I've been posting on Recovery. Summery of my story: Met my H at 16. dated at 17, married and pregnant at 18. Been M since 1988, have 2 kids--DD is 19, DS is 16. Found out A on 7/2/07, H works and friend w/OW---He's in love w/her. He loves me but not "in love" w/me, don't feel passion for me, and don't know if he can ever feel that way for me. NC.....maybe, depends on the day. I think he is NC right now, but he's fooled me before. OW H knows, last I heard she was moving out but I don't think she has yet.

H is in fog, hasn't change stance since he admitted to being in love w/OW. Told me everything I do is "pressure" on him, and that I can't force him to feel something he doesn't. He wants us to be "normal", like it was before the A. He refuses to talk about where he is, again pressure.

When he told me that there is nothing I can do to make him feel anything for me, that is the straw that broke my back. I have given up any hope to pull him out of his fog. Even his bf can't get thru to him. H just nods and agrees but continues to do whatever he wants. Refuses to go to MC, says it's a waste of time....wonders if still in contact w/OW?

Our kids doesn't formally know about A, though I'm pretty sure they know something is up. OW's family was a large part of our social life, they noticed when we stopped talking or doing things w/them. We canceled vacation plans for next year w/them. They made the connection. We had held off telling the kids because I didn't want them to be in "limbo" with me.

I have Plan A the crap out of him, won't respond to anything, unless I bring up the topic he pretends like all is well. H thinks that somehow that everything will work out, cake eating. I've made it VERY clear that I won't be a part of his life when he leaves. I will NC him, only to go thru finances and sign D papers. But even then H thinks that he can come and go as he pleases.

H said that I do met his other EN, but not his SF. It started with not feeling that way for a couple months, but each time I talk to him it extends to years. H in PA for almost 1 yr, EA I think of several years. OW H found out about A and confronted H that is why I know. H remorseful? Yes, but unwilling to let OW go, even if only in his mind.

So now I am at a cross road. I am toe and nose to the wall he has built. The only other option is to push myself away so that I can gather what strength I have to recover.

I make the $ in the family, I can and will be able to support myself and kids. He has already said that he wants me to keep the house, but I don't know if he will become a jerk when push comes to shove.

I am ready to go to Plan B, if I don't then he will suck the life and love out of me. He is content to sit on the fence for as long as he can. I don't know what he's waiting for, I think to either force me to make his decision or he's waiting for a better option to come along (OW to move out and set up house?), maybe. H doesn't want to be the bad guy, leaving his family, so if I make the decision, he thinks he's in the clear. DELUSIONAL!

So I'm making plans, this where I need help. He did all our finances, we have a joint account, my checks get deposited automatically every 2 weeks and the check I get from 2nd job monthly manually. How do I separate my money without him knowing? I have started to track down all our bills so I can figure out monthly payments, if they are delinquent and about how much is payed each month.

Also, how do you separate from someone you have grown up with? I've been his wife for half my life, we are so integrated, I don't know where to begin.

Any and all advice is WELCOME!

Tami

Hi Tami4,

Have you exposed to everyone? His family, your family, your kids?

Either he's a glutton for shame and punishment, or not very many people know about his A. I'd expose at his work, church, any clubs that he belongs to...

I never planned-B Mrs. RIF so I don't have any experience to offer you in this area...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Tami,

U need a plan. Expose to all including your children. They s/b part of your support group and you a part of theirs.

Also read the following:

1. SAA - Surviving an AFfair - Harley
2. HNHN - His Needs/Her Needs - Harley
3. Love must be tough - Dobson

The 1st 2 will help you through plan A and the 3rd will help you with plan B.

Why do you think the OW wants the WS? Does she think she will be better off financially?

Protect your family's finances. Setup separate accounts. After you read the books, call Steve H @ MB for a plan.

take care,
L.

Never leave your home and tell him that you're planning to keep the house and the kids. Tell him he's the one that needs to leave.

Setup separate accounts and take back your finances. Let him know what he's responsible for each month $$$. Make sure he know it will cost him dearly.

Exposure, exposure and more exposure. Communicate with OWH and make sure you both know what the two WS are up to. Good luck.

I agree w/ (the wonderfully wise) orchid and mike.
Set up your separate accounts in your name only...do not tell him you are doing that. You need a snapshot of all your finances,insurance policies, tax returns, credit cards (be ready to cancel joint card and start your own), savings, pension plans, investments, bills. You do not want to tip your hand and let him wipe out your life savings to blow on OW.

Do this all in plan A, once your have everything in place, EXPOSE, EXPOSE,EXPOSE. TO EVERYONE. Shinning a light on a dirty little secret really takes the fun and adventure out of it. He will be mad. He will say nasty things. My WH was concerned I ruined OW reputation.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Full exposure is the most effective tool to stop the affair. Read the books, gather information and strength. Keep posting!

Orchid,

If you have time, my story is In Recovery/same subject name.

Yes, I do need a plan. I have exposed to everyone that is close to us, except the kids and his family (mom and sisters) who we are not close to. I won't be the one to tell the kids, that would make it too easy on H. He will have to look them in the eyes and try to justify his actions.

I have spoken to OW H, OW told him she was leaving "Not because of the money", but he says it has always been about money. OW works 3 days a week, gets her nails, hair and tans on a consistant basis. Her H works overtime to make up for the fact that she works only enough to get medical for the family. The rest of the time she'a a stay at home mom (her kids-boys 7th and 5th grade. Per her H, she thinks she will step into my life, vacations--remodeled kitchens--be in love--attentive H. I told him she should have had the A w/me instead.

I'll look for those books again. Borders didn't have them last I checked, may have to order them.

At this point H has no idea that I'm thinking this. Other then not showing affection (hugs/kiss) things are the same. He just thinks I'm feeling a "little down" and that I'm giving him time to "find his feelings for me." He does know something is going on cause he's been telling me where and when he leaves the house. To me those are just breadcrumbs...keep me from talking about the ugly stuff.

How do you separate your joint account w/o tipping your hand? Can you really just call Steve H....and does it cost a lot of $$$?

Tami

Hi Tami,
I recently found and am reading the Love Must Be Tough book. Couldnt find it at the bookstore without ordering and I'm not the patient type when I try to devise a plan. So I found it at my local library. Its not a huge book, and it doesnt cost anything to check it out. The good thing is, if its a book you want to keep, you can order one from Borders, while you are reading the one from the library. So far , its good information that I am finding very helpful.

Take care

We had a huge fight. I was driving thru his work parking lot, and saw OW's car. She doesn't usually work on wed. So when he called he was all casual....didn't bring up that she was there. So I said I saw her car, he said that he was going to tell me later that night. "What am I suppose to do, I can't control her schedule. Now you are going to be a short and bitter. I didn't want to get into it w/you cause I knew you would be like this." is what he said. I was so mad I said "fine, goodbye" and I hung up.

He walked in about 20 minutes later (his work is 5 mins away,that is why I drove thru parking lot, it's a short cut home). Said he wanted to talk, started in on me. Saying if I keep acting like this how is that going to help? I said don't take that tone with me, don't lay your guilt trip at my feet. How was I suppose to act, knowing that you are spending time with the woman you "love", should I just grin and bear it? Tell you everything is just wonderful? No worries?

I said you've done what you wanted, sitting on the fence just waiting. What are you waiting for? You tell me you don't feel passion for me, and that you haven't for years. Not sure if you ever will. He said I expected too much from him too soon. I said I expected him to at least edge off the fence a little bit. Make some kind of decision. If I do too much then I'm pressuring him if not enough then I'm bitter and angry. What am I suppose to do? Then he grabbed some stuff. Said it's too hard to continue like this. Then he left.

He called later to say that he's probably not coming home tonight. I asked where he was going, he said he's not sure, maybe to find a piece of grass somewhere or to take a walk. He was at work right now. I told him he didn't have to do that, he can come home. We are going to have to talk about it and it may get ugly, but what happened is ugly. He said we can't even have a normal night together. I said nothing is normal anymore. He said he's not sure what he was going to do, but don't wait up or worry. I said how can I not worry? Then he had to go.

So I drove over when he was scheduled to get off, hoping to catch him so we can talk. But he was already gone, so was OW's car. I drove by OW house but it wasn't there either. I guess she did move out. I'm pretty sure he's with her, need a shoulder to cry on. Now what?

Be careful of what you ask for, this is much worse then I was prepared for. There's no going back. If he is with her, then it's over. I won't share no matter how much I may want this to work out. Who knows maybe it was all planned out. I told him that I wasn't sure why he was here with me...was it because he wanted to work on M, had no where else to go or waiting for OW? He said I must think he's a scumbag to do that to me, HELLO...he had an A for almost a year. What else was I suppose to think since he's kept me in the dark.

He said what do you want from me? I want him to tell me that he's committed to saving our M, that I am more important to him then the OW and that he's willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. But he said again too much too soon.

I told him if he can't do that then maybe we should separate, but we can work out something. He said he's not so sure about that.

I guess if OW is in the wings, then leaving me is not such a big deal. Why come home to disappointment when you can have fantasy land? Cause I'm real and what he thinks he has w/her is wrong.

I think I'm in shock. I know as soon as I stop posting then it's going to hit me hard. Here we go....

Tami

Tami,

You have laid down your current status, now is the time for you to stop and step back.

He is going to find a piece of grass? That's babble.

No sense trying to talk sense to him right now. Expect him t/b with the OW and if that is too much for you to handle, get someone to stay with you.

Don't write this M off unless that is what you want regardless of what he does. Right now your emotions are riding high and not a good time t/b making life changing decisions.

Keep posting as much as you need.

take care,
L.

Tami,

I'm glad you got over here. I will keep track of you over here if you spend more time here for a while.

FTS

I'm glad you posted when you did. I found myself driving around at 3am looking for them. Going thru local hotels, where she use to live. I had to fight the urge to pound on her door. H was out all night, I think he came home right after I left for work his a.m. I have not slept at all.

About 4pm, I called him but he wasn't at home. So I called him at work but he wasn't due in til 5pm. I called him not to "hear" from him, I wanted to know if he was coming home tonight. Cause if he wasn't I was going to take something to sleep, cause I can't do my job half dead. It's a wonder that I've made it this long w/o dropping.

He called me back. I did ask him where he was last night. He said he couldn't talk right now. I said I see. He called me back, said he is coming home tonight and for me to meet him at his lunch hour (8:30pm).

So I'm trying to keep myself calm. I'll let him talk and I'll just listen. Then I'm going to tell him that it's time for him to leave. I can't live like this either. I spent all of last night warring w/myself. Is he okay? Is he w/her? I need him, I don't want him. He's a jacka$$. Hope they crash and burn. I finally got reason back....about 7am.

I can only control my actions. I will not take on his delusional crap. I'm not guilty of anything other then loving him. And if that's not enough, then he's not enough of a man to get it. I deserve much more then he's giving me.

I am preparing myself for him to tell me the worst case senerio. But at this point I don't think I would believe anything he has to say. But I really believe he's going to tell me that he's leaving for good. He likes to not deal w/conflict. And he sees me a walking conflict even if I not saying or doing anything.

Breathe, keep calm, breathe some more. I can do this. All my friends tell me I'm so much more then this M. It doesn't define me as a person. Got to believe that.

Wish me luck, strength, and courage to not falter.

Tami

Prayers are with you Tami. And each of is far more than the M, but, it is/was something we want. I know you have already spoken to him, if the talk took place. I hope you are doing okay. Let us know

Have to work, will check in when I can

FTS

Tami, I would set out a strategy here and stick with it instead of reacting to his every move. For example, there are numerous exposure opportunities here that have not been taken. I would make up an exposure list, sit down and just start calling people. Start with their employer, your WS' parents, siblings, the OW's family.

Have you personally spoken to the OWH? Are you keeping in touch so you can keep tabs on them?

And most importantly, your children must be told the truth. NOT BY A LIAR. But by YOU. They need to hear the full truth from their only sane parent, not from the insane parent who is likely to lie and spin the story. They need your moral guidance now more than ever. They KNOW something is wrong and they need to know.

I would also suggest meeting with the OW. Here is what Dr. Harley told another BS to say to the OW: "I would encourage you to (in a nice way) ask her to leave your husband alone, that you love him, that you love your children, and want them to have a mother and father who love each other. It's not in her best interest to break up your family, especially if it would become her family some day. She would be eternally hated by your children."

Do all the above in a calm, rational, determined manner. Focus on calming yourself down and not reacting to his behavior. I know this is hard, but your emotions are your greatest enemy right now.

Once this is all done, I would suggest preparing for Plan B. Seperate your finances like others recommended and make sure he can't access your money. You will need to get him to move out FIRST before you go into Plan B.

Tami,

Just checking on you. How are you?
Also, check out Mark's rant and raves for newbies thread. There is a lot of good infor there for you.

FTS

bump

Moved for Tami from other post


To start I have read all your post, I too wished that I found this when I first started MB. But I was lucky cause MR.G had posted and gave me the boost I needed to continue.
Thanks Mr.G!

About 5 days ago, I was ready to start Plan B. My WH has been fence sitting since DD(7/2/07), I had thought that I was doing the right things w/Plan A, but after reading your post I now know that I was expecting too much from WH too soon. I was looking for a pat on the head from him, cause I was sooooo caring and loving, but when it didn't happen I became discouraged and the pain would overwhelm me.

Last wed. we had a huge "disagreement" about the OW (they work together....were friends.....became lovers that last a year), I was upset because when WH called he didn't disclose that OW was working. I had seen her car in the parking lot. Hurtful things were said and he ended up not coming home that night. I of course didn't sleep and KNEW that they were together. I even drove by her house at midnight and again at 3am, her car was not there.

I had made up my mind by 7am that it was over, I can't control what he does, only what I can do. I didn't speak w/WH on thurs. at all til 4pm. I made the call to his work, he called me back. I called to see if he was coming home that night (fully expected him to say no) but he said he was and to meet him at his work during his lunch hour.

The conversation consist of "what to do now?" I told him that I will never go thru what I did last night, and that in my mind he had already made a decision when he didn't come home. I told him it's time for him to leave, that my heart can't take anymore of his crap. He was surprise that I was so calm about it, he even pointed that out "You say that like you don't care." I told him that he is sucking the life and love out of me, and if this continues then I will be a shell of a person that wouldn't be good for anyone.

He asked if I wanted him to leave tonight, I asked him if he had a place to go. He said he didn't. I told him to come home tonight. Remember, I've been up since 5am on wed. a.m. I told him I was too tired tonight to deal with the details.

WH assured me that he was NOT with OW the night before, I told him at this time I don't care who he's with. But he did tell me that OW had moved out. Also that she's been calling the store when he works to talk w/him. WH told her that he's trying to work things out w/me. Why is he even talking to her? I know why, stupid question.

I told him that if he continues talking w/OW, then he is still in the A. I will NOT compete, or close my eyes to let him do what he wants. If he didn't value me, then so be it....leave. But I know I will not settle or let him to continue to demean me any longer.

I told him that I love him very much, that is why I'm still trying to work on our M. And that I will always love him, but his love is not being returned to me. There's only so long I can hold my hands out to him before I get tired of it being slapped away. I am at that point.

He was quiet for a while, then he said "I don't want to leave. I will never find anyone like you, no one measures up to you." I said then come home tonight and we will talk again tomorrow. But he's to NOT have any contact w/OW ever again. He agreed (again).

Next day, he told me that he's closing the book on his A. That after I told him to leave he understands clearly what he would be losing. He is 100% committed to working on our M.

Here's the problem: He doesn't want to do MC, thinks it's a bunch of bs. All they will tell him is that he's a scumbag and a loser, he already knows this. He also wants to tell OW to not contact him any longer at work, he will not talk w/her. But I told him I wanted to hear him tell her, but he said he won't do that to her. I said your secret time w/her is over, if you can't talk w/me there then that means you are still harboring feelings for her. Her well being should NOT be your first concern. He then said he just won't call her. The other thing is that he's set up an e-mail, so that she could text him, but he's justify e-mail w/other contacts. He said that he won't give up the e-mail account,and if she e-mails him then he'll just delete them w/o looking at them.

He also said that once he closes the book on this, he doesn't want me to keep bring it up. That we should move on from there. And if I can't trust him to keep his word then we don't have a chance to make our M work.

I didn't say anything regarding this, b/c I was trying to make sense of it. Did he not just say he wanted to work out the M? But he feels like he has the power to dictate what and how to do it? Did he not break our M vows and had an A?

Need another pair of eyes and ears. I've been reading a lot of posts the last couple of days. I read the thread re: Raising the bar. I started a letter outlining my boundaries, but after reading your posts. Maybe since he's starting to come out of his fog, I should hold off. Or am I being naive?

I have been very blessed with everyone who's read my threads and responded.

I'm still a "newbie" compare to everyone who has posted here. But I'm asking for help, cause I really need to find a way to heal. So if anyone wants to chime in, I'm all ears/eyes.

Tami4

My poster is "Head and Heart ready to explode", in recovery and G-Discussion if you need more background.

Thanks in advance to even taking the time to read this.

--------------------
BS-38 (me)
WS-42 (deep in fog)
Married 19yrs
met H at 16, dated at 17, married at 18.
DD-19
DS-16
they don't know.
D-day: 7/2/07
A length:11 months,EA 2-3yrs
OW married, w/2 younger kids-Her H knows about A.she's moved out.

"Having an extramarital affair is like eating dessert when you are on a diet: The pleasure is short, the guilt is long and the habit can ruin your life."
Tami4

Fog Babble, fog babble........He is not committed if he is negotiating surrender. Someone said "unconditional surrender", then you will know he is serious.

Tami

there is a sample letter for the NC letter here. It is to be written by him and approved by you, and sent by both of you. It is a NC letter, not a I'll miss you and care about you but need to do this letter. It must clearly show her that there is no hope for a renewed relationship. That he is dedicated to recovering his M and F. That his W and COM needs are more important than anyone else. He may not put the OW's needs before the needs of the M or his children in this letter. The relationship is over, done, out. It is not his responsiblity to be concerned for her, it is her husband and family's. She must deal with fixing her own mess.

FTS

FTS,

Thanks again for directing me to Mark's rant. It really clarify the Plans. I've been in limbo....trying to figure out what is real or my imagination.

Mark had responded, which was very helpful.

My H has been acting like all is well, the nicer I am to him though the more uncomfortable he seems. He doesn't ask me to meet him for his lunch break, and he calls me towards the end of his lunch so we can't talk for long. I've not stayed up until he comes home from work the last couple of nights either. Though I don't really sleep, more of a dose until I hear him come in. He's been home at regular hour each night.

This a.m, I noticed that he got into a bottle of wine that I've been saving for my pity party. Half the bottle was gone, but I didn't find a wine glass. He said he had a problem with cork, but it was intact. I know I'm fixating on the wine, cause he's not a wine drinker and there is a case of his fav. beer in the fridge. Weird!

So do you think that since he "closed the book on his A", he's having doubts about whether he did the right thing? To be honest, really honest....I wish he would just figure it out. I still get the nervous feelings, and get panic attacks (which I have NEVER had until this happened....really ticks me off by the way) but they come and go much quicker. And I think about him w/OW and part of me really hopes he choose this so he can see what he dismissed was actually the BEST he will ever get. But with my luck so far, they probably make it forever.(the wine talking there.)

I'm in a weird mood tonight. I'm not sure if it's the wine or maybe I'm feed up. Or maybe cause I've not eaten for about 2 days!

I alternate between he's doing right by me to he's up to something. I have to fight the urge to drive over to check and see if she is there. Is he talking to her at lunch or are they meeting at his lunch hour? But when I do snoop, I never find anything. And I'm very good at snooping....been doing it since I was a kid.

I wish I was better with the computer, I wonder if there is a way to piggyback on his e-mail so anything that goes to him would go to my e-mail w/o him knowing it. Any computer whiz out there to help?

I have not found the NC letter,but I don't know if my H would be willing to do that. He seems to think that he needs to "do right" by her, I think he's promised her things that he's not able to keep. So he feels guilty about that. I don't know if he feels as guilty about what he's done to me as much. I think he sees me day in and day out, that it becomes the norm. Since I have not left or kicked him out I must be okay with everything, but poor OW she's moved out of her home, she's all alone, and she really needs a friend. What would be the harm to talk w/ her? My W will never find out...right?

I want to write him a letter to tell my boundaries. I'm just not sure I can w/o LBing him. Any thoughts on this? I've done a outline and I have been reading CV--raising the bar posts. I will write the letter and then post it to get some input. I'm just so tired of fighting for and against him. I'm sick of the roller coaster ride.

Oh, did I tell you that he booked our vacation for next year to Hawaii? He said it is his way to show me that he is committed to working out our M. Isn't that like a reward we've not earned yet? Or am I being harsh....take the gesture as it was meant to be? I think it's easy to move towards something pleasant, but what does he think will happen between now and then? Damn fog, I really need a strong wind to kick him in the head!

I've got to go. The wine has gotten to my head.

Thanks for listening to my whining!! (Get it, WINING!)

Tami <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tami,

He feels loyalty to the OW? What a wuz! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

He has to work this out himself and if he gets egg on his face, in the interim.... don't wipe it off.... he needs t/d it himself.

No more fav beer in the fridge. He'd better learn to drink... milk or something to strengthen his character. Milk does a body good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for the trip to Hawaii....go on come out here. You've got MB supporters even in Hawaii. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.