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"...I was not a stellar wife - my husband studied all day, I did not clean, cook, satisfy him sexually. Yet he stuck with the relationship. It was always the plan for me to go to medical school, and we made that happen starting last year - he worked long hours as a highly successful corporate attorney, financed my education, our son's childcare, continued not to demand any housekeeping, cooking, looked after our son all weekend so I could have more time to study... he gave, and gave, and gave."

This is what jumped out at me. If sexual satisfaction and domestic support are high on your H's list of emotional needs, I'm surprised HE didn't have an affair! Have you determined what his emotional needs actually ARE? (Read His Needs Her Needs for an in-depth explanation.) Once you've determined that, your job is cut out for you. MEET THOSE NEEDS for him. It's the least you can do for having stepped out on him, when he was busting his hump for you.

That said, have you identified YOUR needs? He may have been piling on his effort ineffectively, killing himself without ever addressing what it is you REALLY want from him. If he'd really been hitting the target, you wouldn't have had an affair. You owe it to both of you to figure out what you need from each other to feel loved and cherished.

This is especially important in light of the fact that your affair has traumatized your H and your marriage. Instead of making hit-or-miss attempts to repair the damage, suggest you get educated about the MB plan to restore marriage, on this site and in Dr. Harley's books on the subject. You both sound like scholars, so this research should be right up your alley.

You will HAVE to amend your schedules to spend a minimum of 15 hours a week, every week, meeting those emotional needs you will have to identify. This is non-negotiable, as is your complete avoidance of ANY contact with your OM. You will have to be fully transparent to your H--give him access to your cell phone, your email and your daily schedule. He doesn't trust you right now, and he shouldn't, but it's your job to prove to him you WILL be trustworthy forever.

I wish you luck as you head down the recovery trail.

Right Here Waiting


Me BS 61
Him FWS 63
Married 40 years
D-Day 6/30/06
Still can't believe it.
6/08 Recovering nicely. Anything is possible!
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Jamesus and RHW, just a quick note of thanks and appreciation before I head to court.

Will respond more in-depth later, simply wanted to say thanks. (One of the things I'm working on: not taking people for granted.)


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Good luck getting through the tough day in court.


Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
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The judge didn't grant the petition. No legal divorce. My husband is hurting even more now. How can I best help him?? This all feels surreal, and I can't predict anything anymore.


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Wow. I don't understand that. I thought a divorce was there for the asking. Seems to be in most states.

This is looking like a BAD thing to you, but I'm not sure it is. As much as he doesn't like it, your BH is now stuck, when he MAY have been planning to leave you flat once a divorce was granted. If so, the temptation will be to withdraw from you in anger and resentment, which would've happened with divorce anyway. But as it is, you have the opportunity to be the wife you want to be, although you're going to have to work it HARD. You'll have the chance, if you use it wisely, to show him that you see things differently now and are making the necessary changes that will allow him to trust and love you again.

I understand that you have been showing him remorse for what you've done. He may still be too hurt to hear you, but would he be willing to read any of the MB material? Love Busters? His Needs Her Needs? Surviving An Affair might be the best place to start. He needs to know that HE isn't defective, that the A was YOUR decision alone. And it would help him recognize the signs you're giving to make it up to him as best you can by changing YOURSELF in ways that you now understand are necessary.

Would he be willing to come here, to the MB boards? They really are slanted toward the plight of the BS. It is they who are most damaged, and need the most help through what is, for them the worst time in their lives. We could help him understand what happened, and how to heal. He might still be overcome with anger and grief and not want to talk to anybody yet. His choice, of course. But let him know there is acceptance and useful information here.

So hard.

Right Here Waiting


Me BS 61
Him FWS 63
Married 40 years
D-Day 6/30/06
Still can't believe it.
6/08 Recovering nicely. Anything is possible!
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Hmm,

Was the divorce filed on the basis of your adultery? I'm just wondering because my state VA grants nearly immediate D in that case.



Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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The reason cited for the divorce was adultery. The judge asked if that was necessary, preferring to keep business private and just call it "irreconcilable differences," but we didn't meet the timeline of separation for that.

The compounding factor for her was that I am currently pregnant. We had a prenatal paternity test performed, it is my H's and not the OM's. The courts, however, do not have jurisdiction over an unborn child, so any child custody arrangements we made for our current son would have to be revisited/repeated for this 2nd child once born. The judge said she didn't want to "bifurcate the system" and have us come back for repeat filings, petitions, etc.

I think she thought she was doing us a favor, maybe thinking that would give our marriage or the children a better chance. However, neither my husband nor I realized quite how important this divorce was until she said 'no.' He really needed this to start believing I am not with him for his money, assets, etc. - to start thinking that maybe I'm with him for *him*. With that in place, he could begin focusing on reconciliation much more.

Also, neither of us can understand why two adults who wish to file for a divorce won't be granted one. My husband did nothing wrong here, and yet he still has to suffer.

I feel toxic. I know I'm not that person, I won't be that person, and I still believe that we can fix things and make them even better - this just makes it that much harder. I don't know where to start, what to do.


PS - To answer the earlier post, we have been reading HNHN, SAA, and we understand what it will take to heal - it's just a question of whether my husband wants to sign on for that. With continued pain, I can't blame him for hesitating. How do I help him??


Me - 30 (FWW)
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B_S,

Ok, you have been given an opportunity. I would recommend that you sit down with your H and have a long talk. I think he doesn't need to hear how you love him or how sorry you are. He needs to hear how your perspectives have changed and why they have changed. It is alright to mention what you have learned here, what you have learned from introspection, what you have learned from any other sources of help.

He needs to know what is changing within you. He needs to know your goals and dreams. You might ask about his.

You don't want to overload him with stuff but you need to make it clear that you can sense his frustration, pain, fear, etc. You will respond to what you sense rather than ignore it.

Someone just earlier made a really important point about your H knowing your needs. Harley's original primus was that often well intentioned people will do their best to be great spouses and fail because they put all of their efforts in meeting needs that the other spouse doesn't have or are of low value to them. Worse even if they get the right need they often try to meet them as they themselves would like them met, not as the spouse needs them met.

This is an issue for both of you as the previous poster pointed out. You want to comfort him, meet his needs etc. You need to know what they are and how to meet them. I will offer you a simple example. Let's say your H likes affection, BUT to him a deep sign of affection is holding hands. You like affection and for you a deep sign of affection is kissing. So knowing he likes affection, you kiss him when you see him. He won't interpret this as a sign of deep affection because you did not hold his hand.

Do you see the point? This stuff is really simple, but it is not easy. People often confuse simple and easy and pay the price for that confusion.

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

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That's really bizarre. The state is forcing you to stay married. Insane.

If I was a BS who was determined to get a divorce, openly stated as much, filed all of the proper paperwork, and was denied by the state, I'd go ahead and live as a single person in every way.

Some idiotic judicial system that won't punish adulterers isn't going to tell me whether I have to be married or not.


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I think the judge is way way out of line, and probably can't actually do this depending on the statute. I think if both of you agree you could file in one of the states where Adultery is grounds for immediate divorce. You H is a lawyer have him find a smart D attorney to give the judge a lesson in the law.



Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
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Grandson 8 months
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Originally Posted by B_S2008
However, neither my husband nor I realized quite how important this divorce was until she said 'no.' He really needed this to start believing I am not with him for his money, assets, etc. - to start thinking that maybe I'm with him for *him*. With that in place, he could begin focusing on reconciliation much more.

Why not offer to do a postnuptial agreement?

I don't know what your assests are, but you could be removed from the accounts and rather than joint accounts or whatever you have, he could be the owner, and you'd be the POD person. Or just list the kids as the beneficieries. It's about 1 phone call and 15 minutes of filling out forms. It can be easily changed back.

I personally wouldn't be comfortable with the latter option, but it is still an option.

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I also believe it is possible for you to file some sort of separation agreement and financial settlement. I'm not very familiar with this but I think that is what people do when they have a waiting period, as in most states. Please just go talk to a good D attorney, they will be happy to take a fee and not have to deal with people sniping at each other. I'm wondering if your H would take it as a positive sign if you went out and took care of this for him. Of course you need to make it clear that you want to be married but are looking out for his wishes.




Me 42 BS
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Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
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Grandson 8 months
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Not so far out of line. The judge’s decision, I mean. This state is a no-fault community property state but by law divorces are not granted when the wife is pregnant. Period. Does not even matter who the father is.

Legal separation is possible, here, to cover abuse cases. But not a divorce. Not until after the child is born.

Personally, I am all for a BS divorcing first and asking questions later. That is what I should have done.

She will do it again. This is who she is.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Originally Posted by Aphelion
She will do it again. This is who she is.

It doesn't have to be. She is capable of changing.



Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
Married 6/95
B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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Originally Posted by CuthbertCalculus
Originally Posted by Aphelion
She will do it again. This is who she is.

It doesn't have to be. She is capable of changing.

Absolutely CC...Thank you for pointing that out...

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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I too have heard of states that won't grant a divorce IF the wife is pregnant. It is viewed as protecting the child.

People do change or are capable of changing, but they have to make that change no one can force them into it.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

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Thanks everyone. A postnup is a possibility, but it can be less enforceable and would require much revisiting/redrafting to soundly meet legal requirements as time went on. I tried researching some online, and it looks like the judge was doing what she thought best for the family and not necessarily was the strongest argument legally. (We're in IL, and as far as I can tell IL doesn't have a law saying no divorce while the wife is pregnant.) Right now H and I are trying to figure out if there's any other way to give him the peace of mind he would have if the divorce had been granted today.

Counterintuitively, not being granted a legal divorce harms our reconciliation prospects. My H needs some relief, some feeling of protection, and without a legal divorce to provide that, we wonder if the next step is physical separation. If that happens, I will keep working on the things I need to fix, showing him the changes I'm making/how I'm changing for the better, practicing Dr. Harley's recovery philosophy/steps, and hoping for the best.

Also, thanks for the words of support regarding change - that's essentially my mantra, that I am not going to be that person and will do whatever it takes to ensure that's not me ever again.

Working through all of this stuff leaves me feeling there's not enough time in the day - maybe later today I'll have a chance to address some of the other points previous posters have brought up. In the meantime, thanks again.


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B_S,

Ok, not getting a divorce is bothering him. I believe you said he is a lawyer right? Why don't you two sit down and discuss this realistically.

You are not getting divorced until the child comes. You are married NOW. You are in school right? He is working.

So why not a truce right now. Why not worry about the marriage per se', but simply discuss what you can do to make him comfortable right now, and he can do to make you comfortable. Why not date during the holiday season, enjoy one another and yourselves.

I know there is stress but you two cannot change what the judge ruled. He will not trust you even if you are divorced. Discuss a budget for you, the household, etc. Divorcing may protect him financially, but in reality if you two remarry he will have the same issues. If you don't remarry he will be paying child support, perhaps spousal support until you are finished with school.

My point, tell him to work hard for himself, but otherwise you would will settle for less money and more him in your life.

I know he is deeply hurt. I know he will NOT forget what has happened. I know he learn to trust you and love you IF you are trustworthy and a lovable person. It takes time, alot of time.

You cannot undo years of treating him badly in a few weeks, but you can undo it in a few years and decades IF you have the desire to do this.

There is so much to say, but it starts with you, new perspectives, new behaviors, and him understanding what is new and why. EVen then it will take a long time.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

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Nonsense. A BS does not need a divorce before they try to recovering their marriage.

Tell him you both need to be adult, individually, for each other, and the kids. That there is no purpose, or good being done by delaying the slow process of healing.

Ask BH if the both of you can use this time wisely.


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Originally Posted by TheRoad
Tell him you both need to be adult,

I would caution you most strongly to not use this phrase.

Telling him he needs to be adult implies he is acting like a child.

I think, for you, it is imperative that you are respectful toward your husband. Your affair was the ultimate disrespect, and he likely feels slighted from the years of his giving and your taking. He is, I'm sure, feeling like you have no respect for him, and he will be hypersensitive to any kind of disrespect on your part.

I hope everything works out for you. I know what it's like to take someone for granted year after year, and I know the remorse that comes from that. You sound sincere to me, and willing to do whatever it takes to make up for what you did. Stay focused, and keep in mind that you CAN change. It will take work to overcome patterns of thought, habits and ingrained attitudes - but it CAN be done.

All the best,


Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
Married 6/95
B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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