Angie: Welcome to MB. Hope you stick around.

I have a feeling that your brother's bio parents would have had a miserable life together no matter what they decided to do about the baby. Affairages (marriages that occur as the result of an affair) are almost never successful or happy. I believe the failure rate I have seen quoted here is around 95%. It's very difficult to build a healthy marriage on a foundation of lies and deceit.

I agree with writer - the problem wasn't that they had the child and gave him up. The problem was the actions that LED to the child. The child was the symptom, not the cause of their mutual dysfunction.



Have you ever dealt with an affair? Have you ever dealt with addiction? Do you understand the power it has over people.

Yes you aren't your husbands supervisor, but you ARE his partner. It isn't your job to keep him from temptation - it is HIS job to keep himself from temptation. If he has an affair it is HIS job to put into place protections to ensure it doesn't happen again, and to ensure it stays dead. Part of that protection is never seeing his affair partner again. Because he is human, and the affair was an addiction. Constantly throwing him into contact with his affair partner to see his OC is dangerous.

That's like asking a recovered alcoholic to only attend AA meetings at the local bar.

At some point he will slip.

As a loving wife and partner, you encourage healthy boundaries and help him keep them by helping him maintain his EPs.

Then, you disagree with Dr Harley.
NO ONE is lessening the "worth" of a child.


This is, FIRST AND FOREMOST, a MARRIAGE BUILDING site.

Yes, I most certainly disagree with Dr. Harley and by denying the child, you are indeed lessening their worth. And , yes, I know more than I care to admit about addiction. Learning to overcome your addiction does not mean avoidance - for instance, an alcoholic who cannot go to family functions where alcohol is served has not overcome the addiction. This is very different from, say, an alcoholic who can't go to a bar where the expressed intent of those there is to get drunk. There are other ways that a FWS can make contact with the child, perhaps having a third party pick up the child for visitation. Graduations, weddings, sure there will be times when the the FWS and OW might have to see each other. But if your marriage can't handle those few moments in time - and they really can be few - you have a much bigger issue to contend with.

MARRIAGE BUILDING is the FOCUS of MARRIAGE BUILDERS.

Angiebaby, perhaps you have wandered into the wrong website?

Quote

Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts.

Well then, you aren't going to get very far here. This place is about building strong marriages. It's about discussing the MB philosophy and learning to apply it.


So an addict should continue to expose themselves to their drug of choice, to test their recovery? And if they slip into temptation, too bad, so sad?

If your driving on a high mountain road, you don't drive as close to the edge as possible just to prove you can, you stay as far away from the edge as possible, so there is little chance you fall over.


To an alcoholic ALL alcohol is dangerous, no matter the venue. Once an alcoholic, ALWAYS an alcoholic. You don't get to lower your guard once you are 'recovered'. You can be 'recovered' for decades and relapse.

I really don't think you have much of an understanding of addiction, regardless of your exposure level.


Yes, there are. And many people here have navigated just those waters. It is difficult, but possible. A third party could work. There are many options.

However, choosing to NOT have contact with the OC is just as valid a choice, should a couple decide that is what is BEST for the marriage. Often OC are detrimental to the security, peace and financial stability of the Children of the Marriage. Should THEY be made to suffer, be thrown under the rug, for the OC? If all children are important and have value, why should the COM suffer?



So, how many marriages have YOU saved from adultery?

No, I don't think I got lost! I think this is just one of those times where my own religious upbring gets in the way of Dr. Harley's advice. Surely, you are not saying to throw the baby out with the bath water Pep.

I guess my question, before I get successfully crucified here, is how can you have a successful marriage and have this piece that surely will always loom large over your head? Done is done, and just really feel that this is one of those situations where you can run, but you can't hide.

Vibrissa - I do think that, like I said before, everyone suffers in this mess, including the COM.

Do you understand the MB concept of POJA ?

POJA is the key to long and successful marriage-building-recovery ... after adultery, after OC.

The key to POJA is that both spouses must reach enthusiastic agreement for BIG important decisions, such as contact or no contact with OC.

My opinion should not be considered.
Your opinion should not be considered.
The two MARRIED people must both be enthusiastic.


If one spouse gets coerced into contact, the marriage will be miserable.

I am saying that, thus far, I see no evidence that you have read the MB concepts or any of the MB books, or that you have a rudimentary understand of MB concepts, or that you have ever offered MARRIAGE BUILDING advice to anyone.

Are you even interested in MB concepts?

angiebaby
"an alcoholic who cannot go to family functions where alcohol is served has not overcome the addiction. This is very different from, say, an alcoholic who can't go to a bar "

Unfortunately you know nothing about addiction. The way a WS must have NC with their addiction substance it's the same for any other addict.

It is possible. Read some of the stories on here. Many have recovered. Some had contact with their child, some actually adopted their OC and raised them with their betrayed spouse, some have NO CONTACT with the child and the mother. There are examples of each kind here that have SUCCESSFULLY recovered their marriages. What works for one family - won't necessarily work for another.

However, NC is part of EACH of those success stories. Just read Dealan-de's story to see how NOT going NC can turn out. They tried just what you recommended. Letting the OC in their life, helping the OW, it resulted in at least one other OC, maybe 2 - it's been a while since I've reread her story.




In this case - the goal should be to MINIMIZE the suffering, especially of the innocents. And the BEST solution is a healthy strong marriage between the couple.

and don't forget angie, that the BS and COM are innocent in this mess.

I choose to stay silent as to not get thrown off this board.

Well, I will just say that biblically the needs of all children whether COM or OC's DO NOT supercede the needs of a husband and wife and the bonds of their relationship.

Again, this is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site, not a save the OC site.

bump

^^^^

Assuming you actually knew this friend in real life and were not just following vicariously on TOW �

Serious question: Why did you not expose your friend�s adultery to her partner in adulterery�s wife?

Not doing so makes you an accessory to the adultery. You should be ashamed.

Two friends of my wife knew of her VLTA for years but kept quiet. They often sat across from me at combined family functions and looked me in the eye and pretended they were good people. But they were not, nor are any who abet adulterous secrets.

That kind of person tends to eventually get what they deserve, don�t they.

Such people are as scummy as the adulterers. They are not welcome anywhere near me or my family. Further, I told everyone who knows them about the adultery they protected by their silence. Neither have any close friends left that I know of.

Dated a MM.

Just a mistake.

What a minimization.

It is to laugh.


Oh, depending on the state you live in, your H could be ordered to pay up to 20% of his pre-tax income to the OW for OC support. Some states even require he pay for the child�s college past the age of 18. Does not matter if he has neither visitation rights nor any kind of contact whatsoever, either.

Are you prepared for your children to have less so your H�s OC can have more? It�s in your future no matter what you do.


BTW, my DS may not be my son. He hates his mother for it too. Barely gives her the time of day any more. You don�t know how this is going to turn out. Neither does your adulterous H. It�s pretty much out of your hands.

V - 2 OC, tho the 2nd we didn't do DNA on.

We have custody of the children, and there is minimal contact with the bio-mom (she can't seem to put the children above her own wants and that's just fine with us).

Just some clarification.

I, too, advocate NO CONTACT - for many reasons.

Oh. And Hi Appy.

Every time I hear That's Amore, I think of your son.