Guess this might be like my previous question about how to respond to ILYBINILWU, but here goes...

How do you all recommend responding to WS's being fixated on all the past failures in the marriage and be open to the greatness of the present and clear potential of the future?

tell her, (if what i am about to say is true for you) with much passion: "regardless of everything that has occured, you believe the two of you are meant for each other."

and if i may be so bold. quietly and sincerly apologize for past hurts you have inflicted on her.

You recognize it for what it really is: an attempt to rewrite history in order to justify the affair; a manipulation. Then treat her as if you would a falling down drunk whose mind does not use or recognize REASON.

Agreed Melody!!

I've heard this same speech myself, and was taken back for a moment when I heard it and, and then recognized it for what it was: a history rewrite, and a way to transfer the blame for his affair to me and how mistreated he'd been.......what a load of crapola.

God Bless,


Caren

Well, it's not so much a revision as it is focusing solely on the "bad" - and there was plenty of it.

If they don't focus on the "bad" things in YOUR marriage or what YOU'VE done......then they'd have to take a good, hard look at themselves.....and they don't wanna do that.

God Bless,

Caren

Hey Capitan!

This is right out of the WS "play book"... When she starts this line of questions...

Just say "Hey, let's go to CiCi's!!!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

Hey Capt.,



This is it in a nutshell. My FWH held on to resentment for love busting I had done over a decade. Even tho I had really been working hard on reducing/eliminating LB's since our d-day in 2003, he was still focusing on them.

It finally dawned on me a few months ago that although I had forgiven him for the worst possible betrayal, he hadn't forgiven me for things I had said to him TEN YEARS EARLIER. He was still holding on deep inside to the thought that his affair was somehow my responsibility as much or even more than his.

When I finally realized this, I asked him if I was still doing those things, he said no. So I asked him why he was unable to forgive me.

It was a light bulb going on when he realized that for the most part, it was his resentment and failure to forgive the past that was keeping us from recovering.

Sometimes FOG and babble hang around way too long.

Who

I personally would recommend she see an therapist who deals in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It sounds like she is stuck in negative thinking patterns.

Something like this: "I did a bad thing, therefore I am a bad person and will always be." type patterns.

This advice is from a BTDT POV.

CBT changed my life.

Edited to add: It helps with the babble too. I spewed that on and off for 2 years after I ended the A.

LC

And let me guess...... you would be starring as the demon?? LOL We know dat trick! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Capitan: I Agree with all the above (excpet RIF's suggestion to go to CiCi's - my town is devoid of that restaurant alas). It's just fog-talk meant to distract you from the adultery and the WS's responsibility for that.

I think WhoMe is right about the WS failure to forgive thing. I also recently realized that my WXH has a problem forgiving. In fact I don't know why I didn't see it sooner since "I'll never forgive you for: (insert some minor flaw and/or how I responded to his adulteries here)" was something he said a lot.

Also, take some encouragement from what lifeschoice said about it maybe taking a long time and some therapy before the WS stops the blaming the BS babble. Plus I agree that the withdrawal/recovery time is longer because the 'friendship' (emotional affair) stage is a factor.

Don't expect immediate signs from your WS that they are back to normal or you'll just feel disappointment.

Oh lord......have they remained "friends".....that's a HUGE no no....that'll never fly.

God Bless,

Caren

WOW. I am disgusted with this thread.

Even you RIF???

Maybe it's because I don't konw Captian's exact situation at all to understand why you are responding the way you are.

I'll admit, i don't know the specifics of his situation.

Regardless, if this is true, specifically the bolded part:


Then i stand behind my original post.

Captian, you wanted to know how. What I told you is EXACTLY what got me to stop what i was doing and confess.

Can you even begin to understand how difficult it was for me to come to the decision to confess?? I had to really have been turned around from wanting out of the marriage to wanting back in.

Isn't that what you were asking, what can i do to get my wife to want back in, to let go of the past and see a future?

If that is what you want, please think about what I said and consider following that advise as opposed to flippently responding to her as others suggest.

I was a WW remember? Ever consider the fact that those questions are not a trick to allow her to keep doing what she is doing, it is a cry for help. A cry for hope.

I suppose I shouldn't be so surprised by some of the responses in this thread given what I have read here the last few days in various other threads.

Except in the case of RIF. RIF, your response really surprised me.

ok, i was too hasty. there are some good responses in here too....

like
I'm glad that made the light bulb go off in your case WhoMe.

and i'm glad you talked to him about it instead of flippenly ignoring the babble talk as others have suggested.

FLTH, he should not respond fippantly to her, but he most certainly should NOT take her complaints seriously when she is in the FOG of an addictive affair. He should not try to reason with her or allow her to use manufactured GRIEVANCES to manipulate him or to justify her affair. THIS IS WHAT ALL WAYWARDS DO.

He should never ACT on FOGBABBLE because that only emboldens her. That doesn't mean that he is "flippant" with her to have a correct understanding of her mentality and to refuse to be manipulated.

That being said, once she is OUT of the fog, and recovery BEGINS, they can discuss grievances ON BOTH SIDE and learn new behaviors designed to meet each others needs. He should give his wayward wife the opportunity to EARN his forgiveness by allowing her to JUSTLY COMPENSATE him for her affair. But until recovery happens, he should not allow her to manipulate him with manufactured grievances.

I saw response here with flippent suggestions. so now you are agreeing with me?

you agree that a responses of "Just say "Hey, let's go to CiCi's!!!" (sorry to pick on you now RIF) is not good advice?

good to hear.

melody, you say manufacured grievances. I saw Captain admit there were bad things in their past.

recovery can only BEGIN if the WS decides they want back in.

that seemed to be his question.

my advice was based on what helped me get there.

i think there is merit to helping BSs not take to heart what they are hearing. ABSOLUTELY.

But his ACTIONS should be those of a loving spouse. and loving spouses don't ignore each other.

what ACTION are you really suggesting to Captain then? to respond to her or to ignore her?

FinallyLrningT2H

I hope you aren't disgusted with my reply because it was meant as serious advice. I am a FWS and was very stuck in the past. I was spewing babble on and off long after my A was over and even after my confession. It wasn't until NC was firmly in place, 2 years after I ended my A, that I could apply the CBT principles I learned in therapy to get back to normal again.

I wasn't being sarcastic about seeking therapy, I was serious.

LC

FTH, I think it is great advice to invite her out to Cici's. I have suggested to him before that he comment on her toe nail polish when she goes off like that. It emphasizes that he should not take her grievances to heart at this time.

I am sure there were some bad things in the past, but I am also sure that a FOGGED OUT, lying, manipulating wayward will dramatize and exaggerate every perceived fault going back to day 1 in order to manipulate the situation.

Recovery begins WHEN the affair ends and the WS is through withdrawal. That has not happened here. As it is, he is dealing with a severely fogged out, manipulative wayward. Allowing himself to be manipulated by a rapist will not lead to recovery.

lifeschoice, sorry i should have included your post as another example of good advice.

I too have been helped by CBT principles.

WITHOUT a doubt Captains WW needs therapy. The only thing is, right now, I don't think Captain suggesting to WW to go therapy would go over very well or help her see hope for them.

what things did you DH do to convince you to come back to the marriage. I see you confessed too. What got you there?

I'm sure some of it was looking at yourself. No way that could not be part of it. But weren't there moments, things your DH said or actions he did that helped you too?

I remember those moments quite vividly. And that is what I shared.

that seems to be what Captain needs to hear. What got thru to us when we were soooooooooo messed up!!!