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#2137885 10/06/08 09:13 PM
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Thread moved from "In recovery" cos it aint!
Whats the stats and likelihood of Plan B working?



10/05/08

Thanks again to all for replies.
Update...

This week has been hard work. She has been working long hours all week but we seem to have been getting on real well. Despite agreeing for her to move out next week she has been making a real effort to get on. We've been having time together and enjoying each other's company. Lots of tender little messages via SMS even while at work. Even discussed in some detail about moving away from the area.

Today is Saturday and she came to me today and said that she is so sorry for what has happened and wants to make amends. Said that she hates OM and feels pure guilt for all that has happened. She said she wanted me to know I'm a good man and realises she wants to be with me forever. She then asked me to come to bed for a while and we shared some intimate time together in the afternoon.

Our son came over this eve and we sat and had dinner together and had a great time at the table chatting and joking. After dinner she said she was going to get something from her car then disappeared off up the road. Guess where she went? Yup, straight over to OM's house for a little after dinner activity.

Anyway, I called her up on her cellphone and surprisingly she answered. She was there with him and on speakerphone I asked her why she had gone there. She said that she has realised that she is in love with him and not me and denied flatly all that we had spoken about and done earlier. Point blank refused to admit it. I asked her to pass the phone to him and she did. I told him that this was all BS and that he is getting told as much BS as I am and that we need to talk. So I headed over to his place for a little tete-a-tete. So guess what now? They wont answer the door! hiding in the backroom I shouted to him not to be a [censored] and come speak to me but I got a call on my cellphone saying to get lost cos they called the cops.

I went back home to chat with my son who is now totally distraught over the whole thing (he is 24 but still our baby).

She finally came home a couple hours after and then announced that things are over between us and although she doesnt want to live with him she is still crazy in love with him and can't find peace or love with me because of it. She says she has tried to be happy with me but she saw him at work on Thursday this week and had a row with him in which he threatened suicide so she went to see him tonight just to make sure he was ok. Poor excuse, I know the reason she had to go there.

She then went up to bed and came back down a short while later to ask me to come to bed too as she misses not having me in the bed with her and still loves me. WTF is all that about? Has she lost her marbles completely? I slept on the couch.

As for exposing it, it's pretty much there already. The whole family is aware on both sides. This doesnt seem to bother her one bit. She has disowned almost all of her own family over it her sisters are not talking to her and even her son has now refused to chat to her. Her mom is still talking to her although she doesnt approve and still chats to me and seems genuinely concerned for my welfare.

I've still not spoken to OM's W yet, mainly because she is out of the picture. She has left him, filed for D and their house is up for sale already. My W has even told me that she has showed no desire for reconciliation. I have her cellphone number so I think I will try and talk to her this week if only to find out what he has told her and vice-versa.

I can totally see it like a crack habit. It's much like that but the problem is that I am pretty screwed in terms of getting her to go cold turkey.

I think need to make a break. I need to get her out of the house and out of my life for a while if only to restore my sanity. My problem is that the house is joint owned so I can't even throw her out legally. So do I leave? If I do leave she has it all. She gets the nice house, the comfortable life and the freedom to see loverboy however she wants. I wouldnt be surprised if she invites him over to sleep in our bed.

Geez I am so mad at her now but strangely still in love. What the [censored] can I do?




10/06/08

Well, I've delivered the PBL and told her what I expect.
1. Stop seeing him.
2. Leave her job.
3. Help make arrangements to move house.
or...
Be gone by the end of the week and dont be contacting me until you can agree to these things.

She point blank refused on the spot to leave her job. Funny because I would've expected him to be the hard one to stop.

Curiously, she said that she knows she has done something really bad and needs to punish herself for it so will move away.

Thank you for your suggestions CV55 and I have included much of your text in my letter. Especially the bits about never being friends and picturing the new life.

Time will tell but I reckon that we have come to the end of the road. Call me pessimistic here but I feel that this is the end for our relationship as she will not abandon him for me. Feeling rather sad and not looking forward to an empty house by the end of the week.




Me 44
Her 43
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Expose to the OM's wife, just because that is part of the MB plan.

And Plan B DOES work, but you have to go very dark and let her get all of her emotional needs met by him.

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I did a plan B, and I was completely dark.
Did not respond to the email he sent. Only used the intermediary, and that was only me replying when they needed to know something, I never sent messages back.
I stopped using my online social networks.
I vanished.

I am in recovery.


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Thanks all :-)

Had a blazing row last night. I think the Plan B letter really upset her.

She wrote a note back with some odd stuff in it about being really sorry and that she wants to go live on her own and just be with OM when she needs him but not fair to even let me hang on as I am too good a man for her. She said she wants me to move on and find someone better. It made me weep a little. I responded to her with the fact that I love her, that she is very special to me and that all she has to do is the basic requests of the PBL and we can work on happiness. I also made it clear again that I cannot tolerate anyone else in the picture.

We slept in the same bed but it wasn't comfortable as she was still very shaken by the ultimatum. I am holding together but feeling really scared about the future. I fear losing her but holding my cool because I can't put up anymore even if it means losing her to him.

It's all getting to me a bit and would appreciate some words of encouragement that I've done the right thing.


Me 44
Her 43
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Relationship 26 years
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You come here for advice. Then you do every thing half way.

It's not exposure if you do not tell the OMW.

You are not in plan B if you hand WW a letter then go to sleep in the same bed.

Where is the NC of the plan B?

When you start a plan B you change the locks and get her to leave. If WW will not leave then you leave. You not only do not see her, you cut off all financial support.

That's a plan B.

Let us know when you start plan B.

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Hey Bob, trying to keep track of peoples sits around here is a full-time job in itself. Especially harder when I can only get on this site when my W is out!

What you have done takes courage, there are alot of similarities in our sits, yet you have taken that big step of acting on it. I hope things work out for the best whatever happens.


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Hey Bob! This is the 1st chance I've gotten to check back with you. It's good you're asking for support. This is really tough stuff. Write as often as you need to in order to get through this, and you will. I'll never forget what an MB buddy told me about 6 months into my hell. He said, "CV, just remember this. In 2 yrs, whether you're with your H or not, you will be in a better place." Those words really helped me and I hope they help you.

One thing I wanted to tell you in Recovery is this. If you are going to go forward with Plan B, do it because you believe it is the right thing to do. You can't go into this because I or others here are telling you to. In saying that, I 100% believe it is the only shot you have to "maybe" save your M. Going back to my crack analogy, your W is not going to give up her crack(OM)until he is out of her life. I'm a counselor and for the past 5 months took a series of workshops on addiction. The similarities are astounding between a drug addict and a WS. Right now your WW is making major decisions while under the influence of all the "in-luv" chemicals in her peabrain. That's why you have to be the sane one. IMO a sane person does not live in the same house with their S who is boinking someone else. That is emotional abuse.

Before I officially knew about my H's A I knew something was up. I knew he was treating me like sh!!. I knew I was sad all the time. I knew he wouldn't talk to me. I knew I felt like he was having an A. And finally I knew that this was not what I signed up for in a M. I knew that I would rather be lonely alone, then lonely in my M. So I told him either we talk or the M is over. That's when the details of the A began to dribble out.

If you are miserable in this sitch, then what do you have to lose? If you go forward with Plan B, live your life. If you feel really depressed get IC and see if an antidepressent will help you cope better. Go out with friends. Exercise. Be the best you that you can be. Be a great dad. Remember that you are a great guy. I mean that! I have met some of the coolest, best men here on MB. Men who are committed and will do what it takes to save their Ms. You're one of those guys and if your W doesn't get it then she doesn't deserve you.

Say "The Serenity Prayer" if it speaks to you. I lived by that prayer and still do. I used to blast the most angry music that I could. I especially enjoyed the Smashing Pumpkins. Do whatever it takes, but live a good life and allow your W to face the consequences of her actions. And no offense to one of the posters here, but I have to disagree. Don't you move out of your house. Don't do anything to make your WW comfy.

You might be sad when she leaves. However, hopefully your sanity will be restored. Hang in there!

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Thank you for guidance and CV55 thanks for the support and the faith you've given me, it is much appreciated and heartfelt. Your post gave me hope and strength.

As for where we are, I have given her until the end of the week to make her move and I will stick to that. She has been on leave from work this week and so if she is prepared to give up her job and follow the plan she should not go back when due on Monday but my guess is she will go back. Still not entirely sure what I do if she calls my bluff and says "I aint leaving my job and I aint moving anywhere!".

I know more than one person has said I shouldn't leave but maybe that is the only thing I can do and then cut off financial support for the household. Since we're basically 50% shareholders of the house mortgage I can set up a 50% payment of the mortgage interest and cut out all other bills for the house entirely. Utility bills, insurances etc...

Another problem is that my office is in the home workshop so if I walk from the home I walk from my business and income too.

I'm going away on Friday pm for the weekend with a few friends and my son returning Sunday morn. Maybe that will give her a short period with me not around to think straight. If she is still there when I get back and still in her job sticking to her usual habits, I'm not sure exactly what I do tbh (?).

On the positive side we did have a long and sensible discussion today about how she could find another job and what she should do. This discussion was initiated by her. Not sure if this is her really thinking about how to move along or just a smokescreen but if nothing else it shows it's made her consider the reality of my letter.

In the meantime until Sunday/Monday, so we can survive, I will be restricting contact to the practicalities of living under the same roof. Ideally, we need to sleep apart but I don't see why I should be on the couch again! She refuses to sleep anywhere other than the bed and since I don't see why I should suffer, I'm gonna be stubborn and stick to the bed. Maybe just separate bedsheets might say the right thing smile

PhilJC, I have read your threads and although your overall sit is very different there are a lot of similarities in behaviour and I guess we're in a similar place on the timeline of events. If you like, drop me a private msg and maybe we can share a few stories.


Me 44
Her 43
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Relationship 26 years
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Bob, glad my post gave you some hope. The big thing to remember is that you, as a BS, do have choices. You can't make her grow up and stop having an A, but you can choose to remove yourself from her sh!!

You wrote:

"Ideally, we need to sleep apart but I don't see why I should be on the couch again! She refuses to sleep anywhere other than the bed and since I don't see why I should suffer, I'm gonna be stubborn and stick to the bed. Maybe just separate bedsheets might say the right thing."

How about telling her this. "WW, I am not comfortable sleeping in the same bed with you knowing you are sleeping with and boinking OM. So I at least hope you can give me the respect and consideration of not sleeping in the same bed with me while you are involved with him."

If she doesn't want to leave, but won't give him up, maybe say something like, "Listen WW, you looovvvve your OM so much, why not go live with him. I really don't want to live in the same house with you, my W, while you are sleeping with someone else. So why not just go ride off into the sunset with OM."

If that doesn't work then maybe legal separation. Others here, more knowledgeable about Plan B hopefully will know more then I do.

Hang tough Bob! Believe it or not, these WSs can actually be quite funny because they're so stupid.


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Hi again it's me crazy

Well, I've been away for a few days and left her at home to have a good think about things. Also good to catch up with some old friends, some of whom have been through D and were very supportive of my sit.

On my return I found out she had been in contact with him and although I am fairly sure she did not go to see him I know she made a call to him at his work. Despite a solemn promise that she would not.

Before I left she was positive abt things and said she will give my PBL good thought but the one thing she feels she cannot do is leave the job. My compromise (of sorts) was for her to stay in the company and get a transfer to a different part of the country but she won't even do that so I guess it leaves us with no option.

Anyway, we had a discussion about the practicalities of her living away in a studio apartment so that is how we are going to play it. I'm gonna take over the household bills entirely so she can go get her own place. She is worried about the expense of her own place so I suggested her moving into the empty home with OM which she seemed really p!ssed off about grin LOL

She has asked me for a couple more days to get the aptmt all arranged so I will just keep out of the way with work and away from home in the eves to give her space to sort out and go.

Should have the place to myself by Weds this week. I guess it will be lonely but better than living on the edge all the time.

Let's see where this goes but que sera que sera huh?


Me 44
Her 43
Married 14 years
Relationship 26 years
1 son 24 left home 4yr ago
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Hi Bigbob! It seems there is some confusion here about Plan B. Plan B is not an ultimatum, but a love letter that is given upon separation. It states that you will have no contact with her until she ends her affair. And once it is delivered, there should be no contact. You are in no position to go into Plan B if you still live together.

Now, when she moves out it would be appropriate to give her a Plan B letter and go DARK. You don't need or request her agreement to go into Plan B. The letter will never be discussed becasue you won't be in contact TO discuss it. So her endorsement is irrelevant.

Hope that makes sense. After she moves out THEN you can go into Plan B and deliver her a letter.

You say you have exposed the affair, can you bring me up to speed about who has been told? Is there a OMW and has she been told? Have you confronted the OM yourself?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hi Melody,

Yes I have given her a letter perhaps not a PBL proper and a bit premature but I was kind of hoping she would respond to it. I was hoping that once I had made it clear to her in writing what I felt about her, exactly what I was asking for and how little that was she may come round. It was a very heart felt letter explaining how much I loved her, cared for her, regretted some of the things that had been missing between us and how I wanted to work at our M but I also told her some of the things that CV55 suggested that felt right for my situation. I havent even mentioned NC as yet, the only thing that came close was to say that if we did split permanently I would not allow myself to be friends as long as she was involved with OM because the A and their relationship is built on lies and deceit and I would not associate myself with that behaviour.

In terms of exposing it, pretty much the whole family knows on both sides and have for some weeks. I have made sure that everyone is aware of most of the facts. I've not spoken directly to OMW yet but will if I can. It seems she has changed her cell number and since she is no longer in the marital home with OM and staying elsewhere with family it's a little difficult to track her down. I will keep trying.

As for confronting the OM I have seen him on three occasions now in the street when he has been with her but each time he runs off as soon as I come into view! As soon as he sees me he is off in the other direction. Not that I am an aggressive guy normally by any means but I am a bit larger than him and he knows I would not shy away from putting one on him so prob best that he has got outa my way when I have been mad. I have actually gone round to his place when in a calmer mood and tried to just talk (see above) but he/they wouldn't open the door. I get the impression she doesnt want me to talk to him as she has been spinning both of us all sorts of lies and she will be exposed for it.

I think the best thing to do here and now is to wait until she goes then contact her through her sister, deliver a letter as necessary then go dark. She has said to me that when she leaves it would be nice if I would meet her for evenings out or at friends places. For now I have just said "we'll see" so as not to leave her believing that I would when I do go dark.

Curiously, she spoke to me this morn and again discussed the practicalities of giving her job up and starting afresh. I just smiled and remained agreeable. She know what's needed as a rescue plan so there's not really much to add by me. She needs to show me by her actions that she takes our M seriously or things follow the line I have told her.

Ordered copies of "surviving an affair" and "his needs her needs" yesterday.

Last edited by bigbob1964; 10/13/08 04:53 AM.

Me 44
Her 43
Married 14 years
Relationship 26 years
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Update

Had a chat this morn. She is still living at home and having trouble finding an apartment worth moving to. She's promised to be away by this Sunday which may mean moving to her sisters place as a temporary step but at least it gets her away from the house in the interim.

I'm doing my best to be happy and cheerful so as not to leave her with the image of a miserable bugger when she goes.

Worryingly, I am feeling kinda keen to get my space and I think there will be some very mixed emotions when she walks out the door. Relief and sadness at the same time I reckon it will be. Just a bit aprehensive right now.

Still not found out how to contact OMW yet.

Is there any examples of real life Plan B letters anywhere for me to see? I wanna make sure I have put everything properly in place.

Thanks all smile


Me 44
Her 43
Married 14 years
Relationship 26 years
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D-Day 05 Jul 08
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Plan B (of sorts) happened Jan 4th ended Jan 12th
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bigbob, you're doing a great job. Just remember when she finally goes you need to go really dark. You don't want her stopping by to chat, or whatever she will want to do in order to meet the need for you. Follow Plan B exactly and if your WW has it in her to get her sh!! together she will. If no one responds to your Plan B letter question start another thread with that in the title. Take Care!

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The purpose of Plan B is to protect YOURSELF and your remaining love for your WS. A good Plan B needs careful consideration / preparation before implementing.

Some very important things to consider:

Plan B letter: This letter basically states that there is to be no contact whatsoever between you & WS until such a time as conditions YOU state are met (i.e. No Contact with OP, Willingness to work on marriage, marital counseling, etc…). The plan B letter is a “roadmap” to the WS on what YOU need to consider reconciliation

If you’re not sure if you’ve written a good plan B letter, post it. We’ll give you some suggestions / critic. A good rule of thumb with plan B letters: The shorter and more to the point the better.


Intermediary: As you’ve already noticed, any contact with the fogged out WS is caustic and ends up withdrawing units from your LB. The simple solution to this is to not have contact.

That is where the intermediary comes in. The intermediary is the person that your WS has to contact to get a message to you. The job of the intermediary is to pass messages directly from WS to you & from you to WS. The intermediary is NOT to interpret the communications in any way and simply pass the message back and forth.

Do NOT accept direct communications from the WS (phone, email, text messages, direct conversation, etc…) as this breaks plan B and allows WS to get his “family” fix.

If WS phones (make sure you have caller ID) or and unrecognized number comes across, let it go to voicemail. If the VM is from WS delete it. If you pick up the phone and WS is on the other end, Hang UP!

If WS emails: Delete it! A better alternative to this is to block his incoming emails. You can do this various ways depending on the email system you use. Let us know if you need help blocking these. Someone on the board will likely know how to block whatever system you are using.

If WS text messages: Delete it!

Direct Conversation: Turn your back and walk to a supportive group and / or leave.

If you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?” If no, hang up / leave.

Make sure that they know that they are not welcome inside your home until the conditions outlined in your letter are met. If the WS comes in anyway, go to another room and shut the door. Again; if you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?”


Finances: It is best to have this set beforehand. Any deviations need to be arranged through the intermediary.


Family Relations: State your desire that you do not wish to hear any “news” about your WS. Let them know what it going on and what the intent of your plan is. Thank them for their support.


Plan B tends to drive a WS nuts! They can no longer get their “good normal family” fix. They will try very hard to break your plan b and get back to “cake eating”. Do not let this happen! Give the WS a little preview of what it will be like to actually “lose” his family.

It is not too late to get a good plan b going. Post back with any questions.

Another important aspect of plan B is the transference of Power. Once you are comfortably in plan B power over your life shifts back to YOU. You no longer have to worry about what the WS will think of this or that. You are back in control of your own life.

BTW: This shift in power really bothers the WS. They begin to wonder if they really might loose you. :MrEEk:


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Bob,

Walking and CV have both given you good advice and support.

Plan B is not for the weak. It takes good planning, strength and support to implement. It means completing a good plan A which helps you identify your personal and marital boundaries. Plan B helps you implement those boundaries.

For my, those boundaries were initially a very long list. When I went back and pondered it deeply, I realized there were a few non-negotiable items. My list then went down to 2 main points:

1. No OP in my life.
2. No WS in my life.

From there my next step was to get my mind and heart in sync. No more being mad at the WS and then feeling sorry for the WS.
This took time. I had to be patient with myself since my heart was stubborn. In time my heart learned you can not and should not allow a WS in one's life.

I had to pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience in order to handle the onslaught of anger from the WS. Ws' do NOT like t/b controlled. In reality, the WS' need t/b controlled.

I had to realize it was OK to need t/b in control. I learned to differentiate between WS babble and valid points from my real H.

I learned it was ok choose how and when I communicated and listed to my real H vs the WS. I then informed him that I did not wish to speak to the WS side of his split personality. I even made him check that character at the sidewalk and not allow his WS mode into my home. When the WS would try to creep in, he w/b asked to leave. All conversation ended with the WS.

What many don't tell you here is that plan B is a safety plan for you and your family. It is a tough love plan and that is why it is vital you inform your personal support group of it's implementation and rules.

As for how plan B will affect the WS. Expect the WS NOT to like it. It means the WS is losing control over the BS and the BS is taking back the control for the family (as it should be).

So expect flack and threats from the Ws. Ignore those. Concentrate on yourself, your family and sighting of your real spouse.

For me, plan B was very helpful. To this day, when I have to deal with an idiot who displays WS tendancies.... I implement plan B. wink

Hope this helps.

Orchid


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Quote
The job of the intermediary is to pass messages directly from WS to you & from you to WS. The intermediary is NOT to interpret the communications in any way and simply pass the message back and forth.

Sorry but I believe that your interpretation of the intermediary's role is incorrect. ALL communication from the WS to the BS is heavily redacted to remove non-essential, possibly manipulative communication.

eg. The WS writes that because you are a jerk the kids need counseling and you are ruining their lives and they have an apointment on Friday. If you would stop this childish no talking credo we can solve our problems. Please give me more time, I can't be so cruel to the OP.

Intermediary tells you " Your children have an appointment with a counselor on Friday"


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Yes this is true, an intermediary should be both a reliable messenger and a thoughtful editor.

Last edited by chrisner; 10/17/08 03:57 PM.

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Hi all,

Latest developments...

She was supposed to move out Sunday (Yday) and she had all her stuff packed to go to her moms place but she was working Sunday and didnt get back til quite late so we agreed she could shift everything in the morning (Monday - Today).

Well this morning, I helped her load the stuff into the car and waved goodbye as I left for work myself. My intention was to pop around to her sisters place to deliver a PB letter when I came home from work and whilst she was still at work herself so that she got it after she came home and I wasn't around to scream at either in person or over the phone.

However, about half hour after I arrived at work I got a call on my cellphone. Maybe I shouldnt have answered but I did. She told me that she didnt want to go, knows that she loves me desperately and can't bear to be away from me. She says that she feels that the break may cause more hurt than good. That she wants nothing more to do with OM or the other life that has hurt our M and wants us to work on our relationship and family life.

As I've already given her the list of steps we need to take, I told her that this is what is necessary for us to proceed and we dont have a future until she does. She agreed that everything is sensible on that list and she is willing to do all of it as long as we can stay together and work together on making things right between us.

In basic terms what I previously asked for was:
No contact with OM (and follow plan of NC letter etc)
Leave job (later agreed to compromise of transfer)
Make plans to move house away from area

I told her that once these were in place we can start to work on a recovery plan but until then we have no future.

So she knows that it what is needed for us to move forward.

My dilemma is now whether I accept her response on the terms I asked for or tell her she needs to go away anyway and make a decision once the dust has settled.

The uncertainty for me is whether she really does love me and want to make things right or that this is just a panic knee-jerk reaction to the reality of moving out. Am I just being taken for a ride again?

Do I let her stay home on this promise? Maybe I shouldn't have answered that call but now I have, what to do?


Me 44
Her 43
Married 14 years
Relationship 26 years
1 son 24 left home 4yr ago
WS had A started in Oct 07
D-Day 05 Jul 08
Plan A for 5 months
Plan B (of sorts) happened Jan 4th ended Jan 12th
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 810
R
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R
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 810
There will be more responses - but a NC letter that she writes and you send after reading to your approval is essential first step.

Otherwise the temptation of jumping on the fence will overwhelm her at some point down the road.

She may have had a fog clearing moment when she realized that you meant business.



Me:52
W: 52
Married: 32 yrs
2 Sons (29 & 23)
1 Dtr (20)
1 GDtr (2.5) precious little girl
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