what he meant is that i have been truthful but then will omit smaller lies that are relevant to the situation. omission. we both filled out the questionnaire and plan to implement. i'm grateful that my H is giving me another chance to fight for us, our marriage and family. there's just alot of pain and hurt and with that comes love busters.

vercingetorix6-

I feel for you. I hope that the pain of her 'serial cheating' hasn't jaded you completely. And if you can still work this out, then God bless you man, you are a better person than I am, but no one would blame you if you decided this marriage was wounded beyond repair.

But since you obviously have love for her. I do hope with every fiber of my being that this works out for your sake and the sake of your children.

vercswife-

You should be omitting NOTHING, you are very lucky he hasn't started divorce proceedings.

Exactly how many times do you think you can screw someone over before they will no longer be able to stand the sight of you?

I hear you saying you confessed, I assume you mean to your priest......YOU NEED TO CONFESS EVERY DETAIL TO YOUR HUSBAND.

You're incessantly going on about "how can I change?" "Why did I do this?" "How can I regain respect for my husband?"

Only you can answer the "How" and the "Why", as for the regaining respect for your husband........you don't respect him?!?!?! Good Lord woman, I respect him and I don't even know him!!!!!!!

What you need to concentrate on is how on earth he can EVER respect or trust YOU again.

And something that I have found BLATANTLY missing from all your posts is REMORSE.......I haven't heard you say you were sorry one time. And that I find absolutely ridiculous!!!

And about "love busters"...... who's "love busters" are we speaking of??? I can only assume that you mean the things you've said and done to him, because I REALLY can't fathom that you would think of anything he says to you as love busting.

Have you written an NC letter to your ONS????

I honestly don't know what is going to keep you from continuing to be a 'repeat offender', you seem to get some kind of twisted pleasure from watching your husband bleed.

Make NO mistake......you ARE NOT his wife. YOU are a WAYWARD SPOUSE. Even if the affair is over.....You remain a WAYWARD SPOUSE until proven otherwise, and that can only be accomplished by complete honesty (NO OMISSIONS) and you actions. Words mean NOTHING!!!!!!! You've said these things to him before and proven yourself a liar and an adulterer.

Get out of this self pity mode and get on with the business of being a moral human being.

God Bless,

Caren

thanks for your "pro marriage" response. Our marriage is NOT beyond repair thank you. Yes i ****** up, made mistakes, but i'm human. I am remorseful and have said i'm sorry...because i am.
There has been NC and the A's are over. Yes i am very lucky that my H is still here by myside fighting for us and our family. But it has something to do with the kind of person I was prior to the affairs. We had something very special. I have taken him forgranted, disrespected him, betrayed him. I lost sight of what was important to me- changed value system to allow this disgusting, destructive behaviour to happen. I know the changes have to start with me. I have a lot of work to do. We have work to do on our marriage. I have caused my H to also have A's due to all the pain and hurt I have caused him. I have made a mess of our lives. But am committed to working threw this and making our marriage stronger and better.

vercswife-

Make no mistake....I am pro-marriage, as I stated in the beginning of my post "But since you obviously have love for her. I do hope with every fiber of my being that this works out for your sake and the sake of your children."

And I didn't say "Your marriage IS beyond repair" I said that no one would blame your husband if he DECIDED that it was wounded beyond repair.

I'm sorry if you found my post distasteful, I just thought you needed a wake up call.....you're going to have to work long and hard and own up to EVERYTHING you've done. You're going to hear some things that are hard to hear.

Look vercswife, I don't dislike you, I don't know you, I was just giving you my impression of the posts as I read them.

By saying that you are a Wayward Spouse, I meant no disrespect.....until you've gone through all the things that a WS has to go through to get back to being a "spouse" you continue to be a WS, and your H remains a BS.

I am proud of you if there has been NC, but a NC letter still needs to be sent. Written by you, reviewed by your husband and sent.

I do not excuse your husband for any affairs either, two wrongs do not make a right.

It's just that in the posts I've read from your husband regarding the latest senquence of events his pain comes through loud and clear.

I, as a former BS, can sympathize with his pain in a way, and in yet another way I have no idea how he could deal with it happening multiple times....hence my comment he was a better person than I was.

I was very distraught, depressed, had extreme difficulty eating or sleeping for about 6 months, was even suicidal at one point. I cannot imagine a repeat of that....I don't even know if it's possible for me...after going through that kind of h*ll, and emerging on the other side I don't believe I would react in the same manner, I think I would just be done with the whole thing....and I DO NOT believe in divorce.

And as a former BS, I would like nothing better than for you to turn your life around and become a better person, a stronger person who can be committed to your marriage. But you have to understand the amount of damage this does, it's absolutely life altering, and some marriages, some BS's can't come back from it.

You need to demonstrate why this time is different, why this is not the same as the other times you've only been going through the motions.....I can only assume that you were still in the "fog" of being unfaithful and just going the path of least resistance by going along with pseudo-recovery.

Vercswife, I do not bear you any ill will, I really honestly hope that you two can make it....but you have to be ULTRA committed to this, even when it's hard, even when he says things that are mean and hateful, even when he doesn't believe things you're telling him are true, even when you don't feel like any of this is helping....you have to stay the course.

You have a very long road ahead of you.

Keep posting here, other former WS's can give you their points of view, and tell you how they got through any particular thing that you may be going through at the time.

I hope that you didn't take my post as a flame, because that was not my intention.

God Bless,

Caren

I appreciate your posts. ofcourse i am going to hear things that i don't like, but it's good that i hear it and get a different perspective.
i am blessed to have my H. It's a miracle he is still with me. i have betrayed him and his pain is so great. i was lostand now i have found my way back. i don't want to lose my H and destroy my family. It would be the biggest mistake and regret of my life. i am scared. i know the road ahead will be hard and long but i have to fight for us and our family. i won't give up- just as my H hasn't. we never really affair proofed our marriage before. we never imagined that this could happen to us.but now i am trying the radical honesty, transparency, did emotional needs questionare, policy of joint agreement, spiritual counseling and I need to see a therapist as well. we also have support from our families. i love my H and am very remorseful for what i have done.Also all the hurt, pain and betrayal my H feels.
thank you for your advice

yes its hard and i have been ready to give up many many times over the last few years. There was no excuse for my affairs but i was staring down the barrel of the gun of emotional abandonment probable destruction of my family. I regret them now but i was desperate for some releif from the immasculation and hurt of having my life torn to pieces before my eyes.

the major issue as i see it is the lying and deciet, there has been so many many times i have looked my wife in the eyes and asked a direct question and gotten a lie. Its obvious I cannot trust her out of my sight now and we have to work on it. However this cannot be the final result, i expect that my wife will get tempted and opportunities will present themselves despite my best intentions at affair proofing my marriage. if she wants other people she should not be with me, its that simple.

2 of her affairs were conducted under my jealous suspicious nose. She will always find a way to do it if thats her intention. i expect to get the same love and respect back i give, that means she should be able to go on a business trip and be on the telephone with me 5 times that day and not jump off the phone and hook up with someone else if the opportunity presents itself. She knows she wants to be able to trust me that way and thats one of the reasons she married me. She knew that i remained faithful to my first wife even in the face of years of cheating. She knew she could trust me but i think that became boring.

Character is what we do when noone is looking not what we do when people are watching. This is absolutly my most important emotional need, trust. Lockdown is not good enough for me, i want what i know we had for 12 years or so a mariage noone could touch, these days it seems any man can get between me and my wife and any friend can influence her to turn her heart from me. Both situations are totally unacceptable. her sudden moral ambiguity frightens me, she suddenly has and follows ideas which even she admits are totally opposite to her stated beleifs. Suddenly we have to define whats right and wrong and what lying is and what deceit is.

i feel as if my good qualitites of loyalty, fidelity and unwavering love have been not only used against me but are the cause of my being disrespected.

She has alot of work to do and this has been a life changing event for me and i am rather scared at all the new emotions inside of me, i am glad i have kept it together for my family and not just run away from this, but my cup is full and i am very suspicious, bitter and hurt. i am depressedd all the time and have been for 2 years. I get little enjoyment from any of the activities which i enjoyed before. Life tastes like cardbboard these days and i have lost my faith in family , marriage and love. The 3 things i based my entire life around.

I am praying she has truly changed and turned back. There are some positive signs but there are also a few negative signs like her lack of follow throuigh on this realization after her last event and the lack of closure (we are working on a NC)

She is trying though and i think deep down she still loves me, we will just have to see if she can wake up from this nightmare.

Its like watching the person you love and worship slowly die before your eyes and you can do nothing to stop it. I feel like i am in mourning for the woman i loved who i haven't seen in 2 years and who i may never see again.
I miss her and i am still waiting for her to come back because she was the best part of my life.

vercingetorix6-

I know what it's like to feel like your watching the person you love and planned on loving for the rest of your life slowly dying. I've been there.

My husband still isn't who he used to be.....maybe he never will be, or maybe it'll just take time.

I do know that he loves me, I do know that he is trying, but that it's a struggle for the both of us.

I have often wondered exactly why I put up with the things I did, I cannot stop loving my husband, if I could have I would have a long time ago when I was in all the tormoil of his affair. I would have stopped loving him then and there......but it's too strong, it's not in my control.

I know it's very fresh for you....that there are triggers everywhere.

The triggers have died down for me, for the most part. And when I do have them, I am now able to shake them from my mind.

God Bless,

Caren

I read this quote from your husband fifteen months ago -

"Nothing is going to stop it, not her priest, her family, her church, her children or her supposed love for me is going to stop her. i have cried, raged, and bled enough for her."

Now, a long time later, what changes have you made? Have you had any counseling?

Thats a question i would like to see a good answer to myself. As we sit down and read some of the literature wehave printed out from the MB site I am painfully aware that many of the printed dates are from right before the last PA. In fact I was on the phone toi my wife 5-8 times that day she had the PA away on a business trip, she may even have been on the phone with me within an hour of the event. Such cruel disregard for my openly displayed hurt and feelings to her that weekend tears me to pieces. i was very very dpressed that weekend and we talked alot.

I know she loves me and I love her, but can she stop this behaviour and why must she have other people if she loves me?

Must i now accept where we are after 14 years and 2 kids, that i am uncertain if she will decide she must see other people and i must choose between my family and an open marriage. Nevermind that an open marriage is just shopping, but when you shop cionstantly you eventually buy.

"She knows she wants to be able to trust me that way and thats one of the reasons she married me. She knew that i remained faithful to my first wife even in the face of years of cheating. She knew she could trust me but i think that became boring."

I think my WXS did something similar: specifically chose me to marry BECAUSE of an assumption that I would never cheat AND that I would never leave him because of his cheating... but then eventually lost all respect and desire for me because I shut up and put up with it for too long.

I have not been following your situation very closely but it certainly sounds as if your wife is a serial adulterer.

IMHO you should probably got to Plan B and stay there until/if she has gotten help with her serial adultery and dishonesty problems.

One thing that needs to go is her traveling away from home. She has proven that she CANNOT resist other men wyhile she is away. She needs a job where she is home every night.

serial adulterer..?? how can that be? i hadn't done anything like this in the prior 12 years. Something is wrong- i do need to seek professional help. i have already gone for spiritual counseling- I have to set up appointment with a therapist. Had gone before and was diagnosed as suffering from anxiety, compulsive disorder and clinical depression. I believe it could stem from post pardom depression and death in the family. Not to simplify things but i did feel like i was going threw i crisis. I want to get help and save our marriage. I don't think plan B is what my husband should do. How can we work on us if he is not here?

My H never use to have to worry before. but things are not the way they use to be. He was trying to be understanding and supportive of my new business. but unfortunately my business partner is the devil and he shouldn't have allowed me to go. i am not putting the blame on him or my partner at the time. i was not ready to be travelling with my ****** partner so soon after the previous A. I use to feel strong but now i do not.

Vercswife - A serial adulterer is someone who commits adultery several times - that would be you.

Good job on going to counseling, and I agree that something is wrong. But what we suggest at MB is that, while you are going to counseling to sort it all out, that you put some actions in place to protect your marriage.

You must not travel away from home. Whatever the problem is, travel away seems to exacerbate it.

You need to find friends that support the marriage, people who are happily married themselves.

Stay off the computer, and have an open policy where your husband has your passwords, and can check what you are doing. Installing a keylogger would be a good idea. Also make sure he has copies of all of your cell phone records.

Fifteen hours a week spending time with him doing fun things is a necessity. The rest of your time you can spend time doing family things.

the problem is moral ambiguity, if you think its not sex if you don't actually have standard sex you are being morally ambiguous, if you think its not wrong to make out with someone when you are married or with someone thats morally ambiguous. Her value system has vanished, suddenly there are new parameters to what is lying, new parameters too what consitutes sex or cheating. New concepts of whats permissable in a marriage.

How could i have stopped her from going away, its my job as her husband to support her dreams and goals, not stand in the way of them because i have a bruised ego. But even that good deed gets used against me and pinned on me. If i had stopped her and ruined her business there would have been resentment about that too and i would probably be in the same boat i am now. I was busy working hard on helping her get her dreams accomplished, that meant i had to give 100% outside of my own desires, i was neglected then also and suffering from the previous affair but i had to put all that aside to do the right thing and support my wife. But that somehow is a weakness rather than a strength.

Opportunities always present themselves thats why affair proofing is good but not the only thing that must be done, trust must be there or this will simply happen again at the earliest possible oppportunity that presents itself.

There must be some way for her to deal with this in another way than expecting me to stop all EA's before they start by sealing her off from thne world now.
It must essentially come from her, inside her heart. I can help but i can only do so much to affair proof if she wants the to have one. I think the wanting to have one or many is the problem not the opportunities to have them. She had many opportunities in our first 12 years of marriage and apparently she had no trouble keeping things safe back then.

There is. Get a marriage counselor who can help her understand the concept of "boundaries". Once she understands how not enforcing a boundary earlier rather than later can put your marriage at risk, perhaps she'll become better at keeping those boundaries firm and in place.

My (F)WW struggled with that same issue for several months after d-day and into recovery. But she's got it now. It sounds as though your wife is still somewhat "foggy"...it takes a good bit of time and effort to clear that fog out completely.

You don't need to stop her from anything. She needs to stop herself. It is good that she is going to get some counseling, and figure things out. In the meantime, she needs to police herself, until she gets stronger. You need to verify everything.

Vercings wife - I see a lot of excuses, and blame shifting to other people - your old friends, your devil partner, the state of the marriage.

But the truth is, YOU made the decision to betray your vows. Personally, I'm not buying that you don't know truth from lies, or what is inappropriate for a married woman.

I am not trying to blame others for what i have done. i am a big girl and responsible for my own actions. i am trying to understand the whys and hows? just trying to understand my state of mind- how i could do something like this again and again.

she is making an effort and trying

I can absolutely guarantee you a better life tomorrow if you scrape together about $550.

First you should make a phone call to a professional polygraph examiner. You have ZERO reason to believe anything your wife says to you at this point. ZERO. She should submit to a polygraph to clear up the events of the past. That is the first part of my guarantee.
If she fails, you send her lying butt packing and NEVER look back...
If she passes, then use the remaining money to call the Harley's to begin putting together a blueprint for a brighter future.
Absent a polygraph exam you will go though months if not years of betrayals from this woman. They all lie and usually it takes a dramatic event to get them to come clean. You have been tortured enough for 5 lifetimes...give yourself the peace of mind regarding historical events that only a polygraph can provide.
Her failure to submit to the test should be, IMO, handled in the same fashion as if she failed.

One time, one chance...no looking back. She should welcome the opportunity to give you this small amount of peace of mind.