Maybe I do not understand this. But, it seems to me that if a spouse cheats and wants to repair the marriage, the cheater should be falling all over him/herself to meet the needs of the betrayed. Same with making the marriage a more attrctive place.
Yet, I see BS's endeavoring to "meet' the cheater's needs like crazy after the discovery. How is this not a form of going doormat or rewarding bad , hurtful behavior.
I'm not talking long term, as I feel there should be mutual effort to meet each other's needs> But, shouldn't the yeoman's effort be born by the cheater at first. Seems someone would lose respect for you if they cheated and you started falling all over yourself to accomdate him or her. Makes you look weak and desperate and that is not attractive.

You do this as an attempt to get the WS to stop the adultery. If the adultery doesn't stop, the marriage is doomed. When affairs result in divorces, it is usually because the cheater refuses to stop cheating.

The early parts of Plan A are non-intuitive for most people because most people don't understand wayward spouses.

Well, there seems to be a lot of conflicting approaches. Dobson recommends taking a hard line and giving ultimatums. I've read the most effective method is the "180", basically not engaging in any real interpersonal encounters other than the business of taking care of kids and running the household. Essentially, this allows the Bs to get some control of his/her life back and shows the WS that the BS can live without him/her.
Seems that pledging to meet needs as the result of this betrayal endorses the oft seen jusifying and blameshifting utilized by the Ws to deal with the cognitive dissonance of trying to reconcile their self image with this abusive behavior.

zelmo,

First thing I want to say to you is

You have broken the code. The reason Harley's method works is because it is based on dealing with marriages for many years. It is very counter intuitive as you have so correctly pointed out.

You can see the conversation and how it goes:

"My W cheats on my and you want me to do what???

Be nice to her!!!! RIGHT!!

My W withdraws from me when the affair is over and I am not getting any and you want me to do what?????

Give her time and treat her well!!!!! RIGHT!!

My W is nice to me one day, withdraws the next, and then is just plain mean as a snake the next day and you want me to do what????

Be steady and reassure her!!! RIGHT!!!

My W cheated on me, lied to me, and who knows what else and you want me to do what????

Not expect an apology!!!! RIGHT!!!! "

Yup, that is plan A, that can be plan B, and it sure is recovery.

Zelmo, people have affairs for reasons and many times you will see here that the reason is called a Disrespectful Judgement, DJ. These DJ's are the most deadly of all love busters because they are unfounded assumptions upon which one of the spouse acts and begins to justify their dumb decisions.

Plan A is to show that forgiveness is possible, that change (they are not going back to the same old marriage) is possible, and that their DJ's were wrong.

Plan A has to be of limited time because it requires the BS to suspend the taker part of their personality and be pretty much a give WHILE maintaining their boundaries. NOt easy, but the success rate exceeds other plans.

What must eventually happen is that your giver/taker must be balanced as must the WS. But, first the WS must go through withdrawal which is named because the behavior does resemble a drug addict going through it. It takes time.

Then there is the roller coaster of emotions, the WS often has a hard time facing what they have done, they deny, they accept, they protect themselves, and all the while the BS (YOU) is thinking "will you do it or get off of the pot".

The reason the Harleys are so successful is that they know most normal people would expect the WS to fall on their knees and beg forgiveness. In reality this rarely happens. If ones expectation is the begging for forgiveness then often the marriage is ending before the WS really gets back on their feet emotionally. The Harley's noted that if one can give them, the WS, time to address what they have done and get back on their feet emotionally with help from the BS, there is a much higher chance for not only recovering the marriage but building an even better marriage which is to the benefit of both parties.

So there you have it my thumb nail outline of the MB approach. It really is about time, it is about offering hope, it is about allowing both parties to get back on their feet BEFORE any major decisions are made, rather than "I just caught him/her and she doesn't seem sorry, I am out of here."

Sorry comes much later and has more meaning when it does.

God Bless,

JL

Okay, I understand this. But, man, one must have to be the second coming of Ghandi or Mother Theresa to pull this off.
Weird thing about this is tha in normal, everyday life, when someone wrongs me, I'm really good about getting past it and patching things up.
But, there is somethingabout this type of transgression that makes it a lot, I mean a lot, harder to hold my tongue.
It's pretty much moot in my situation, as I am divorced. I intuitively did a form of the 180. I gave my XW every oportunity to come clean and I really kept myself together. I suggested MC and gave her 3 months to talk to me about this(this was while we lived together while, unbeknownst to me, a house was being readied for her and the OM). She derided the concept of MC and ridiculed me for getting IC.
My wife was super pissed about my exposing the affair, claiming I had taken years off her mom's life by telling them. I told her brothers and uncles, my golf buddies, as well. I'd hoped that someone could intervene and get her to come clean and work on our marriage.
It's the weirdest thing. I never really expected her folks to rally behind me, but they did. She was so pissed that they kept inviting me over for breakfast and to play golf and go on vaction with her dad, brothers and uncles.
I wonder if there was anything I could have done differently, but, I don't think I could have done anything to change her mind. I know for a fact that she would never consider getting any type of assistance from counseling. Nor, would she ever admit to the affair despite concrete evidence via my PI and her cell phone as well as the observations of her family and our friends. Nothing I could have done, I guess.

Zelmo,

I suspect you are right. Actually from what you have said, you did/do have what it takes to have done what we are discussing, the problem was your W never gave you a chance. While it doesn't seem so to the BS, the WS really must give the BS a chance to do the things I listed or really there is no hope.

It seems to me you did your best and you gave her a chance and time. No one could ask more. I do hope you find peace in all of this, and hopefully that will come with a better understanding of things through being here.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks, JL. I beat myself up for a long time wondering if I could have done things differently. ut you are right. It is simple. She did not want to do the work or face her actions.

So Zelmo how long have you been divorced?
How are you doing on the road to emotional recovery?
Has your head stopped spinning?
What did you find helped you through this very traumatic time?
How do you feel now that it is over?
What brings you to MB?

Well, I think this whole thing changed me quite a bit. I was very pollyanna about this whole infidelity thing. I had no idea just how prevalent it is, despite having been through it once before in a previous marriage. But, that was way before the internet and not much info was available.
Now that I have found that it is so rampant, I see no reason to become involved in a committed relationship ever again. I learned that i just do not have the tools or insight to see the red flags or to evaluate character.
I came here to see how others have handled this and to try to get an understanding of what drives this infidelity craze.
I also want to get some ideas on what to tell the kids when they get older. DO they get the truth or is it glossed over.
I am truly amazed by the number of guys I've met that havebeen cheated onby their wives. I had no idea so many women were like this.

Oh, my divorce was final about 16 months ago. I am doing much better but still have anxiety attacks and some depression. I lost over 30 lbs, initially. I've gained it back and am in really good shape physically from working out like crazy.
I tool AD's for about 1 year and have had a lot of therapy to help me deal with this. My family and my XW's family have been great to me. My kidsare really good and we have a wonderful relationship. And, I jettisoned a cancerous, NPD tumor with the divorce.

zelmo

One could of been flawless or had some missteps in fighting for their marriage. Or not even try to of saved their marriage. And you must be aware that regardless where a BH fits into the above sentence. That some WW's have set their mind to leave regardless and did.

They have just put the carriage in front of the horse. Affair before divorce.

Zelmo:

Welcome to MB. I have seen some of your posts; in particular a few referencing cluster B personality disorders. I too was married to a WW with cluster B PD's, and I know what is like to try and heal yourself after disengaging from a M to a PD.

I am 16 mos into the process too...although I am still in the process of a nasty divorce. Unfortunately, while I was M'd, I knew nothing of personality disorders...it wasn't until after she left and immediately filed for D, that I started learning of PD's. Two months ago, I got the final Custody Evaluation report (that she requested when she attempted to take the children away) that had a "diagnoses of Adjustment Disorder, Unspecified; Personality Disorder (Mixed Personality Disorder With Borderline, and Antisocial Features)." Both Cluster B PD's.

I can understand your reluctance regarding future committed relationships, but I choose to believe that a future relationship based on MB principles (and reality) can be a healthy and fulfilling one, which is one of the reasons I still lurk here.

LoBoy

Oh, come on. There's little to understand. They are douchebags who can't keep their pants on.

I hear you loud and clear. I don' think that I could have done a Plan A after finding out. But then again, I never thought I would stay with a cheater, so I guess you can't really know until you are in that position.

Lostboy, I had no knowledge of the clustr B' , either until I found out about the affairs. First mention of them was from my attorney, a former social worker. I described the things that had gone on for years, the verbal abuse, the silent treatments, the cruel practical jokes and the bounced checks and overspending.
I'm glad I am out. I could not afford to contest custody and my lawyer advised against it as there was no diagnosis. My XW would never consider seeing a therapist as she despised the profession and ridiculed it. I guess that is common among the disordered as they intuitively know that a counselor might see their disorder.
I was blamed for everything that ever went wrong in the marriage.
Once, after repeatedly leaving her keys in our new car and having it stolen, she tried to blame the theft on my son, her stepson. He was 14 at the time and did not know how to drive. And, he was living across town with my first wife.
The disordered never accept blame for anything. In my 10 years of marriage, I never once got an apology for anything.