Let's please have a little respect for Betrayedhubby and not turn this into a political shouting match. He is going through the worst time of his life, and his thread has been turned into something which won't help him at all. There are plenty of other places on the worldwide web to discuss such. Let's support and encourage BH, please.

Murder? No.

Manslaughter? Probably.

He probably should not be a Senator, and only is because of his last name. I never cared for any of the Kennedys.

Does that have any bearing at all on the more than 4,000 soldiers who have died, and the thousands upon thousands more who have permanent physical disabilities and PTSD thanks SOLELY to the unilateral decisions of the Bush administration? No.

How the religious right could back such an administration is beyond me. It has done nothing but display the opposite of Christian values from day one...well, BEFORE day one thanks to Katherine Harris and the rest.

Al Gore's exact quote as I pointed out to you in the past(interview with Wolf Blitzer).




Was it taken out of context...yep. Did he say it??? YEP. Did he mean it...NO. But his words were clumsy enough to be questioned.

Sorry, done.

I hope BH75 sticks to his decision to D. It's easy to say as an outsider, but I really think he's making the right choice.

A ton of heartache now, to save a thousand tons of heartache later.

You mean clumsy enough to be contorted, twisted, and used in a dishonest manner during a dirty, negative political campaign.

Only idiots really believed that nonsense...the rest are just being obstinate.

Folks, I tried and failed to move the political posts to the OT forum because of some mod alerts we received. Would you mind continuing the political discussion there so the thread can be devoted to BH? Thanks for your help! Revera

Krazy,

I am no means a Bush apologist. I think that he has done a piss-poor job. In retrospect, it was probably ill-advised to go into war against Iraq given the instability that would ensue. He also did a poor job of controlling spending in other areas, did nothing to improve social security, healthcare, gas prices, and the economy. However, the current set of candidates is no improvement.

What I can't stand is the stupid rhetoric. He is not responsible for the deaths of 4,000 soldiers. Last I checked, we have an ALL-VOLUNTEER armed forces, so they signed up for this kind of duty. The people responsible for their deaths are the roadside bombers that try and take them out. Is Bill Clinton personally responsible for the deaths of 3,000+ Americans on 9/11/01 because he refused to take OBL when Sudan offered him to us? No, but he did make a stupid mistake.

When will you guys just realize that Gore NEVER beat Bush in Florida in ANY recount, no matter how many extra votes they tried to give Gore. A dimpled chad? You have got to be kidding me. All Katherine Harris and the Supreme Court did was end the Democrats holding the country hostage while they tried to manufacture enough votes for Gore to beat Bush. Gore lost. Get over it. Would you really want Gore to be president? He's a nutjob, spreading his global warming scare tactics to swindle people out of money for his BS carbon credits garbage. Global Warming is to the Democrats what 9/11 is to the republicans. The only differences is terrorrism can actually be stopped. There is a reason that the ocean used to come all the way to Missouri at one time, and that at another time glaciers came all the way to Missouri. It's called natural climate fluctuations, and I don't think the dinosaurs were burning their fossils.

Oh, and Ted Kennedy at the VERY LEAST committed manslaughter. I seriously doubt though that he wasn't killing Kopechne on purpose. Regardless, manslaughter is just a legal term. A person who commits manslaughter is still a murderer. You don't call someone a manslaughterer.

And then you got Kerry who makes up atrocities that his fellow soldiers never committed to curry political favor with the Democrats. Then he leaves his first reach wife for another woman with more money (not to mention all the affairs he's had on his current wife, but hey, you can just ship them out of the country when you are running for president).

well said J.

I am not a Dem or Repub...I am an independent that votes the facst and the issues. Krazy just can't seem to accept facts about his party that cast them in a bad light.

No, they weren't. But we are. So, here's the data: Global climate fluc2ations (with the last 400Ka being most relevant, while the ice sheets have been coming and going and tempera2res and sea level rising and falling) with increased greenhouse gases and soot and stale beer farts added 2 the mix in just the last 2ple hundred years.

Venus, here we come!

The primary defense against:

"we and our activities are a part of the environment that is 'new'"

seems 2 be:

"well, we haven't been measuring global climate long enough 2 know whether this is a blip or a trend".

Paleoclimatologists are getting better every year at improving the accuracy of our knowledge of ancient climate trends all the time.

But the skeptics might just be able 2 live full lives without having 2 deal with global warming. Let the kids and grandkids worry about it.

-ol' 2long

The earth's climate has gradually gotten cooler since 1998. Last year was the coldest year on record since the 1930's. We are we on our way to having another cold year this year. Why don't we try and examine the data a little longer while we work on conserving energy and alternative fuels before we enact strict regulations that will kill our economy.

James, according to the EPA...and I think they would know... eight of the warmest years on record (since 1850) have been since 1998.

Check this out MEDC---> LINK

You are right, but it has trended back down since 1998. 1998 was the warmest year on record. 2007 was the coolest since 1938. 2008 is a cool year as well. There is no proof that the planet is currently getting any hotter. In fact, we may have already peaked and are headed back down.

How do you explain all the ice melting?

Volcano? ----> LINK

Link to glaciers growing----> LINK

Glaciers melt and they grow. At one point in history they melted so much that the see level was 300 feet higher. At one point the glacers reached down to the central plains (that is why they are so flat). Ice melts and it freezes as the climate fluctuates. There are some glaciers that are growing, although not as many as are melting. However, some glaciers have started slowly growing again over the past two years. It's all cyclical.

Many theorize that solar storms cause fluctuations in the Earth's temperature. Others surmise that the earth's temperature slowly climbs until a major volcanic eruption sends enough debris in the air to cool it down again. Some theorize that ocean currents kick on and off to warm and cool the earth like a giant thermostat. We just don't know. It is ridiculous to frantically enact radical policies that may totally tank the global economy when many of those pushing the "science" stand to profit from those policies. Don't you think many politicians pushing "global climate change" are just trying to drum up votes from liberals and scare the rest of America into voting for them?

Did you honestly think the climate was never going to change? Ever hear of something called "ice ages"?

Compare daily sea ice---> LINK

This is interesting too.



LINK

Insufficient.


Miniscule, compared 2 how much most are receding.

Trends over time-scales of a few years, or even a few decades, are probably not sufficient 2 put a lot of stock in. For example, sunspot cycles are 22 years long, and have a noticeable climatic effect.

I found the concept of "global dimming" as a buffer (for now) 2 tempera2re increases due 2 greenhouse gases interesting. As an amateur astronomer, I have noticed a marked decrease in the percentage of truly transparent skies over the past 30 years or so.

Once again, we're doing things that critters on this planet have never done before, and the effects of these activities must be added 2 the na2ral short and long term climate changes.

Maybe we're okay. Maybe we're not. Heck of a gamble, though.

Ever been 2 the "most Earth-like planet" in the solar system? Antartica is far more habitable, and you don't see time-shares in Antartica.

-ol' 2long