How do I add a signature to my posts? Like me-BS etc.

Go unde the "My Stuff" tab and select My Profile. You can type in your signature info there.

Just FYI, after over 4 years on various affair OC/OW boards, I have seen only 1 in hundreds of OW who did NOT use OC as a pawn in the situation in one way or another, not just sex.

Particularly when they realize they are not going to come out with the father at the end of the day as her H. The gloves come off and the games begin. Generally, these games and the using of OC as a pawn for power and control, do not have OC's interests at heart. Just OW getting her vengence.

It is a fact.

Even with court ordered visitation, even with all the documentation in the world, they still create drama and try to mess up the marriage.

Watch for it. Plan for it and be a united force with your H, should you choose contact. It will come. You can overcome her drama and efforts to drive a wedge between you and your H if you work together and have complete honesty and agreement on how you are handling OW.

It can be done and has been by many BW's. But it is hard. Most BW's who are willing to go through this genuinely love OC and feel that the pain of dealing with OW is worth the love of OC. They are truly wonderful women who DO have OC's best interests in their hearts. God bless them.

Thanks! Got it.

As a fow I liked to chime in on this is you don't mind. I have not read your whole story but a few posts here and another thread. Although I do believe in the MB principles as a mother of an oc I do not agree and everyone knows here how I feel about this with NC for oc. With that said I also know there are circumstances where it has to be that way. My oc has NC with her bio father and she is 4 and it's just the way it is.

By the dates I see it's still fairly new with you and I don't blame you for having the fears you have. I hear alot say here that the Bw should not be the one to make the compromises and by having contact she is.......well maybe but not all of them. If the ow wants the father to have contact and he is staying with his wife and kids she DOES have to accept that YOU as his wife and your children will be in that Oc's life.....end of story.

If you go to court the judge is NOT going to say Oh poor ow you don't have to face this and your end of it and not have let your child be with his fathers family unless of course your on probation for sex acts or something simular.

If you can't handle the pick ups and drops off I agree with the others hire someone to do that.

I also strongly agree to have a DNA test and have everything go through the courts. Even if you agree on it all through an attorney then have it filed through the courts. It truely is for your protection and even this child's protection. A DNA test will not only protect you and yours but the child as well too. With a Dna test this woman can never come back and say well MM you really are not the father even though you've acted like it for 10 years and gave me $ nor can he get stuck with later court order paying back child support for years when he's been paying child support.

I'm not hear to judge if you have c or NC. I have my opinions on it and have my reasons for them.......

BTW......I knew I was only with my xmm and I had NO problems taking a Dna test. Well maybe 30 seconds I was mad, but then common sense took over.

The fact of the matter is you are married to your husband and you have a right to be in Oc's life as well and OW can not say you can or can not be apart of it. The ow has to make sacrafices and be put out as well as she helped make this bed with your husband.

did your husband sign a AOP when the oc was born? That makes it a bit more stickier but can still request a dna test. I've seen it done.


Pep........I'm sorry I have to disagree with you on something. I am a single mother and my kids are my first priority......my divorce from my husband was actually best for my children. If you don't have both partners in a marriage working to make the marriage work it's not always best for your children. It can do more harm to them. As much as I would have loved to been married to my xh till death do us part I was not willing to be married and alone in the marriage. Alot of circumstances surrounded by children also have alot to do with how we as there as there parents handle them and handle the kids with them. Two parents are great but not every child who is raised by ONE parent is going to be unable to cope with the aftermath of divorce and be the a great adult and function in a normal relationship when they grow up as an adult. I just hate for it to be stereotyped as a single mother with young children. If we as adults react a certain way then I know our children will follow wheather that is postive or negitive. JMHO from my very own experience.

Mary - if your divorce was best for your children, you are an exception, not a rule. As a child, I wanted my mother to get a divorce. I wanted to be away from my father - the man who raised me. I remember wishing that I could find out that someone else was my father. How my mother kept a straight face thru that, I don't know... (remember, Mom thinks OM is my bio-dad).

Now I see the chaos that would have resulted. I got a chance to ponder on the man I would marry and have children with. I got to be mindful that this is a ONE TIME choice. Your children won't be raised with that gift and for that, I'm very sad for them. They also won't have the gift of living with a mother and a father.

See, this is the #1 reason that I am SO opposed to gay marriage. Children NEED BOTH a mother and a father, not two of one and none of the other... They need to see how to work together, to resolve difficulties together and to celebrate their differences rather than leave because of them...

Single moms so often don't have a choice. They have my admiration and gratitude for toughing it out when abandoned by an immature father. They provide as best they can. Single fathers too, so often don't have a choice. A so-called mother, so wrapped up in whatever is so awfully important to take precedence over the most important years of their child(ren)'s lives is not deserving of the title. And there are a few of those men on the general questions board and they also have my admiration. What a gift those children have to have an active father in their lives.

Those things said...

If my mother could tough out a marriage for 61 years, 50+ of which were not happy years from 3 weeks into the marriage until the day Dad was forced to stop drinking... then any reasonable person can work it out with another person who is or isn't. Parenting and doing what's best for the children requires maturity. It requires setting aside sacred cows for the family good. For the sake of a child, who needs a mother and a father.

It's too bad that in so many cases the mother and/or the father or both don't consider the needs of a child and try to exclude each other - as if the child is property...

It's too bad that in the case of the OW and OM on this board, they make choices that will ultimately cause their innocent children to be raised without the benefit of both parents. But that's on the road of adultery and once you choose that road, all other choices are removed from the ideal.

Just saying Mary - your way is not the ideal for your children. But it's the best you can do given the road you chose.

Hey Kay, yes I do remember the majority (I think) of your story. And this right here.


IT's a double edge sword. I come from a intact family and my parents will be celebrating there 60 year anniversary next year. So I get what your saying...difference is my parents were a team and loved each other and both had the same goals and worked for the future with each other.

I do NOT agree though however is the majority of cases when (I'll use my marriage as an example) there is caso from the adults going on 24/7 and that it is healthy for your kids to see one parent drunk all the time they are not working, sleeping in seperate rooms living seperate lives going in oppisite directions. When you have one child suttering all the time and the other begging you to stop fighting or stop drinking long enough to have family time. What is that teaching your children about marriage? To settle for and allow one partner to live alone with someone and have a family there but there really not there? Or it's okay to treat your spouse that way? The one who is suppose to be there and be your partner in life?

Some marriages can take it and even though there may not be much love there there is still enough respect for each other that they will make it work for there kids. Even if I would have had that I'd still be married.

It amazed me that within one month of my husband leaving my daughter stopped stuttering except for the once in awhile excitement.

It was much easier rasing my children because I was not having to raise an adult as well.

And what do you know come to find out he was cheating on me as well. And that is who he is with now.

I agree it is ideal to have both parents. It's the best ideal stitch. But I'm old enough to have seen kids raised in both intact and one parent homes to know that if the effort is there both can turn out pretty good. I've also seen where both intact and one parent homes have had there share of challenges in cases as well.

I made a mistake after i kicked my husband out but I never ever made the mistake on my kids time. My kids came first always.

My oc will have challenges. I know this. It's my job to make those challenges easier for her and do what I have to do to soften those for her and do what is best for her welfare. I'm prepared for this and I will do what it takes to make sure she is OKAY over this. Thus far so far so good. Granted she is only 4 and yes she has already had challenges and I've walked her through them without putting her father down.

My twins that are almost 10 now are very well behaved girls, get all a's and b's in school and every year have been on the honor and good citizenship award list. Of course they are not perfect but they do pretty darn good.

I don't put down there father to them either. THEY have told me they are happy with the way things are. They remember even though they were only 3 when we seperated that we are not together anymore. They love there dad but he does to them but he did to me. They don't depend on him and he did that to them, not me. I encourage them to spend as much time as possible with him. I go out of my way to let them spend time with them almost to a fault of disrupting my schedule and plans. My attorney has told me to stop it, but really whose best interst is that in, mine or my kids?

Again, if the adults do what they are suppose to do and nuture there kids and play positive roles in life mishaps kids will tend to do the same. I've seen it to many times and live it so that is why I believe that. When you have to disrupt the intact family then the way it's handled is how your kids for the most part (I realize not one size fits all)will follow in suite.

Kay I do admire both of your parents though making it work for all those years for the sake of you (and if you have brothers and sisters).

Marysway............NO I am NOT on probation for any sex acts. What kind of a statement is that to make? I'm sorry, but I find that a bit offensive.

If you read my thread under the topic Marriage Counseling, you will see where I'm at in the situation so far.

Hurt

Hurt, it was generalized and you took it in the wrong context. If you read my entire post I truely think you would have seen that. My point was and I've always stood for this is you have every RIGHT to be in that child's life. You are married to your husband and apart of his life. It was generalized blanket statement. I was sticking up for you and letting you know comeing FROM how I feel being the FOW w/oc how I feel and how it is period.
Unless I am mistaken you mentioned the ow did not want you around the oc? OR around for p/u and d/o? Was that you or someone else if it was someone else then I am sorry you took it the way you did, but my point to that comment is TOO BAD! No judge is going to put those types of conditions on visation unles it is something drastic as sex offenders, physcal abusive stitch's drug use etc. Otherwise the Ow needs to suck it up too and just apprceiate that she helped create this stitch and it is what it is. She too will be making compromises in order for this child to have the father in the child's life. Nothing more was intended with what I said.

If it was a generalized statement, you would have written "excluding people who have been charged with sex acts in the past" You said unless "I have been in trouble for sex acts"

Maybe I did take it the wrong way. It's hard to get someone's tone through a post. What's with the if I don't like the comment that's TOO BAD!

What are you getting so bent out of shape about? I'm sure other's know this, but don't you post on TOW? And you post here?

I don't know your story, so I really don't have an opinion about you.

Just wondering why you're on an infidelity board, and also on an OW board? Confusing to me.

To answer your question, No.......OW never said that she didn't want me around OC. I said that If I was her (and her boyfriend went back to his wife (ME)) that I probably wouldn't want the wife around my baby.

I read a little bit more of your post. Just so I have this right, and please correct me if I'm wrong. You have twin girls from an affair where you were the OW? And you are now married to someone else, or still married to the same person. Just trying to get a little background info. I'm not trying to embarass or judge you. Honestly.............God Bless!

Hurt

there are enough people out there that have either benefited from...or would have benefited from getting away from one parent to make it more than an exception. I would have greatly benefited if my mom had dropped off the face of the planet...let alone my dad divorcing her and raising us himself. I also know my son is far better off without his mom being a daily influence in his life.

I will also say that there are a lot of others out there just like me. While a 2 parent household is best....that only holds true if one of the parents is not a complete idiot.

We have people here that raise their children in homes with abusive spouses....active drug and alcoholic parents...sorry, those kids would be better off being raised by the sane parent and if there is none...then an adoptive family.

I have seen horror stories both as a cop and as a foster parent of what what happens to kids that fall victim to a horrible parent.

First of all H*ll to the NO that I post on TOW. When I first came across my stitch yes I did 5 years ago but ONLY in one forum and it had nothing to do with keeping an affair going. Nor was I there very long. Now that that part is cleared up on to the next one.

Yes I do have twin girls. NO they are not from xmm. I was married to my husband. We went through 4.5 years of infertilty and our last IVF seesion I actually got pregnant and was able to keep that pregnancy (had total of 8 miscarragies) to term. I never cheated on my husband. But I do believe that my marriage contributed to my state of mind that helpped lead to the affair I was in with a MM after I had kicked my husband out (6 months past). I had a horrible marriage my self esteem was pretty low and I could not believe that anyone would want a middle aged woman with toddler twins to spend time with let alone there life with. That is not an excuse for my affair because there is no excuses. It was wrong anyway you look at it.....I'm just telling you where I was at. I knew my xmm for 13 years prior to the affair. He use to work for my x-fiance when we had met. We had stayed friends through out the years and worked together again before anything had happened between us. It had been almost a year of not working together before it happened.
Xmm knew me my background my life and all I had gone threw with my x-fiance and x-husband. I guess it was comfortable due to our friendship and history. regardless again it's not an excuse it was frame of mind.

My x-husband cheated on me. I knew he had cheated on me, but was never able to get the proof and it was not until a couple of years after I kicked him out that he let it slip out on the time he had been with is now girlfriend that it was all put together. My x-fiance also cheated on me and I did catch him and that is why I never married him.

It sounds as if we BOth misunderstood each other and for that I apoligize. I am not sure what you mean by the comment you say I made that if you don't like the comment to bad as that is not my style but I will come back after I find it and clarify it for you.

I have a 4 year old little girl that is my OC. We are in NC and it's best for our stitch.

I've posted on this site for quite a few years. I actually tried to use the MB princliples in my own marriage before we split up. I bought the books and was familar with the site when this all happened with oc. I do have my feelings about C versus NC but I don't judge someone for there actions. It's not a perfect world. I do however express my feelings regarding the subject and insight where possible misinformation could be taken but I have made some in real life friends with several BW's with and without oc's and with and without contact. There are also some Bw's who can't get past my past and that is okay too....I will go look for that comment made by me and see what my intentions where when I made it and clarify.

Okay I was not saying that if you did not like my comment to bad, I was saying that it's too bad for any ow (any parent really) who tried to put demands on a BW on any type of visation with the spouse of the MM. To bad if she does not like it. She helped create this mess and so therefore she must TOO accept that and take the good with the bad. It is what it is.

I did not mean at all to bad if you did not like my comment. Again not my style. I would not be that

Moral dilemna of a lifetime. You got that right. Wow.

So......YES, you should be involved in the life of the other child.
BUT NOT at the expense of your wife or kids. They come first. Its what the WIFE needs and decides to do.

Humans have responsibilites to EVERYONE on earth to a certain extent. But the responsibilities to their immediate family overrides any others.

Imo.

A child is your immediate family...and he/she is due as much consideration as your wife/kids IMHO.

And in all honesty, while I stand by my original post, I am fully aware that if I sit and listen to reasons why you posted as you did, I would understand it completely.

Its a tough, tough call for me.

Hey Marysway! Sorry, I did misunderstand you. You shouldn't feel bad about having a relationship with someone else if you were not living with H at the time.

Your time alone/separated is to do what YOU want and find out what your needs are. Nothing wrong with having a little fun.

I had a friend who was dating a MM and got pregnant. She was posting on TOW for advice, and I was reading her posts. That's where I remember your name from. Didn't mean to upset you, I didn't realize that it was so long ago. I apoligize. You can whip me if you want!!! LOL

time ot get a better class of friends and not involve yourself in that type of filth over on TOW.

Naw.........If I did not care I would not have taken the time to explain. These are sensitive Issues. I KNOW. TOW was a long time ago (seems like longer than it was). It was the first place I found to deal with what I was going through. We ended up leaving that board and starting a board for both bw's and ow's going through it and believe it or not it worked for the most part some did not and that is to be expected then the board just turned into a mommy board which was great as we were all getting past it and moving on.

If it was that long ago then I probally know your friend. Or heard of her.

No hard feelings.

Marysway, It was "Manda1970" she was and still is married. Had affair with MM. He got both her and his wife pregnant 2 weeks apart!

She has NC with MM and H adopted the child. He was wonderful to her and helped her through her difficult pregnancy (bedrest) as if he were the natural father.

MedC..........Why do you always have to be so negative? What gives you the right to judge me by who my friends are? Obviously my friend and her H worked it out. Isn't that what we're all striving for? To make our marriages work and better them?

Just because you are a "straight Talker" doesn't give you the right to be mean................GEEZ!

you just don't get it. YOU should be judged by the company you keep. IMHO, if you have adulterers for friends, you are no better than them. And your "friend" was not DATING a married man...she was HAVING AN AFFAIR with a married man. There is a huge difference. duh.


Geez.