you to know, but that he has not answered yet. And you have got to let him speak freely. If he tells you something that makes you feel awful, you have the right to pause, retire the conversation for that night, or move to a less troubling area, and come back to it later. But if what he says is the truth, he can't GET IN TROUBLE for it. Not now. Not ever.

Why? You want the honesty. And honesty can only take place if FWH feels safe.

If you give your questions numbers like 1-6 or 1-10, and rank the questions in order of the the most important/dangerous questions, then allow him to start with the questions that may have the least amount of hurt on you to continue, then it geta easier to address the bigger, more controvesial questions that he will need to address. And the questions can have the same number on them. You might feel that you have 5 lowlevel #10 Questions, and 4 Level 9 Q's, but have 8 level 5 Q's. You see?

Daze's idea about the fish bowl makes sense as well, but because they are in the jar, then you do not know going in to the conversation what level or how difficult the Q's might be. But it might work.

Establishing even greater intimancy through this process is the goal. But when your H clears this hurdle, he needs to know that he has answered all your questions. You will have opportunity to ask questions, to clarify and connect things. During this "question time" But he knows at the end, that he has revealed what you needed to know, and that a return to the "A" period isn't to rehash the past, just to clarify.

IMPORTANT: NO KIDS. NO INTERRUPTIONS. YOU NEED THE FLOW to happen. HE starts talking, you go till the 1 hour mark happens. Then you wrap it up. He can look you in the eyes while he talks, or to the side, what ever is most comfortable. Touching side to side works really well. Not to threatening. Do something fun after the bell rings....

PS: You and Mimi Posted in between me starting and finishing this!

LG

Mimi,

no disrespect intended but I disagree. Perhaps she doesn't need GORY details but she does need to know the basics of what happened and what she is forgiving him for. In fact, IMHO he should be prepared to answer the occasional question that may come up over the next few years. Not constant peppering of questions but if something hits cha cha, she should feel safe asking. This is about taking down those walls of secrecy. No, we never know EVERYTHING but we should be told what we need to know.

ChaCha:

Mimi makes very good points...

Let me tell you about one incident while I was in the A.

I came home late one night. I usually wasn't that late, but this night, I got home at 11:30-midnight.

Instead of Flamingo being asleep, she was Awake!

And I stunk bad from my evenings activities....

If I just climbed into bed? Bad, bad news.

So, I took a shower and then climbed in. Something I NEVER do. Flamingo rolled over and went to sleep, and so did I. Not much talking, and I made a point not to touch her...(I was really awful...)

I remember that night. So does Flamingo.

She knew FOR SURE that night, that I was in an A. It was about a year before Dday.

But, for the life of me, I can not remember what was special about that evening with OW.

Not a clue. I remember coming in the house, but nothing about the 4-5 hours before that.

Not avoiding anything there, just do not remember. (it's about three years ago now)

That's where your H is right now. I do not know your full story, but your sig line says alot.

HE might remember alot about what happened, I do, and I have told Flamingo all she *needed* to know. If she wants more, I will tell her, in greater detail, until shes comfortable. She knows this, and she doesn't ask much anymore.

You haven't arrived at that point yet. You may not have gotten from your FWH info that I have given to Flamingo, and that's why you need more. It has been awhile. And some of what you speak may derail your recovery, or at least set it back. Always that risk.

That's why I posted the above, to show you a process that makes sense. That takes it'e time and evolves and you both grow from it, as the secrets are exposed to the light of day.

A weekend to do it? NO WAY. Plan a weekend away with the two of you that has nothing to do with the "questions."

Address these issues over time and with time in between to process and settle.

LG

I would also politely disagree because although there has been TONS of progress and the focus is to the future (which is GOOD), sometimes in order to completely put it to rest there are things that person just has to know.

I do have a suggestion though that makes it a bit more palatable to ask. Often a WS who sees the error of their ways feels deeply guilty over the way they behaved or the choices they made, and it's somewhat understandable that they would want to put that in the past and forget about it. After all, would you like to be reminded over and over of a stupid mistake you made? Nope. You'd want it to be forgiven, especially if you were truly repentant.

However, balance that with the fact that you need to know a few things in order to heal. How's that possible? If you o to a hotel and just "put it all out there" you could ruin a GREAT chance at romance -AND- it could get pretty ugly pretty quick. Thus, I suggest that you make a respectful request. Let your FWS know that for your own healing you do have some questions about the A that you need to ask, but you also do not want them to feel unforgiven or like it's a sword over their head--and then suggest something like, "Could I ask you two questions a day and you would answer them fully and honestly? Alternatively, could we limit the question talk-time to no more than 1 hour?" That way you (BS) would get your questions answered and your spouse (WS) would not feel piled on or accused, etc. You could ask the one that's REALLY bugging you today--and he could know that the interrogation won't go on forever. WIN/WIN

Your true and faithful friend,



CJ

I was responding to CC's answer to my question aout what kinda stuff she needed to know. She didn't say that she wanted specifics. She said this..



So therefore, it seems more about her CONFIDENCE.

I remember when I was at that place...

And it was more about ME..rather than about stuff I needed to know...

I think it's ALOT DIFFERENT once you've been in RECOVERY..OVER A YEAR...like CC...

Out of the fog..she's correct, I think..there's a lot of stuff her H may not remember...

Thanks you guys!
MB have always given me a chance to catch my breath and focus my perspective. Even w/ different opinions. I know that all of your responses come from a place of compassion and understanding.

I've done some thinking on all your responses....I think I've injected a little too much drama. I guess it comes from living in crisis mode for so long. I had gotten use to walking on eggshells and watching every word that I said. I sometimes still expect him to respond in the way he did in the "alien days".

Example: A couple of weeks ago, we were going camping (in the RV he use to live in), just the 2 of us. We were scheduled to leave at 5:30 PM on a Friday w/ a 3 hour drive ahead of us. There was a situation at work and I could not leave until it was resolved. I was sure he would be furious, afterall he got out of work on time, the traffic would be bad and we hadn't packed everything. So I called him to let him know that I would be late. He said "ok, call me when you're leaving." Thats it no lecture, no tyraid, no angry words. At 7:15 he called me. "Just checking to make sure you were ok." I was wrapping things up at that point. He suggested I stop and get take-out we could eat on the road. When I got home, he had done everything, packed our clothes and food, got the cats situated, had the dog ready to go. All I had to do was change out of my work clothes. He wasn't angry at all. We had a wonderful weekend.

I was thinking about a post from I believe it was bOb pure, "What would you do if you weren't afraid?"....I would just tell him I love him and I'm excited about the new marriage we are building and I have some questions.Then take it from there.

I don't need the build up and the drama of weekend of interogation. You guys are so right that is a waste of potential quality time. The questions I have are not about what did you do, where did you do it, what positions, etc. Its more like.....when did it start, when and how did it end, what is it that brought you back home, what was going on in our life that you turned to her instead of me?

OW was a family friend, between her H and I we put alot of the pieces together. I am interested in my DH's perception on what happened. I know what he chose in the end... me and our family.

{{{{{{Thank you all from the bottom of my heart!}}}}}}}

That is exactly how I read it c42. I KNEW you didn't need the other stuff after a year. I suspect you want the defogged version of "how did we get there" from him.

Cha Cha,

Well, your need to know this seems normal to me. And YOU know what YOU need to know better than any of us here.


Have you tried merely saying this to him?

Who

bump>>>>> for hope this works

Oh my gosh Cha Cha! I can't believe you are on here! I have not been to this website in so long and the one day I do yo have a post.

Sounds like you and you husband are doing great. I am happy to hear that!

My situation is no better and I guess I have decided to bide my time until my son graduates in the spring. My WH is still very wayard. He has never left our home and his affair was gone for a while, but now I am sure it is back full force. I have no plan and feel as though I am a failure. He will not move out, I will not move out so when my son graduatse I can move to where ever I want and he can do what he wants. Probably sounds stupid, but I don't know what else to do.

Anyway...so sorry to threadjack!!!

Good to see you are doing so great!

Take Care!

((((Cha-Cha))))

You drama queen you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here is how I see it. Learning all the details, the important ones will be difficult for both you and your FWH, however once done you will have crossed the final hurdle on the marathon of marital recovery. I look it at as taking one step back for 2 steps forward.

As long as your FWH feels safe enough to be radically honest with you, getting this out of the way will help increase the intimacy in your marriage.

You have received plenty of solid advice on how to approach it so I all I will say is if you really need to know, then ask your FWH and give him a safe place to be honest with you.

It already sounds like you know what to do.

So happy for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HTW

(((((Lost)))))))
Its so good to hear from you! I was looking for a post from you and couldn't find anything recent.

I'm so sorry you are still in limbo. I remember living like that it takes away a little piece of your heart everyday. I truely hope that you are taking care of yourself. You deserve to be cherished even if your stupid WH doesn't know what he is missing.



You know better than that! Your marriage failing does not make you a failure. Why don't you have a plan? You need to plan for YOUR future even if its w/o stupid WH.

Have you given up on your marriage? DO NOT give up on yourself!

((((HTW))))
Its funny how when you mull something over in your head the more you think about it and analize it....it becomes bigger than what it really is. Thats what I love about MB. It puts things is perspective for me. Once you get it out there it seems pretty simple.



I always wanted to be royalty! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />