I understand your point, but just what do you think is the post ratio of faith based advice vs. anti-faith based advice. My guess is we're easily in the 100+ : 1 range, so its not like we're comparing apples to apples.

Furthermore, we see advice questioned here everyday, but ONLY when it is someone questioning faith based advice does the board get their collective panties in a wad.

I'm sorry, but I'll let the results speak for themselves ... how often has faith based advice been effective here at MB?. It is usually dismissed out of hand by waywards, and is most often used by betrayeds to justify DOING NOTHING!!! Neither of which do anything to actually address the very real issue of adultery.

And that's where you are wrong, MyRev. I'll give you three examples among many:

1. He gave us life, we are not an "accident" of nature.

2. He gave us salvation from the penalty of sin, not the removal of the sin-nature.

3. God the Son gave us Himself in full payment of the wrath of God on sin, dying in our place.


But like everything else you ascribe to self, you can choose to believe or choose not to believe, God isn't interested in you being a slave or robot with "no choice in the matter."

Just an interesting note....

One of the definitions of Revelation (your post name)

MyRev, then you are not listening or reading to arrive at that erroneous conclusion.



Again, you ingore the many times people have adamantly stated that they don't want any "religious talk" on their thread.

Another interesting note... (my opinion only, of course)

On the way to work this morning, I was thinking to myself...I'll bet the way people conduct themselves on the MB forum is the way they conduct themselves in life.

It's interesting to observe. I'm learning.

I think there is a big difference between critiquing advice that someone has given and attacking a person's deity.


This site supports the ideas of Dr. Harley, which happen to also be in line w/ the teachings of Christianity.

There have been plenty of success stories.

FYI

This is an excerpt of an interview with Dr. and Joyce Harley. It talks about his use or lack of use of Scripture in his work.

---------------------------------------------------------------

FamilyChristian.com: One interesting facet of your book is that you refrain from using specific Scriptures to back up your principles. As a result, you're reaching both Christian and non-Christian couples. Was that your intent?

Bill: The reason I did it was not for the secular reader. I did it for the Christian reader who is having a bad marriage and is totally turned off by everything Christian. This is what you essentially get in a bad marriage, especially with somebody having an affair. The last thing they want to hear is some Scripture on adultery. The approach I was taking was what I would use with a pastor or a missionary or an evangelist that was having problems with a marriage. They already know that they are clearly out of God's will if they are having an affair, but they also need to understand that they're out of God's will if they're not meeting their spouse's emotional needs.

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FamilyChristian.com: What is your response to those who criticize the lack of Scripture?

Bill: There's nothing in [His Needs, Her Needs] that is inconsistent with Scripture. That's an extremely important point. This business on physical attractiveness [is a sticking point] for [some] Christians. They say, "Hmmm. I wonder if Jesus Christ would have written that." I feel like I'm in the will of God on this one but it still jumps out at you.

Joyce: To me what's in the will of God is that your mate not be tempted by someone else. You're building an affair-proof marriage. That's in the will of God to have an affair-proof marriage. Another thing I wanted to bring up regarding your not having Scripture [in the book] is that your concepts have touched people outside of the church and outside of Christendom.

Bill: [It's] brought them in. I had a couple in Oregon [contact me.] She was a pagan believer and he was a Buddhist and they both prayed to their gods that they would be led to someone who would save their marriage. They both independently found our website and came to me and they said, "Isn't it remarkable that our gods would have sent us to a Christian?" (Laughs).

---------------------------------------------------------------

Here’s the whole interview. Probably a good read before anyone posts what they believe is the truth about Dr. Harley’s position and use of his Christian beliefs with regards to his work.

http://www.familychristian.com/books/harley.asp


I guess the answer is everyday MB principles and tools are used properly.


Just thought everyone would like to know.

S&C

See FH ... this is where you lose all credibility. Simply because I don't "believe" as you believe, then I'm WRONG!!!

Now personally, I find it silly to waste so much of the limited time we have in this life contorting to the moving target of the various organized religions and demonimations, but I recognize that certain individuals get a certain comfort from following, and I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with it for myself.

However, I am seldom granted the same tolerance to "not" believe, as you yourself have evidenced by your "WRONG" statement. Now we can chase our tails around and around debating the undebatable, since we're talking about "personal" faith or the lack thereof, but I'm not here to debate whether we're dealing with an omnipotent entity or a myth. I come here to learn about and deal with infidelity, and quite frankly within this context, the whole subject is meaningless if you're hoping for the supernatural to cure the "real" for anyone other than ourselves.

That was interesting, and informative.

I've read Dr. Harley's books. Almost all of them, I think. I see nothing in them that conflicts with scripture from the Bible, but I also don't see them as exclusively Christian.

I do think there needs to be at least a detaunt (How do you spell that? I'm bad at French.) between the aethists and the evangelicals. I'm not asking for respect because I doubt very much there can be respect when two sets of people so truly believe that the others are misguided and dead wrong.

MyRev, I understand your viewpoint. There ARE only 3 possibilities here:

1. You are right and I am wrong.

2. I am right and you are wrong.

3. We are both wrong.

The third possibility really doesn't exist, though. The reason is that there ARE only 2 possibilities for how "we" got here: "Evolution" of life from non-life by random natural processes with NO purpose, just an accident OR; Creation by a living God who created with a purpose in mind for His creation.

Given that, only "possibilities 1 and 2 really apply. It has to do with what is TRUE, regardless of opinion or "sincere belief."



Therefore either I am wrong or you are wrong. It has nothing to do with whether or not you or I are "credible."

That is no different than it would be if you and I disagreed on what color the sky was on a clear day(say blue vs. red) or whether or not a rock was "alive" or "dead" or whether or not the sun revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun.

I understand, MyRev. To you, it (faith in God and God's help) is foolishness.

Let me restate the my position (which I also believe is THE Christian position):

"I can do all things through him (Christ) who gives me (his) strength."

The "difference" is in "his will" versus "my will." When the two are operating in concert, they are POWERFUL. But in all cases it is NOT that "God will do it for me," it is God does it THROUGH me and with me.

This is one of the passages she used to justify the divorce.

"God" told her it was ok to do such an abominable thing.

FH:

Well, I promise not 2 get back in2 that old argument about evolution by pointing out that you're wrong because you mix "origins" with "evolution."

And yes, there is that third possibility:

Your [censored] is right for you, and my [censored] is right for me.

Ain't it grand? I've just solved everyone's problems.

-ol' 2long