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HI, I am new here .. I been reading alot on this site and its very resourceful. I am 29 .. been married for 9 years almost 10, and have been with my wife for since she and I were 15 and 16. We have 2 wonderful children aged 9 and 3 (1 daughter and 1 son).
Over the past while we have grown apart (or so it seems).And have taken eachother for granted. We get little to no outside hlp from our familes to give us breaks from our children (they take the older one but not the younger one and when they do take the younger one .. its never for any signifigant length of time). My wife works 3 days a week as a dental assistant for a pediatric office .. and I work all week as a commercial building maintenance manager and on call 24/7. We both have weekends off(unless i get called in) but are usually so consumed. Our work scheduals are lined up tho so thats good i guesss ... kids get dropped off at daycare in the morning 3 days a week before my daughter has to go to school. on sunday nights my wife usually cooks dinner that will last us through the days shes at work(lunch and dinner). We leave the house at like 7am then get home at 6pm and kids go to bed at 8/9pm. One of us is usually child minding while the other is preparing dinner/lunches etc ... and after all thats done .. she wants to relax. And of course .. i see it as an oppertunity to possibly indulge in our relationship but shes tired and says its just another chore.
We are both not happy in our relationship. My wife says shes falling out of love with me and doesnt feel affectionate towards me anymore. We are both addicted to online games .. (doesnt hlp that we cant go out and be a couple casue we are stuck at home in the evenings after kids go to bed, so online games have become our social life).
After reading this site .. i have come to learn that neither of us are meeting eachothers emotional needs .. and CONSTANTLY stabbing eachother with love busters ... prolly more so me using the love busters than her but both of us none the less ... i have started taking steps to avoid them ... but when we have a heated conversation .. she pulls them out full force and says after all the years of crap and lack of caring i have shown (which i dont htink is totally true due to our time scheduals but its how she feels and i dont own her feelings) she just does not give a ****** what i do anymore .. nor does she care how i feel anymore. I have quit my gaming somewhat to show her i really do care recently in an attempt to reconciliate our relationship cause it means more to me than anyhting .. but to her the kids mean more than our relationship.. but it seems my efforts are failing .. she responds to my affections with negativity and name calling and that im doing it to just GET SOME and that i deserve how shes treating me, but it could possibly be too soon for any of my efforts take affect yet anyhow. My wife is very strong headed and passionate when shes got her mind set on something and that works for both sides of her mood... and im the passive one who is a day to day guy, unless a conversation has left me defensive or her defensive then i tend ot lash out a bit when she backs me in a corner and we start throwing love busters at eachother again. I have never hit my wife i admit i have prolly emotionally abused her and she has emotionally abused me ... i love my children .. i love my wife .. im just confused and lost atm ... wondering how to get her feeling like my intentions are genuine casue she feels they are not. Shes even told me to go bang other chicks, but i dont want to .. we are christians and have stopped going to church because all they wanted from us was work and money... and when we did work for them (i was on tech and my wife did tots) we were usually on demand by hte church at differenttimes .. so we never got to enjoy service togheter. Seems everywhere we turn ... somthing is pulling us apart ... and now that she is withdrawn .. and we have had a few outbursts ... and are feeling emotionaly withdrawn .. im finding life to be getting dulll rahter quickly .. and am falling into depression due to failing efforts that i am trying to be genuine about. She says MAYBE she can forgive me for my recent lack fo caring but she dont know how long it will be if ever ... but that my true colours where shown last week when i kinda disregarded her feelings and left her with the kids for an hour while i went ot my friends place to bring him some files from my PC. I know i was wrong now .. and this sort of hting has been going on for quite some time now .. and its taking a toll on our relationship .. to the point where i am beginning to resent our children .. and struggle for my wifes attention. She disregards my feelings now so everytime i bring up how i feel she shrugs it off as so what you didnt care how I felt. (which i did i was just an idiot and couldnt see past the end of my nose) Any suggestions/advice would be much appreciatve as i am at a loss of cause here .. and willing to do whatever it takes to win her afffection back. Sorry im talking in circles .. and im not good at expressing what i feel ... or putting things together very well to explain my point of view .. and DEF not in a heated conversation. I need to quit smoking pot too (she wont tho but her head is better than mine) .. i think that will hlp. But i am at a loss here no how to get things back on track. I miss my wife even tho shes in my presence ... it doesnt feel like shes there.
Do you think it is possible there could be another man in the picture?
In my experience, when a husband tries to change to make the marriage better for his wife, and she responds as negatively as yours has, odds are good that her heart is elsewhere.
Do you think this might be the case? Would you be willing to do a little investigating to find out?
If your wife is having an emotional affair (EA) or even a physical affair (PA) with another man, that doesn't mean your marriage is over. There are things you can do to end the affair and win back your wife. This site has information on how to do just that - but you need to know if she is having an affair, because the things you you must do are different than if she is not.
I recommend you read all the material here (sounds like you have already read a lot of it), including the stuff on infidelity, and start investigating whether or not there might be another man in the picture. Keep posting here, you'll get a lot of support from the folks here.
BTW, I think giving up the online gaming was a good move on your part. That stuff is very time-consuming, and husbands need to spend that kind of time on their wives, not on a game. I think giving up the pot would also be a good move.
Me: 41, INFP Her: 46, ESFJ Married 6/95 B-G Twins 4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part. So happy together!
Thanx for the reply ... i dont think shes cheating .. maybe having an emotional affair .. but her expresing her feelings and talking about her feelings towards someone else doesnt realy bother me .. only if it was to become physical .. but she doesnt have time to be physical with anyone .. unless shes falling for one of her dentists at work. (which again i doubt casue she claims men are scum and she would turn lesbian if she could but shes not interested in women either) .... she still games when the chores are done .. and our marriage has been on the rocks for a while now ... just the past stuff has really triggerd her to become distant .. and its prolly due to my neglegance. She doesnt wana stop smoking pot (its her get away after kids are in bed) ... and MSN is her outlet for expressing herslf to her online friends so she can bash me or whatever ... she would rather talk to them than me now .. but moslty casue when we both gamed ... we would be off in our own worlds ... yeah they consume alot of time .. and casue extra drama than what is necessary.
She has stated that maybe time will fix it but she thinks i need to grow up more ...and become her partner ... she says she doesnt wana feel this way ... but she cant hlp how she feels right now .. until i start SHOWING her MORE that i am on the same page with her. We can get along as long as i am not apprearing NEEDY in anyway ... as soon as i even mention that id like sex .. or intamacy with her ... she gets defensive .. and goes on about how all i care about is sex ... now i do care about sex mroe than she does .. and maybe i do put too much emphasis on it .. and maybe that makes me an [censored] .. i dunno .. she expresses her needs in a beat around the bush sorta way ... and i have printed out hte love busters for us to fill out now .. and am going to present them to her later today and see how that goes. I hate things that take too long .. i know it cant be fixed right away .. but im beating my self up trying to wrap my head aroudn the entire thing .. and its casueing me to not be productive at work .. in fact im at work right now .. jsut worrying about my marriage. and pressing F5 over and over for this thread hoping for some definate answer .. (althought im fooling myself into thinking there will be one) and reading other threads of similar topic. And to top it off .. its only been recently that i have been receptive to it ... my wife says .. she will pretend to be happy for me if thats what i want ... but thats not what i want .. i want genuine response .. and not a programmed one.
Do you know what her top eomtional needs are? There's a questionnaire that you can download on this site (there are a few MOF). Both of you should fill it out. Tell her you are at a loss and that you want to restore your marriage. You know that she has withdrawn. You are willing to try anything. Fill it out honestly.
You can get the LB (love buster) questionaire also and fill it out, but I think the EN one should come first.
When she does it, read it, ask questions so that you completely understand not only WHAT her ENs are, but HOW to meet them. The way she needs them met so they hit the mark and fill up her love bank.
Yo're the one who is here, so you've got to start the ball rolling.
Work on this for a few weeks, see if she is more receptive to you and your needs, BUT...don't expect your ENs to be met right away. Don't push. Don't try to get something for doing something. We women feel that. We like to have things done for us just cause you want to, not to get something in return.
But the beauty in all this, is that when she starts feeling her love bank being filled with your deposits (meeting her needs as SHE NEEDS THEM MET) she will start to feel some love in return.
Now CC has a point up above, but you just may not be htting the mark. I have experienced that my H tries to meet my needs the way HE would like that need to be met. So he misses the mark. He may be trying real hard, but not getting anywhere. Like a person is dying of thirst and you keep trying your darndest to feed them hamburgers....no deposits are made.
Read this site, understand the concepts and fill out the questionnaires. The LB one is to figure out the behaviors that cause withdrawals from your love bank (selfish demands, angry outbursts, independent behavior, annoying habits, etc). Try to eliminate those. Both of you.
In a few weeks, if this has been done like it's supposed to be, you should see SOMETHING, if not there may be other problems worth looking into.
i dont think shes cheating .. maybe having an emotional affair
I hope this is not the case. An emotional affair is cheating. You can read the devastation on Gen Quest II that an EA can cause. EA/PA are types of infidelities. Both devastating and both harmful to a M. Better look into this.
ah ... well .. i know she chats to other guys that are across the world .. with her MSN .. but i see it as no big deal .. maybe i should? She meets ppl in online games .. then adds them to her MSN. But i do too .. and i have had many converstaions myself with ppl in those online games when i was on the rocks with my wife in the past and got good advice .. most of hte good advice was from other women tho .. is that considered an emotional affair??
Shes got a friend that keeps pushin her to leave me whenever they hang out ... now shes doesnt appreciate her lack of support for our marriage .. and doesnt hang with her that much ... but they still chat. My wife told me this in confidence tho ... but i feel like ripping her friends head off for it.
Chatting with people online isn't a very good thing for married people, especially when their marriage is shaky. I've been here about 2.5 years and I've seen several people whose spouse started an affair online.
Hopefully that is not what you are dealing with. I think Michele may be right that you may not be doing the right things to meet your wife's Emotional Needs. However, even if you were, it is also vital that you not Love Bust - because Love Busters will undo all the gains you may have made by meeting ENs. So, work on eliminating your Love Busters. At the same time, try to meet her particular ENs as best as you can.
With all that said, here is why I am troubled by your description. It sounds like you have already tried to start changing things, and it sounds like you have talked with her about wanting to change things. I think that most of the time, if a wife is not having an affair, she would be very happy to hear that from her husband - and would show some encouragement.
Your wife's reaction seems to be the opposite.
Anyway, stop Love Busting, start trying to meet her ENs, and keep your eyes open to see if everything she does is aboveboard. Forget about yourself and your needs right now, because it takes work to try to woo her back - just be patient.
You should see some encouraging signs from her fairly quickly once you start doing these things. If you don't, that would be a pretty clear sign that her interest is elsewhere.
Oh, and don't discount the negative impact of Emotional Affairs. Emotional Affairs can be just as damaging to the marriage as Physical Affairs, especially if the wife is the one having the EA.
Good luck. And keep posting.
Me: 41, INFP Her: 46, ESFJ Married 6/95 B-G Twins 4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part. So happy together!
she used to confide in other guys ... and apparently has stopped that .. casue i apparently act jealous that she has guy friends htat she likes to talk to ... so she confides with other women now apparently ... how can i make sure shes not having some kind of affair? what steps can i take to find out?
I just had a heated MSN chat with her ... im an [censored] still .. and im having a hard time WANTING to be nice and trying yto make ammends with her for what i did and we ended up hvaing chat rage ... its almost time for me to go home to her ... but what is there to go home too ??? more fighting?? hardly seems worth it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />:(:(:(:( I just feel like dieing atm .. I know i ****** up .. but she cant forgive me ... and its making me even more depressed.
15 hours of undivided attention per week. And not by computer.
OK, you have the kids - you can go to the park with the kids, you can take a walk, you can go out for ice cream. There are things you can do.
Turn off the computers for a week, or set timers for 1 hour a day. Find something to do together like a jigsaw puzzle, or cribbage, or plan to paint the bathroom, or make Christmas presents, plan a dinner party. Cook together, and shop together - it's fun - we used to do cooking weekends and did about 20 meals in one day. Then you will have some free days.
You need to lose the computers and have some real life fun.
Well ... you guys are right ... and i have already begun it ... i guess both of us being glued to the computer over hte past few years during time when we should have been doing things as husband and wife after kids were in bed has casued us to drift apart a bit. And I have GOOD news ... i got home yesterday ... and for the first time in a LONG time (prolly months) we actually had a non blaming ... civil .. inteligent conversation about this whole ordeal .. now its not fixed by far .. but it feels good to talk to her in a non hostile enviroment ... we hugged after i talked about the love busters and how we felt using "I" alot .. instead of "YOU!" and we both came to an agreement to spend more time focusing on eachother instead of hte computers (herself included) I had to stress that it didnt necessarily mean just sex .. casue i know thats not one of her main EN's but to just be togther for conversation .. and affection .. and begin with that and see what it leads to from there .. and once we have reestablished the open lines of communication again .. and feel reconnected then we can move forward. I appreciate this site .. and the info that is provided and all your non biased support. Its really great.. and even tho we are very young .. and been together since such a young age ... that we can still grow and learn in our marriage and make it work. The concepts and ideas here have really tuned me up to take notice of what i am NOT doing .. that i should have done LONG ago.
Well .. things are going ok ... rest assured she is not having any affair of any kind .. we hardly go on our PCs now .. and have had a few evening parties to increase our social life ... im helping aorund hte house more where i can and when i remember. shes alot more affectionate to me now than she has been in months .. we have even had some great sex innitiated by her while i was reading up on some hunting regulations after my shower lol.
Recently we had a bit of conflict .. and not realizing it til after i was a bit unsupporitve of the situation. Our babysitter is from england .. and her and her hubby and 3 kids have been here for years ... SHE committed an EA and PA with a guy ... and her hubby got mad and comitted one too when he went back to england so now he got a job again in england now and his immigration visitors visa is almost expired and they are getting a divorce over their infidelity ... but SHE doesnt wana go back to england. her kids are in school with mine and now she may be forced to go back when he leaves ... this lady is my wifes best friend and its hurting my wife ... now i mentioned i was a bit insensative about it ... casue i said ..well .. "what can we do? i guess its goodbye then" ... she got all mad ... i didnt realize what i said .. or that it was insensative until after. SO i looked up some immigration laws for htem and sent some links to try and hlp them out.
THings were going good unitl this happeend .. less LB .. more affection .. and more ENs being met on both our parts but it came to a crashing halt when she found out her bnest friend is prolly gonna have to move back to england .. not to mentoin shes our child care during the day when we are at work so we will loose out on that and have to put our kids in a regular public daycare .. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
SO im a jerk again ... casue of my insensativity ... i didnt say anything other than sorry i didnt realize i was being insensative .. then i began the immigration laws research .. and went to a friends house for the evening after hlping get kids to bed.
A good apology will always include your plan of action to reassure her that what you did to cause the hurt will not happen again. It doesn't mean you won't necessarily falter from your plan but it shows that you have their best interests at heart and are trying to be more sensitive to their feelings.
That should help you feel less insensitive ... and should help train you not to be insensitive.
Put yourself in her shoes, try to understand how she's feeling in the moment instead of how you feel in the moment. It's not easy but do-able.
I love walkingthefield's signature line ... it says:
*** Warning *** Make sure brain is engaged before shifting mouth out of Neutral.
Well ... things are going great now. I did some love and respect stuff from my church ... that went ok. Much time has passed and we have had many conversations and my wife has forgiven me of me spying on her personal emails and such. We have a new situation that is putting a damper on our relationship but it came after we prayed for it (be careful what you pray for).
My 21 YO brother now lives with us ... he has lived the party life since he got booted out of my mothers place. We had been praying and praying for god to direct us to give someone help and a month or so after praying i get a call from my brother. So we moved him in becasue he was gonna end up on the streets til he got on his feet. So my wife and I have been collectivly kickin his [censored] to get a job .. and get his life in order again. BUT the frusterating part is, he seems to be taking advantage of us ... if we dont tell him what to do .. he does nothing. He has no ambition .. no drive ... nothing. SO ... this puts my wife and I in conflict because of his lack of ambition. Its not necessarily ME shes mad at .. and not necessarily her im mad at ... but our frusteration lvls wear off on eachother to the point we love bust eachother out of pure frusteration.
HOWEVER .. just recently we seen a movie called "FIREPROOF" .. its a christian film about a non christian guy that is having a hard time with his home life and how he goes about changing it. In the story .. the main character is a fire fighter.... and hes a hero to everyone but his wife. Basicly .. everything that they go through in the movie was a reflection of my marriage.
Now ... i had asked my wife to look at the books from here .. his needs her neeeds etc ... i bought all those ... they are great tools but she wants nothing to do with them because they are MY suggestions for her to read them. Since this movie tho she has opened her eyes a bit to the problems in our relationship... and at the end of the movie said to me "I wana buy that book!" (the one in fireproof) ... SO ... i bought it for her the other day and we are both currently going through it. Its not easy tho ... its a 40 day dare called THE LOVE DARE. And each day has a dare for you to do. For instance:
Day 1 is Patience.... and you are dared to bite your lip even if tempted to say something negative to your spouse.
Day 2 is kindness and a dare to do something for your spouse unexpeceted without expectation of reciprocation.
Day 3 your dare reminds you that where you put your time and energy and money is also where your heart is.
The book reminds you that no matter how tough it is ... if you give up you wont get the benifits of the outcome. Each day opens up a door for another way to love our spouse.
In hte movie FIREPROOF .... the guy recieves that book from his dad ... his dad asks him to wait 40 days before he divorces if he has any drive left to save his marriage. So he follows through with hte book ... but through the entire movie his wife doesnt respond how he expects and he realizes 1/2 way that his heart really wasnt into it like he had thought and that he truely wasny loving his wife the way god intended ... and it wasnt until the end of hte movie when it all comes together. (i wont say more incase you wana watch it)
I think if your having a troublesome marriage .... FireProof will open your eyes a bit becasue it starts off in a marriage thats been going on for 7 years and how they take eachother for granted and how to win back the heart of your signifigant other the way god wants us too .... truely an eye opener .. I cried and so did my wife and even tho we been together for 16 years now (im 31 and shes almost 30) we really did not know true unconditional love until after seeing this film and now taking part in the book that film is about ...
But i need some prayer ... i need prayer for patience with my brother and for him to get some ambition to get his own place so i can continue to build the relationship i NEED with my wife .. as it is he is like a 3rd wheel atm ... but doesnt got a pot to piss in if i kick him out right now. Its been 4 months now since he moved in .... he is wearing down our brotherly relationship and keeps my wife in a negative mood and i have told him this but he doesnt seem to care ... just goes through the motions to get by ... and nothing more.
Thanks for listening. I may start a seperate topic on fireproof just to put more focus on it .. i just wanted to mention it here and how it affected my life in regards to my situation.
Day 3 your dare reminds you that where you put your time and energy and money is also where your heart is.
You two are investing in your brother with good intent, but taking away the consequences he has given him. You've given him the hand up, shown him that he's never alone. I think now it's time for you to Let Go and Let God. Your brother will be okay. He knows what to do, and he's in good hands. You can supoort him by believing in him that he has what it takes to improve his life.
just goes through the motions to get by ... and nothing more.
You have your answer, when you let him go, he will go through the motions to get by in another place.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13 Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
Yup i know ... we are working on that ... he just got a 2nd job today (after much [censored] kicking) ... and that puts him at 16hr days now... so he will soo see how tough it is. He knows hes on his last legs in our home ... and we do know the answer... but becasue of my love for my bro i just cant let him go yet. Soon tho. VERY soon ... my patience is with HIM is coming to an end. He knows it ... we no longer cook his meals ... or kick his [censored] .. and we will be giving him a time limit to get his own place after I discuss it with my wife.
I need my house back ... in order to spend the quality time with my wife that i need to rebuild our marrige again... i cant plan romantic stuff with him sharing our living room .... our kitchen ... our dinning room ... meals .. etc .. its just not gonna work and We see that now ... especially reading that love dare book ... we DEF need to invest more time in US rather than babysitting him and letting the frusterations boil over.
Well .. im back ... my heart is broken. My brother is moved out after my wife caught him going through our dressers after coming home early one day.
HOwever .... we as a couple are still not doing very well .. it comes and goes in radical spurts .. but recently i got the "i love you but im not in love with you" anymore speach. My heart is bleeding right now .. we both have aversions ... especially her .. she def has a sexual aversion and i have a lack of confidence to even perform properly when we are trying to perform SF for eachother. We start marriage councelling on March 2nd ... as we both have agreed that we cant do it on our own. She seems to want to work on it .. but doesnt seem to believe that anyhting is going to change. I have wrote poems .. and given her flowers ... given her space ... etc ... and that dreadful line still occurs. I do hope councelling will help us get back in love again. I love her with all my heart i want us to be fixed! I cant just throw away all we have worked for... yet thats how it feels like its going to go.
"sigh" i wish march 2nd would hurry up ... but on the good side of things .. we finally have our first ever 2 day get away without kids coming up in may booked so maybe that will give us some time to reconnect. i sure hope so .. i feel so lost and helpless.
It's understandable that in your whole story (since 2007) that as you and your wife begin new habits (getting away from the computers at home) and like the new outcome over time, then you'll feel better about the marriage.
When stressful situations come along, you won't feel the same even if you're doing the same...we don't form "habits for stress"...so when you guys encountered the possible loss of your daycare provider (and friend), then the LBs increased and meeting ENs decreased, temporarily. Accepting this as part, staying aware and doing MORE reassurance, understanding, mirroring helps you through.
Same with when your brother stressed your marriage.
Now you're back to just you two and there's damage resulting from the stress and conflicting feelings about your brother, your past choices and present ones. Understandable. Reasonable.
Same for your wife. However, she's back to saying that speech, which is a wayward state of mind...I can guarantee you that...from my own experience. Also, does she still believe that her previous mistreatment of you was deserved, what you earned through your neglect? I ask because if she still has this belief, and you do, also, then the flip side of it says that she deserved your neglect. This is an important belief to explore in MC.
so make sure your counselor knows MB...the four rules of marriage, because The Policy of Radical Honesty is key here...for you guys to amend, repair and grow together.
Kudos on the planned May getaway...make weekly time alone your top priority for the marriage...with one weekend away every three months at most...because this being your first ever says you guys will toss with the wind instead of direct your actions...
you need this for a strong family, loving parents...your marriage is the most important part of parenting. Trading weekends with other parents instead of payments enables more marriages to experience this...
Understandable you feel lost and helpless. You really aren't. Please know that. You are acting to the plan to grow your marriage...counseling, posting...make sure you stick with it...like your wife...in good times and in bad.
And give back...post to others...it's when you learn the most. I promise. You can do this. She may not believe anything will help your marriage...there are times when one partner loses hope...and the other keeps hope for them both. Just as each partner acting from love even when they don't feel it is the key to a happy marriage...because loving feelings will follow.
Know you both can fall in love again and again...listen more, share more, and you will.