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Naaa...it's NEVER the fault of the individual. It's always someone else's fault for their "bad behavior."

A volatile atmosphere was created.

Just like when all those people were trampled to death many years ago at the "Who" concert in Cincinnati OH.

It was a highly charged environment. They wisely decided to stop with festival seating because it was an atmosphere looking for a disaster to happen.

I live less than 2 blocks from a SuperWalmart. A few years ago a shopper's leg was broken during the black Friday insanity.

They don't do it anymore. They are lined up...security is on the premises, and the police are there to insure orderly conduct when "filing" through the doors. A mob scene is now avoided because the managers of this one PREVENT it from happening.

Anytime you get that many people in an area there has to be people maintaining order. It is reckless not to have adequate security.

While those people might have been purposeful in their conduct, there are still times when all it takes is one person to throw it out of control.

I was on a jumbo jet once (with my 6 and 4 year old) and we had to evacuate the plane on the tarmac. I refused to get in that line down the aisle because people were pushing and shoving in an already dangerous fashion. The steward pushed and shoved her way to where I was still seated with my children. She told me that I HAD to evacuate the plane...get in the aisle. I told her that I was NOT going to place my children in that peril. The line wasn't even moving at that time. They were still opening the doors for us to leave and I was not going to have my kids trampled in that mess. We would wait and get at the end of the line.

It wasn't like the plane was on fire or anything. There was a bomb threat...we had to evacuate is all. It wasn't worth that risk to me. If they cared about the kids they would have had them be evacuated FIRST before all the adults went crazy. Nope, I sat right there....kept them safe.

She considered it an emergency situation. Had she MADE me get in that line, and one of my kids been hurt by the mass of people pushing and shoving, darn right...I would have blamed the airline.

All it takes is one person...and other bodies are subjected to that outside force that forces them into motion.

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http://www.northjersey.com/business/news/Door-buster_champ_is_ready.html


Door-buster champ is ready
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
Last updated: Wednesday November 26, 2008, EST 7:42 AM
BY JOAN VERDON
STAFF WRITER
The Wal-Mart store in Secaucus is preparing for Black Friday as if its reputation depends on it.

It does.

Last year, the Secaucus store was the biggest seller on Black Friday of all of the 5,700 Wal-Mart stores around the world. (Black Friday is a big deal at only about 2,500 of those stores — in the U.S. and Puerto Rico.)

Wal-Mart usually never releases store rankings, but a Wal-Mart spokesman confirmed for The Record that last year Secaucus was the Black Friday winner, followed by another New Jersey store, in Kearny, in the No. 3 spot. The Wal-Mart store in Valley Stream, N.Y., ranked No. 2.

The three top stores have a common advantage: They are close to one of the last remaining large U.S. cities with no Wal-Mart stores — New York City. New York City shoppers looking to take advantage of Wal-Mart's Black Friday discounts are likely to head for one of the three stores.

Steven Restivo, Wal-Mart's chief spokesman for New Jersey, said the fact that the Secaucus store reached the No. 1 spot ahead of far larger supercenters is impressive. Supercenters contain full-sized supermarkets, as well as a full-sized discount store.

"It happened for a number of reasons," Restivo said. "Certainly Secaucus is in a densely populated area of northern New Jersey. They're also the closest store to midtown Manhattan, and we don't have any stores in the five boroughs of New York City. But we know New York City customers spend more than $120 million a year at Wal-Mart."

Wal-Mart has tried in the past to open stores in Queens and Staten Island, but plans for both were dropped in the face of intense union, community and political opposition. Wal-Mart executives eventually announced they plan to stay out of New York City, at least for the near future.

The Secaucus Wal-Mart opened in 2004 in the Harmon Meadow shopping complex, which is owned by Hartz Mountain Industries Inc. It is adjacent to a Sam's Club, the warehouse store division of Wal-Mart.

Restivo would not comment on how much revenue the Secaucus store took in on Black Friday last year to reach the top spot, but based on statistics the company has released previously, The Record estimates that number at close to $1 million.

Retail analyst Burt Flickinger III, managing director of the New York consulting firm Strategic Resource Group, said it is realistic to expect that the Secaucus Wal-Mart could do between $500,000 and $1 million on Black Friday this year. He believes sales could be lower this year because spending on consumer electronics — usually a big driver of Black Friday results — is expected to be weak. In order to match last year's success, Flickinger said, the Secaucus store "really needs to do exceptionally well in consumer electronics and apparel, two areas that are down this year."

Flickinger said it isn't surprising the Secaucus and Kearny stores were top Black Friday performers because North Jersey, unlike other parts of the country, isn't "site saturated" with Wal-Mart stores. "Where Wal-Mart has lower store saturation its stores tend to outperform initially, and then as Wal-Mart site-saturates markets, then the stores go from overperforming, to performing modestly, to underperforming," he said.

Wal-Mart has a store under construction within a few miles of the Secaucus and Kearny stores, off Tonnelle Boulevard in North Bergen. That store will be Wal-Mart's first supercenter in North Jersey.

At the Secaucus store on Black Friday, nearly all of the 580 employees will be working one of the nine-hour shifts that begin at 4 a.m. that day.

Last year, more than 4,000 shoppers lined up overnight for the 5 a.m. opening. Store employees said they are expecting the same number, or more this year, drawn by door-buster specials including a 50-inch high-definition TV for $788 and a Garmin navigation device for $97.

Wal-Mart employees call the Black Friday early-bird sales "the blitz," and Secaucus manager Tracy Ferschweiler had a blitz-planning meeting with 22 supervisors Monday afternoon. "This is going to be a really, really big Black Friday for us," Ferschweiler said, as he outlined the plans to serve coffee and cookies to the waiting shoppers, and to have three portable toilets stationed in the parking lot.

One supervisor suggested one or two store employees be assigned to serve as "line savers" for people who need someone to hold their spot while they use the toilets. "That would be a great service," Ferschweiler responded. "Let's do it. Let's offer line savers between 1 and 5 a.m."

At the meeting, Ferschweiler described how the store will handle the high demand for the door-buster deals. When the doors open at 5 a.m., shoppers will be directed to color-coded stations where they will get a ticket for the TV set or other sought-after item. After they present the ticket at the cash register and pay for the item, they then will pick it up at two pickup stations in the store, where the goods will be carefully monitored.

The system was put in place, Ferschweiler said, to prevent shoppers from taking the door-buster specials without paying during the 5 a.m. frenzy.

"Last year they had to stop letting people in the building because it was so full. Imagine a 162,000-square-foot building at capacity — standing room only. You cannot really monitor what's coming in and out of the building," he said. "This way ensures that everything's paid for, and it really helps the customer who doesn't want to lug these items around."



ba109: Corporate greed, competition, $$$$, status. Buzz words like "doorbusters" and "the blitz". They got what they asked for. Customers busted the doors down and blitzed the store. Walmart played it to perfection.

ETA: Valley Stream Walmart wanted that trophy. They wanted to be Number 1 in the world.



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Buzz words like "doorbusters" and "the blitz".

All set in motion with words like these.

The atmosphere was created and actually encouraged.

Intent is clear by that article.

I sure hope that the worker who died in the name of commercialism didn't die in vain.

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"Walmart is protected from a direct lawsuit in this case by the New York State Workers' Compensation Law. Mr. Damour's family will receive a measly $6,000 burial allowance under the law."

http://www.workerscompensation.com/...art_criminally_responsible_for_quot.html

I don't know if he will even receive that much. If I read correctly, he was from a temp agency, so he was not even a direct employee of Walmart.


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http://www.travelindustrywire.com/article34567.html

The Power of Momentum in Action

Wal-Mart and Toyota are two apparently dissimilar firms. They operate in two different industries and come from different countries and cultures. But they are two of the world's 15 richest companies, and each is number one in its own industry. More importantly, both got there by creating the conditions needed for the momentum effect to emerge. Although one has lost its momentum, the other is still in full swing.

Wal-Mart:

Sam Walton launched his company with a focus on customers. What is remarkable is the way that this customer focus created exceptional growth and continued to power Wal-Mart for many years after it had become a major industry force. Whatever its current challenges -- and there are many -- for the better part of a generation Wal-Mart was a momentum-powered firm.

Sam Walton knew about retail, but his main asset was the fact that he knew about customers. His strength was this: He liked to listen to them and observe them, and he understood their needs. When he started out, he related deeply to a very specific kind of customer -- people like him, people from the United States' rural South.

Walton's customer orientation made him aware of the potential of this region's smaller towns. In 1962, when Wal-Mart was launched, the standard wisdom held that large retail operations could not survive in towns with fewer than 100,000 residents. But Walton decided that this was where opportunity lay, and he deliberately opened stores only in small towns where there was no large-scale competition.

Walton understood that these customers would value his offering, that they would appreciate being able to shop locally, rather than making long journeys to larger towns. He also realized that these shoppers were worth more than they seemed. Although their wallets weren't as full as those of people in large cities, Wal-Mart was able to command a higher share of their spending because there was no competition. The combination of cheaper premises, lower labor costs [and] no competition ... meant that Walton's customers were extremely profitable to service.

This winning combination gave Wal-Mart the traction it needed to start building momentum. As the firm mushroomed, it continued to improve all aspects of its operation, from customer service to supply chain and supplier relationships. Eventually, Wal-Mart was able to glean economies of scale in purchasing to achieve its mantra of "Every Day Low Price" (EDLP) and gain further momentum.

EDLP runs counter to traditional retail promotions that lure customers into stores, hoping that they'll also end up buying more expensive products. The famous expression to describe retail strategy in the days before Wal-Mart was "an island of losses in an ocean of profits." It was really an island of bait in an ocean of arrogance and customer abuse. It was akin to duck hunting -- attracting customers the same way hunters attracted wild ducks with decoys.

With EDLP, Wal-Mart turned the relationship with customers upside down. It moved from duck hunting to a vibrant partnership. Wal-Mart's competitors, to their discomfort, failed to understand that, although EDLP was jargon on the surface, it expressed a strong, hidden emotional value deeply appreciated by customers: trust. This customer trust powered the company's growth for decades.

Unfortunately, momentum doesn't look after itself. There is a perception that Wal-Mart slowly began to pay less attention to many of the key drivers of its success -- respect for employees, local communities, and suppliers -- and began to lose its momentum as a result. Momentum is dynamic: Unless it is constantly nurtured, it will ebb away. However, the reward for that unstinting attention can be immense -- it can make you number one in the world.
...
Momentum leaders are not lucky -- they are smart. They have discovered the source of momentum and, with it, the beginnings of a smarter way to exceptional growth. Managers often talk about "riding the wave." Momentum leaders aren't that passive. They live by this motto: First build your wave, then ride it.

ba109: Walmart knows exactly what they are doing. They even leaked their black friday deals two weeks in advance.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/news/companies/walmart_blackfridayad/?postversion=2007111310




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So true.

I was thinking about the "no competition" comments in the article. Yeah, the little mom & pop stores in small towns are no competition. I remember when they opened here and several family owned stores could not compete. It was really sad because some of the stores had been around for decades--clothing, furniture, etc. The grocery store is still around, though.

When WM first built here the grocery store moved into the shopping center close to it. There wasn't much in the way of groceries at WM so they thought it was a good move.

Last year they built the "Super" WM. A lot of people objected and delayed the ground-breaking but ultimately WM barged on in with it.

The family-owned grocery store moved back into the heart of the town and they get a lot of traffic there. They had to scale down, though. This is their former location and it's a lot smaller. I like to get my groceries there or in Houston when I'm in town. Super WM is ridiculously huge and when you need one little thing it takes forever to go in there to find it.

I wish I could avoid it completely. I used to work there some years ago and my DIL worked there recently.

It's still the same as far as the way employees are treated.

And vendors? Don't even get me started!

WM has a policy for their vendors if they want to keep selling their merchandise at WM.

I'll use the pickle company as an example. Their pickles sold in big jars (2 quarts or so) for $3.99. WM wanted to keep the pickles at $2.99 so when costs went up for the vendor, they were forced to make changes so that they could still sell their pickles. Or WM wouldn't sell ANY of their other merchandise.

I have noticed this with water filters. The company kept changing them and taking away the little things, like the filter monitor on top of the filter to help indicate when it needed to be changed out. In lieu of the filter monitor they included stickers to stick on the side of your pitcher. Then they changed the filter design and the size, too. I don't know what else they are going to be able to change to keep their cost down so they can keep selling their merchandise at WM.

It's terrible. Not only that--most of the stuff from WM is made in China. What's even made in the USA anymore? I remember the "Made in the USA" campaign they started when I still worked there.

Humorous, though, is what happened when WM tried to open in China for the first time and most of what they had was the same junk they have here. The Chinese didn't like it so they had to revamp.

I stay away from WM as much as possible, even if it means paying a little extra for that bottle of shampoo or whatever at another store. It's really hard for people in this little town NOT to shop at WM when they can't afford to drive an hour away to Houston or they don't have transportation to do so. WM is shooting fish in a barrel here.

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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Quote
Buzz words like "doorbusters" and "the blitz".

All set in motion with words like these.

The atmosphere was created and actually encouraged.

Intent is clear by that article.

I sure hope that the worker who died in the name of commercialism didn't die in vain.

committed

what a bunch of baloney...the local supermarket here uses the term "doorbuster." That doesn't mean come and stampede.

Every sales person has used the term blitz at one time or another...that does not mean murder.

You people really are clueless. The criminals here are the ones that stampeded. It doesn't take one as someone suggested. It takes many tolerating and participating to create that.

Walmarts job is to attract customers and makes sales...that is their purpose. The people that come to their store should act in an orderly fashion...but they put getting a TV ahead of common decency. And you people are allowing the true criminals here to pass the buck.

Pathetic.

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Buzz words like "doorbusters" and "the blitz". They got what they asked for. Customers busted the doors down and blitzed the store.

A local car dealer here says they are blowing up prices...I guess they would get what they asked for if people show up with bombs strapped to their chests.

Ludicrous.

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medc,

It would be nice if you would post something worth reading. It is afterall your thread.

So far all you've done is hurl insults or sling mud at opinions that differ from your own. I have not insulted you or ridiculed your opinion.

I have no problem with punishing someone that diliberately and purposefully plowed someone down and proceded to kill that person. I don't think that happened. An investigation of the incident will hopefully tell.

Enjoy your thread.



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oh, really...so what happened? Nice people just decided to knock a door off its hinges and stampede into a store....please.

you have yet to post anything about this worth reading.

there was a crime committed here. There is NO doubt about that. The police are reviewing the store footage and attempting to identify people to charge with this murder.

I'm sure they are ****edit****


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Let's wind down the rhetoric folks or this thread will be locked.

Trading insults and calling people clueless is not OK.


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Walmarts job is to attract customers and makes sales...that is their purpose. The people that come to their store should act in an orderly fashion...but they put getting a TV ahead of common decency. And you people are allowing the true criminals here to pass the buck.

Walmart's job is to make money...and to make their stockholders happy. We all know who the largest stockholders are.

When you get thousands of people together...there is no way to insure "orderly" unless you have trained people there to insure it.

It was a free for all.

Common sense would tell you that some kind of method to the madness is needed.

I was the person that said it could be started by one person. All a stampede needs is one person to shove. It has a domino effect...especially in a crowd of that size.

The walmart here has had no problems since THEY implemented a plan to control the crowds.

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Originally Posted by medc
oh, really...so what happened? Nice people just decided to knock a door off its hinges and stampede into a store....please.

you have yet to post anything about this worth reading.

there was a crime committed here. There is NO doubt about that. The police are reviewing the store footage and attempting to identify people to charge with this murder.

I'm sure they are ****edit****

Murder?

Please.

They won't be able to charge anyone with murder. Involuntary manslaughter is the most that they will be able to do, if that.

And reckless endangerment for the victims that lived.

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a murder is an illegal killing. This was a murder. Their ability to charge someone with murder does not change the fact that this was an illegal killing.

the charges you mentioned are most likely...but that doesn't change what happened here.

and the idea that one person could start this domino effect is dead wrong.

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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
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Walmarts job is to attract customers and makes sales...that is their purpose. The people that come to their store should act in an orderly fashion...but they put getting a TV ahead of common decency. And you people are allowing the true criminals here to pass the buck.

Walmart's job is to make money...and to make their stockholders happy. We all know who the largest stockholders are.


It is the "job" of ANY company, or individual for that matter, to "make money." That is how anyone, individual or company, AFFORDS to buy anything or to provide any service and are NOT on the "government dole."

And no, I don't know who the largest stockholders are, nor do I care. People trade their cash for stock in the hope of seeing their investment go "up." But ALL investing also involves RISK of losing the entire investment, just like Farmers risk losing everything every time they invest in buying seed in the hope that the seeds will grow into "saleable" products and they can make back their initial investment, pay for maintaining the "farm" and the workers of the farm, AND have some "profit left over after all the expenses (including TAXES that are confiscated by the 'do nothing to earn it' government) are paid.

Yep, stockholders are "bad people too."




Originally Posted by committedandlovi
When you get thousands of people together...there is no way to insure "orderly" unless you have trained people there to insure it.

It was a free for all.

Common sense would tell you that some kind of method to the madness is needed.

I was the person that said it could be started by one person. All a stampede needs is one person to shove. It has a domino effect...especially in a crowd of that size.

Okay, so now people are mindless cattle, "provoked" to a mindless stampede in a "Follow the Leader" sort of way.

Human beings do NOT have a mind and are NOT able to THINK about their actions and CHOOSE how to behave or not behave?

Now WHO are these "trained people" that you envision who could "control" a mindless mob bent on getting what each individual IN that mob thinks they want or have a "right" to getting, no matter who "gets in their way?"

Maybe the Police? Armed guards? WHO is going to stand in front of a mob that is stampeding and get them to "stop" or "turn away" in another direction?



Originally Posted by committedandlovi
The walmart here has had no problems since THEY implemented a plan to control the crowds.

committed

Okay. Perhaps the model used at your local WalMart store would be effective everywhere. That might make some sense since no other WalMart store seems to have had someone trampled to death, so there "must" be some store managed "crowd control" plan that works. Maybe the manager of that particular store didn't follow the company plan? Or maybe the "mob" at that store was not going to follow ANY plan if it "got in the way" of their "getting what they wanted?"

And I have to wonder, if we apply the same logic, what should any given marriage DO to prevent each spouse from doing whatever they want to do no matter who gets hurt in the process, just so long as the individual "gets what they think they need?"

But it's probably the fault of the Faithful Spouse, even in that instance, for not taking the steps necessary to prevent their spouse from exercising their "free will right" to do whatever they want to do and trample on the marriage.

Ya, it's always "someone else's fault." We've heard THAT logic before, starting with excuses like "the devil MADE me do it."

Somehow the picture of the "wild West" keeps coming to mind with the Sheriff the only person standing between the mob and the prisoner they want to "get and string up" so that they will feel "justice has been served." Nevermind the "Rule of Law" or that THEY could be be "object" of mob rule themselves at some point in time. But the Sheriff has a gun and HE knows that even that can't stop a "determined mob." All he can do is tell the mob that SOME of them will also die as he defends the jail (store) from their craziness and illogic.

Maybe we should just arm all the WalMart employees with Cattle Prods to help "direct the herd." Somehow I don't think that a little shock would deter the mob much, though, just so long as "someone else" got the shock and they could keep on stampeding to get what they so desperately want.

Have you ever seen pictures of armed police officers, dressed in complete riot gear, trying to stand off a "determined mob?" Very effective all the time, don't you think? Maybe if we just station water cannons by the entrances to the stores to "cool of the heated crowd" we could "deter the mob from their self-appointed task" of getting what they want before anyone else might get the object of their desire?"

Besides, even if they (those charged with protecting the store, the employees, AND the people of the mob themselves) felt their lives were threatened, all they have to look forward to is jail time for themselves if they DO their job. Just look at the two border patrol officers in Texas who are "doing a lot of time" for shooting a drug smuggler in the [censored]."

We don't want "personal responsibility" so we want to "farm it out" to "someone else." THEN we want to toss their butts in jail IF they do what we TOLD THEM TO DO.

Yep, the management of WalMart is responsible for providing a "land of opportunity" for the masses. But "protect" the store so that all WILL have an opportunity? Not enough "Border Guards" in the nation for that it would seem.


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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Quote
Buzz words like "doorbusters" and "the blitz".

All set in motion with words like these.

The atmosphere was created and actually encouraged.

Intent is clear by that article.

I sure hope that the worker who died in the name of commercialism didn't die in vain.

committed

Yep...I hope those poor victims who trampled the employee to death can somehow find a way to cope with being forced to kill.

I also hope that all of the active wayward spouses out there can find a way to cope with being forced into the groin of another by a bad, bad betrayed spouse.


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What is an "invitee"?

From Wikipedia:

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In the law of torts, an invitee is a person who is invited to land by the possessor of the land as a member of the public, or one who's invited to the land for the purpose of business dealings with the possessor of the land. The status of a visitor as an invitee (as opposed to a trespasser or a licensee) defines the legal rights of the visitor if they are injured due to the negligence of the property owner.

The property owner has a duty to make the property safe for the invitee, which includes conducting a reasonable inspection of the premises to uncover hidden dangers. The property owner also has a duty to warn the invitee of hazardous conditions that cannot be fixed. Furthermore, property owners assume a duty to rescue an invitee who falls into peril while visiting the property. If an independent contractor hired by the landowner injures an invitee (intentionally or through negligence), the owner can be held vicariously liable. This represents the broadest duty of care owed to any class of visitors to the property.

An invitee is only an invitee within the scope of permission granted by the landowner. Thus, if he is invited to the living room as a house guest and is injured snooping around in the landowner's bedroom, he does not have invitee status in that area.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invitee"


Failing to provide security to manage the crowd they invited resulted in unsafe foreseeable conditions which constitutes negligence on the part of the property owner (Walmart).

Walmart is solely responsible. As any property owner would be for creating an unsafe condition on it's property.

Were injuries and even death foreseeable. I would estimate that yes...they were.

Here's a link from 2005 which links to several news stories about injuries at Walmart on Black Fridays in the past. I'm certain it's not an exhaustive complete list but just a taste of what Walmart has experienced in the past and neglected to recognize as a serious problem for their guests.
Walmart history of Black Friday injuries

Here's another reason Walmart is responsible...it's employee incited the crowd by doing the following:

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Augustine, 26, said the melee began right after a WalMart employee told the crowd the store would open early. The employee then said it was a joke. This angered the crowd, leading to people trying to rush the store, Augustine said.

Newsday story


Someone above mentioned that if someone, say a terrorist, had brought a bomb and detonated it at the entry point killing hundreds of said shoppers that it would be ridiculous to hold Walmart responsible and I agree as such risk wouldn't be "foreseeable" and thus, not negligence (absent specific warnings or threats).

Singling out and charging any specific customer that can be identified as an instigator of the mob mentality is OK by me too (this includes the Joking Walmart employee) but the ultimate responsibility, IMO, rests with Walmart, it's management and executives. Charge the CEO and Store Manager with negligent homicide (even if they are later acquitted or charges are dropped) and see if this event EVER happens at a major retailer again.

I see that legislatures are now getting involved and considering laws to protect their citizenry. Most are considering mandating security. I tend to favor a law requiring that advertised sale prices need to be made available to shoppers for at least one business day and that if they run out of an item they must offer "rain check" certificates to permit customers to return and get their item for said price at a later date.

Such law won't likely be necessary if the legal system is allowed to have it's way with Walmart by imposing a stiff punitive penalty against them for their gross negligence in this case which would make the future cost of protecting their invitee/guests/customers economical in comparison. This is how the legal system is supposed to work...to protect employees and patrons from profit driven Companies that ignore risk for the sake of the almighty dollar.

On another note...I don't have any idea why Walmart employees have failed to unionize yet. This event likely wouldn't have happened if a couple of 6' 3" union guys in union jackets were standing outside directing the unruly customers. IMO...it's not coincidental that this event occurred at a Walmart...they've been abusing their workforce for years now. It was only a matter of time. This is NOT Sam Walton's company anymore.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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SCARY!

And guns ablazing in Toys R Us...people are getting whacked out.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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The blame lies entirely on the money grubbers who made this whole thing happen.....the shoppers.

I guess a $788 flat screen is what Christmas is all about?!

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Originally Posted by iam
The blame lies entirely on the money grubbers who made this whole thing happen.....the shoppers.

I guess a $788 flat screen is what Christmas is all about?!

The real shame is that the damn thing will probably be $728, regular price, before the end of January.


Divorced
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