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I know this will fly in the face of all MBer's pricipals for recovery and I am prepared for the 2x4's but here goes...

My WW has recommitted to our marriage verbally, physically and emotionally as far as I can tell. She has been saying and doing all the right things.

She tells me she does not want the OM anymore in "that" way. She has told me all kinds of things about him that bug her. She told me about things he did that made her dislike him. She realized the reason she wanted him was because he was always making her jealous flaunting other women who were attracted to him. She says she will not be intimate with him ever again and that I am the only person she ever wants to be with for the rest of our lives.

She apologized for her A. She is telling me about her new dreams for us and our 2nd chance and how she wants us to live together to our full potential. She tells me how much she wants me and our marriage and our family. We have amazing SF lately, like it used to be vs only 6 times in 6 months during the A. Last night she looked at me with the loving eyes I used to see from her.

I have snooped and found no evidence to the contrary. She shows me her text messages. I don't have her email password yet but thats my next request.

So the kicker is she is still talking to and meeting him for a lunch occasionally. She is honest about it as far as I can tell and hasn't had any time that is unaccounted for. We are watching Dr. Harleys DVD with his 10 rules for a great marriage and are embracing them with all the gusto that a recovering marriage should have.

I know everyone here will be offended by this and will be hitting me over the head as naive and stupid but I almost think this is better because she has come out of the fog, realized her addiction and the reasons for it and instead of overwhelming feelings for him she is centered and knows what she wants: her 17 year marriage and family.

I know the posts I will get about being naive and stupid but can anyone post about the OP becoming a friend?


God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
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I'm sorry but it's impossible.

The MB path to recovery is very narrow.

Deviations will only lead to further misery,

for BOTH of you.


Question: Do YOU really want her to keep this friendship??

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I know everyone here will be offended by this and will be hitting me over the head as naive and stupid but I almost think this is better because she has come out of the fog, realized her addiction and the reasons for it and instead of overwhelming feelings for him she is centered and knows what she wants: her 17 year marriage and family.

~emphasis mine

Nope, she has NOT come out of the fog or "realized" her addiction...As long as she continues contact with OM the affair CONTINUES and you are NOT in recovery...Dr. Harley says that there will FOREVER remain a low burning flame for the OP and it can be easily reignited at anytime...SHE IS PLAYING WITH FIRE...The outcome is that YOU will get burned over and over again...She MUST accept her vunerability to her addiction and act accordingly (NC) if your marriage is to recover...NO CONTACT IS THE CORNERSTONE TO RECOVERY...Without NC, there is NO recovery...

Quote
I know the posts I will get about being naive and stupid but can anyone post about the OP becoming a friend?

Friends can become lovers, but lovers can never become friends...

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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According to the Harleys, and to basic common sense, she must end all contact with the other man forever.

Anything less is an affair waiting to happen.

I would also be suspicious that you aren't being duped, no matter how good your intel is.

All the best,
Gimble


-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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I know the posts I will get about being naive and stupid but can anyone post about the OP becoming a friend?

Yes, we can. We have several affairs that turned into LONG TERM affairs lasting 4, 5, and 10 years because the affairees remained "friends." Recovery is impossible until all contact ends because WITHDRAWAL never happens, bigpicture. That is about like expecting an alcholic to sober up without stopping drinking. Can't happen. Ain't gonna happen.

This affair is not over until all contact ends.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I know this will fly in the face of all MBer's pricipals for recovery and I am prepared for the 2x4's but here goes...

No 2x4 from me, just pity because I know what your future holds. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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You would have to be totally out of your mind to accept this. She humiliated, betrayed and totally disrespect you with this man and now she say she still stays in contact with him and has lunches with him just as friends. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would be as accepting?

Surely she must know how painful and humiliating it is to you to know that she continues to be in contact with this man. The fact that she continues this behavior says a great deal.
You would have to be a masochist to accept this. Open your eyes. This man continuously screwed your wife behind your back and you are fine with her seeing him as friends. You are a total fool to accept this and your wife is making you look like an idiot. I am sorry but down deep you know this is true and she would never accept this if the roles were reversed. Enough is enough. She is showing you total disrespect by this behavior. If you caught them in your bed would you still feel the same way? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Wake up!

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Requirements for Recovery from an Affair

Dr. Bill Harley:
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

continued at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...mber=3370182&an=0&page=0


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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bigpicture, I would also suggest that since he is only her "friend" now that all communications take place AT YOUR HOME with you, your W, and your kids present. YOU CAN *ALL* BE "FRIENDS!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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<gulp>

bigpicture...you yourself are a little foggy if this sitch might be even a little bit ok with you.

There is just no way that you can get into true recovery with your WW still being in contact with OM. Are YOU ok with them being "friends"????

You said you are doing the MB stuff together...have you POJA'ed this arrangement?

In your heart, I believe you know this is not ok...not even a little bit ok.

Please read some more about NC...Mrs. W gave you some really great info, and coming from a FWW, I hope you take it to heart.

When your WW says that she doesn't even WANT to be friends, or have anything to do with OM, THEN you might get into recovery.

I thank God everyday that my FWH tells me this quite often. I hope your WW will pulls her head out soon and realizes the damage she has done and continues to do by staying in C with OM.

I'm so sorry for you....


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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bigpicture, I would also suggest that since he is only her "friend" now that all communications take place AT YOUR HOME with you, your W, and your kids present. YOU CAN *ALL* BE "FRIENDS!"

LOL at Mel!

This is actually a great idea...I bet your WW would not be so excited to continue her "friendship" with OM if this was the stipulation!


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

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Bigpicture-

Just one question: Is her friendship with the OM more important than recovering her M? IMHO this is a deal-breaker.


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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WOW - Agreement on MB - It must be a full moon.

Recovery is IMPOSSIBLE with continued contact.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Oh and just so you know, most people here will tell you as I will that continued contact such as you describe means the affair is still active and ongoing. She's hiding it better is all.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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BP,

Logic check. I am not going to try and convince you are wrong. It makes no difference to me. You are about to find out some painful things. Please explain the logic of what you just posted.

Quote
She has told me all kinds of things about him that bug her. She told me about things he did that made her dislike him.

Quote
So the kicker is she is still talking to and meeting him for a lunch occasionally.

Quote
that I am the only person she ever wants to be with for the rest of our lives.

Does this make sense to you? It does not to me. One of these statements represents a huge lie. Which one do you suspect is the lie. Clearly she does not want to be ONLY with you for the rest of your lives. She is eating meals with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I will end this by saying your marriage is still in big trouble and the reason for this is embodied in the following statement in your post.
Quote
She realized the reason she wanted him was because he was always making her jealous flaunting other women who were attracted to him. She says she will not be intimate with him ever again

So any man that fluants other women in her fact can make her jealous of them and FORCE her to have an affair. I have heard lame reasons for an affair but this takes the cake. But, I will tell you this you have not even begun recovery and good sex is NOT recovery.

God Bless YOU Bigpicture,

JL

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DO NOT AGREE TO THIS COSY ARRANGEMENT

(Cosy for her that is......)


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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In addition,

I see you have 13 and 16 year old daughters.

They are certainly old enough to know the truth about their lives...including the inappropriate behavior of their mother and the ABUSE their mother is putting their father through.

Your daugthers need to see appropriate behaviors modelled by their parents which includes not only their mother repenting and turning away from her sinful adulterous behavior but ALSO a father/man that will not tolerate and endure continued abuse by his spouse. They NEED to see their father demand nothing less than a marriage of extraordinary care. They NEED to see you put up a strong boundary that you refuse, in due time (recovery DOES take time) to remain in a loveless marriage. Continued contact with OM is a NOT a demonstration of love nor of such extraordinary care and thus unacceptable.

Would you ADVISE your daughters to remain married and accept such circumstances????

Consider the lessons you are teaching them by accepting crumbs from your wife and not standing up for yourself and what is RIGHT. Plan and simple, your wife is teaching them entitled behavior and your enabling it teaches them that men are weak and women have the right to abuse them if they so choose.

Further...girls tend to seek out and marry men just like their daddy's. What kind of self-respecting man do you want your daughters to marry???

If you haven't already, your daugthers should be told about your wife's behavior in an age appropriate manner. There are threads on MB discussing the same and/or we could discuss doing so herein.

What say you???

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- I am not berating or picking on you. I completely understand what you've been through and firmly believe your willingness to consider this arrangement is a direct result of the trauma your wife has put you through. You are not thinking clearly and trying to save your marriage and likely your family through whatever negotiated terms you can. It is noble but falling on the sword will not save you and, in the end, you'll lose despite this valliant attempt at acquiescing. You just CAN'T sell your soul to the devil. We here at MB, in unity, are pulling for you to pull up your britches and right this ship. You can't negotiate with a terrorist. The taking will never end and the costs are too high. No Contact is the ONLY way.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I actually tried this same junk. My PA had ended with OM and we were in the middle of a music project. I had not admitted anything to my DH and so we both tried to just be "friends" to the extent that I had the guy over to our HOME and tried to make him and DH be FRIENDS as well. (God, that is so hard to type...I want to hurl). It is one of the things that now hurts my BH the absolute worst..."how could you bring that pos into our home?" There is no grey area here. Absolutely none. Fast forward 4 months and OM had been gone for 3 months and all of a sudden he is emailing me telling me how much he loves me, etc- even though he knows my H knows what happened between us. Sound like anything anybody would receive from "just a friend?"

No...no way...no how!!!!!!!!!!!!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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Quote
I know the posts I will get about being naive and stupid but can anyone post about the OP becoming a friend?


I'll not bother to add anything to what the other members have written because it's obvious that you "know better than everyone else and prefer to learn the hard way."

Stupid would be another way to describe enablement of an ongoing affair, so why bother telling you what you already know?

Dumb, weak, and desperate to "hold onto" your wife by allowing her to do whatever she wants. All she has to do is TELL you what you want to hear.

No more time for this sort of nonsense.

Good luck. We'll see you when you come staggering back wondering "what the heck happened?!?! We were supposed to have been happily married?!?!"

And people worry about "trolls?" Real people are worse sometimes.

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Knock Knock,
Can I enter the building? I was supposed to be gone, but a post like this MUST be answered.

This post should be ranked right up there as the number one reason why NC, forever, and for life is a rule that cannot be violated for any reason.

BP, you are being duped by your WW and OM at the same time. How sad, that you could actually buy into this. You think their A is over, because that is what they have both told you, but, nothing could be furthur from the truth.

Trust me, they are still boinking each other and have found a wonderful way to pull the wool over your ever so naive eyes.

This is a wonderful way for your WW to sit on the fence and have BOTH of you to forfill and meet her needs. How great it is for HER!

You don't need a 2x4, you need a bazooka to WAKE UP!

Keep on in this manner, and you can come back one day to tell us all how great you new life is after divorce.

All Blessings,
Jerry

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