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#2171005 12/08/08 12:34 PM
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First...I am overwhelmed from lurking on this site, at the enormous amount of infidelity out there, it is the saddest thought to think that so many people are being torn apart inside because of S/SO lack of just plain selfishness and disrespect for their own being, man I could go and on with that one
Second...it blows my mind that there are so many caring people on this site to support and advise injured BS's...KUDOS to you all !!!

So I am finally here now too, I had hoped my situation would have resolved from the insight I gained reading but guess what....

D-day first part Sept08, found some sweetheart text messages. Started 6 years ago when H and OW were reunited after 25yrs at a common gathering (that I did not attend with him), immediately after they were exchanging letters, B cards, Xmas cards and phone calls which have escalated to the present. OW lives 7 hrs away so I know there was so physical contact up until ~2yrs ago. H claims he has seen her twice in 2 yrs, they are 'friends', 'glorified penpals' to be exact. Not to worry right.

So after huge confrontation and WWlll for about 3days, I got us into MC, found this site, and started Plan A (because I'm not ****ing stupid! )

Here is where I am at
My spirit is drowning waiting for him to come clean and show some overwhelming emotion about all of this. I really don't want to do Plan B, but the despair that I have been feeling is hindering Plan A. I am not prepared to take meds so I don't have these days of doom and frustration.

I need advice, I need some insight.

We have 2 kids, 17 & 19 yrs. old

Thanks

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First I am so sorry you are here.It sucks. but I am sure a lot of the veterans will have some good advice.

If you can try your hardest to do a Plan A. It will leave him with good thoughts of coming home if you plan B. Plan A is very hard. I only found MB after 4 1/2 mos. so I didnt start plan A right away so I had a lot of time to get out my anger, wait for him to come clean and show emotion.

I just want you to be prepared that that may not happen for a long time. because i can tell you firsthand that my husband saw me have a breakdown, try to commit suicide and it did no good he still is with OW. luckily I got a plan A in before he moved out in April. Even if you can only do a short Plan A it will help. Plan B i found so much easier (not easy) because you take yourself out of the situation. You dont have to deal with all the horrible and unbelievable things that WS' usu. say to you.

And be prepared to find out that a lot more happened than u think betw. them.

and keep posting on MB for support there are some wonderful caring people here. grin


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Thank you for taking the time to reply.
just one post and you have made me feel a bit better, that this whole thing might get better, this is also a better day for, mindset and all

I read something from Mark, I think it was from Mark, that the 'rising of the fog' can take as long as the affair itself
that is actually what shot me down since i don't think i can deal with all of this for 6 yrs

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Vittoria,

Firstly, is he still pen-paling her?

If the contact is still going on, and they are "just friends" then he either does not get it, or he is getting it and doesn't care.

If he refuses to end the contact then it's plan A (which you can't do)or plan B which could force him to make a decision.

IMHO

kirk


CORDUROY PILLOWS ARE MAKING HEADLINES!!
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I think Plan b is supposed to help them come out of the fog. because he has no communication with you so it kind of forces him out of the fog. but that is not what Plan b is for it is to preserve the love you still have for him. Because most WS say and do the most unbelievable things. So out of character to what the spouse used to be. You know fog-babble.

My husband also had a two year physical affair and five years he worked with her before that. So I guess we just hang in there until they snap out of it, Affair breaks up, or we are just done. I dont know how much longer I can even take plan B but I think MB says no more than two years. Mine has been 8 mos. but I am starting to accidently hear of cracks in his affair. Hopefully its crumbling. but i wont hold my hope very high.


Last edited by stillhere8126; 12/08/08 01:36 PM.

BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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had to exit quickly....H came home for lunch

krusht
to answer your ? ...the last letter that i found was from 2005 and i could tell that they had not been together but she was always probing to hear from him more, asking about our relationship and whining about hers...she sowed alot of seeds if you know what i mean
H destroyed the most recent cards and or letters after i found another damaging piece of evidence late sept. H said he just wanted them all gone but insisted they were innocent
H left 2 messages with OW the night i confronted him, sent a text to contact him shorty after that
nothing concrete since

NC letter was written 1 month D-day which H said he had no problem with but never 'got around' to doing it, although i had asked for it sooner, the MC pushed him to do this and i feel that is why it got done
exposure was done within 2 weeks but only to some friends, i do wish now i had included his family ( really really hard to do, i felt like such a loser )

there have been some unusual things i've picked up on lately that makes my gut feel that he has contacted her via mail which i cannot monitor, i almost think he has a secret PO box

H says he has had no contact
not sure if paranoia is part of this process i'm in












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can you do a keylogger on his computer and a voice activated recorder in his vehicle? i also am appalled at the numbers on affairs. and to think only a small number make it here...


Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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Vittoria,

Paranoia = "unusual things i've picked up on lately that makes my gut feel"

Same thing.

Is the pen pal married? Did your exposure extend to her? If she was whining about her relationship, she must be in one.

I take it your husband is not remorseful and just going through the MC motions to smooth things over?

Did you see the NC letter, approve it and MAIL it yourself?

He never told you about the pen pal, until you discovered her?

redflag redflag redflag ""H destroyed the most recent cards and or letters after i found another damaging piece of evidence late sept. H said he just wanted them all gone but insisted they were innocent"" redflag redflag redflag

The others here in the halls of MB will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Plan B is not effective when you still live together.

May I suggest intensifying the Plan A, but also bring in the big stick part of it also, i.e. the carrot and the stick.

SNOOP and maybe even hire a Private Investigator. You may want to find out more about the OW to expose on that end too.

IMHO

kirk


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StillH

i find it hard to ignore the babble and not respond to it, i'm more of a 'straight shooter' and this gets me 2 steps back lately
Plan A was easier a month ago i seemed to be able to control my mouth and thoughts, now it seems i get frustrated more easily

when H came in for lunch a while ago and we talked about this 'stuff' i had to go into another room and i literally held my lips shut tight with my fingers to shut myself up

i know in Plan A you are not suppose to talk A,M, or R , this is what is dragging me down, i'm trying to see if H has made the progress i have and when he fails the test i'm heartbroken

i've read why Plan A cannot go on too long, protection of self and saving love units for recovery, i soooooo understand this now, not when i read it though
i don't know if i am at the point of Plan B or need encouragement to cont Plan A since it has only been ~3months

H behavior has always been and still is, affectionate which confuses the heck out of me
i am trying to help him so much but he just doesn't get it
we went away for a couple of days in oct. and in the car i read to him about EN and LB etc and i felt like 'this is great' he was totally accepting of it all
but i also know you are not supposed to try to educate them, i find that hard, i'm looking for quick fix aren't i?


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to answer all your questions
keylogger in place but nothing is showing up...we only have one comp for family

have not felt need for a recorder since i monitor phone bills and his phone

OW-contacted her XH of 2 or 3 yrs (he is aware of their friendship and has met my H) and asked what his impression of their relationship is....he said "oh it's good, they have a real good relationship but i have not been around for awhile" they are apparently attempting reconciliation

H destroying recent cards/letters...i didn't believe him for one second what he said about that, i told him he just confirmed more guilt

NC was written by me guided from SAA, he rewrote it and i mailed it personally
H had been assuring me that if he had all of the letters that he had sent for me to see that it would be clear that this was all innocent so in the NC it was asked that she return all correspondence and pics of his family that he said he had sent her (isn't that just the sweetest thing, thinking of us...PUKE! )
nothing has arrived and i believe he followed up with the NC, a DON'T SEND ANYTHING letter

i don't intend to do Plan B while still here, that would be a disaster i know

PI...would do me no good at this time, i know where he is most of the time and she is far away, i need to save $$$ at this point if it comes to my moving out

where can i read about 'carrots and sticks' ???
btw thank you so much for your thoughts and advice, it verifies some of my thinking





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another question
i don't think my H has gone thru withdrawl, livid at first then once Plan A started he was great...as long as we didn't talk about 'it'

so i wasn't in his head to read his thoughts and really haven't seen signs of depression
does this mean he has broke NC or could i have missed it???

i did find out what 'carrot and stick' meant, will hold off Plan B and use the C&S thing for a while longer



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.

May I suggest intensifying the Plan A, but also bring in the big stick part of it also, i.e. the carrot and the stick. (by Krusht)



i understand intensifying Plan A, what would a 'big stick' part be
could anyone give me an example?

although WH says there has been NC, he does not seem to understand a relationship of this length is at greater risk for continuing, is my thinking on this correct?

Last edited by Vittoria; 12/09/08 09:45 AM.

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Read your posts last night and have them on my mind. I don't have much time to post but here goes:

It sounds like you are not sure if there is contact between them right now.

I read that you are trying Plan A. But you mention that Plan A means something like act nice. Are you also reminding him in various ways that the deceit of this affair and violation of your relationship hurt you greatly? That is not a lovebuster. There are times when explaining to him how violated you feel are neccesary.

Since it appears that there was a huge EA component of this A where he used the US mail, you are having a hard time assuring that there is truly NC.

That is why I say you need to set up a polygraph for your H.

I don't see how you will ever have peace that this long term EA has truly ended.

Your sitch is my nightmare. My H's EA was short term because I got wind of it very early. But it took my discovery of it to get him to see the sized of the betrayal and the danger of his activities.

It is hard to think that such a long term EA was not a PA. THat is another reason you need the polygraph. You need to know what you are dealing with and you need to know the truth to recover.


Lake
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Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
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Thank you for post laker53

H denies that it was ever PA, only saw her 2x in 3 yrs but I believe it was an EA that turned PA sometime in the past few yrs.

Believe me the length of this A is extremely difficult
Also hard to swallow that I was so blind during these years...looking back I do see some signs but it just never entered my mind that he could or would do this
But I know that I am not the only one in this situation who was blindsided, hindsight right

Anyway... where would you go for a polygraph ???
H said he would take one but it was said sarcastically shortly after
D-day you know " What do want me to DO, get a POLYGRAPH ?????????"

Would looooove to tell him he actually has an appt. with one!

Something really infuriated me the other day
I found a 5 digit # in his wallet that had not been there before and since I suspect he has a secret mailbox I went to the post office. I didn't see that # section on the boxes but there was a series before and a series after... so where was the series I was looking for? (thought maybe there was another section hidden in the back) I asked the woman in the depot if this was a post box #, didn't ask for a name, height, weight or medical background and I was rudely told "We can't give that kind of information out, that is private"

I am so sick of all this privacy crap.

Thanks






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I have read of people on this forum arranging for a polygraph for their WS pretty regularly recently. Have you tried a yellow page web search, or the local phone book?

How about the local police station or a detective? They might be able to tell you of someone.

Set up a list of questions you want answered. I have read on this forum that many WS or F?WS go along with the polygraph and then at the last minute, as they are getting out of the car, fess up with some small truth that they had withheld. But BS are advised to continue with the polygraph test.

I just get the feeling that you need to know more about this EA or PA. He has been very secretive by trashing all the letters. Since it was very long term for an EA, it could be difficult for him to truly stop the correspondence. He could be covincing himself that she needs him and that he would be letting her down if he did not continue to "support" her.

I really encourage you to go for the polygraph. It could help you get through this rough period and help you figure out if you are currently in recovery, ie no contact or not.

How would he be paying for a PO box? Does he have a checking account? Exactly how much money is a PO box and how often is a payment due for it? That might help you look for the money trail. But I would go the polygraph route if I were you.


Lake
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I have a friend who is a cop, it never occurred to me to ask him...duh me
I just left a message with him about that...thank you

When you mentioned the part about him 'convincing himself that she needs him and that he would be letting her down if he did not continue to support her' that sounds like a reason that he would have in his head.
The early letters from her were very 'needy' so to speak and always so appreciative of his support. In general my H has a big heart so I can totally see this.

I've looked at credit card statements and cancelled checks but have not seen anything to indicate payment for a mailbox, but he has on occasion gotten cash (couple hundred bucks) from his credit card. I don't know, I just don't know if maybe I am looking for him to fail more than what he already has.
Will call the post office today and ask about renting a box and payment methods.

Thank you again you have given me more food for thought.

I must have more patience, I must have more patience, I must have more patience.
I can do this, I can do this, I can do this.


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You CAN do this!!! pray

Keep us updated.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

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So can you. So can you. So can you.

thanks


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Well you did a poor exposure when you found out about the affair -- I'm NOT knocking you, I don't think you even knew about MB yet so of course you wouldn't know to expose or how to do an effective one -- I'm just making an observation that it could have been better.

So it seems to me that you really need to find out if the affair is ongoing. A polygraph is an EXCELLENT way to find that out - especially since the affair was conducted mostly via postal mail. You can also find out if it was ever physical (and I'd be surprised if it wasn't, as long as it went on).

IF you find out the affair is ongoing, you need to do an immediate global nuclear exposure:
OW's H
H's parents
Your parents
Your children
And anyone else that has influence over your husband's moral and ethical behavior - such as a priest or close friend that you know to be pro-marriage.

I think you should also get a GPS and put it on his car - get one that tracks his movements and then you can see if/when he goes to the post office. Keep in mind that he may not be using the local PO, he may be using a different one.

Secondly I think you need to examine your interactions with your husband for Love Busters and eliminate those.

H destroying recent cards/letters...i didn't believe him for one second what he said about that, i told him he just confirmed more guilt - this looks like a big fat DJ to me.

I found this bit that you wrote confusing:
Quote
when H came in for lunch a while ago and we talked about this 'stuff' i had to go into another room and i literally held my lips shut tight with my fingers to shut myself up

i know in Plan A you are not suppose to talk A,M, or R
Why are you talking about this 'stuff' if you konw you're not supposed to bring up the A, M, or R?

Here's the deal: if the affair is ongoing, then YOU (the BS) don't try to talk relationships because that is a HUGE turn-off for a wayward. But once the affair is over, then you HAVE to talk about it. Figure out what caused it, figure out how to prevent it in the future. Get it all out in the open so it's no longer a boogey-man hiding under the bed and scaring you all the time.

So if he's bringing up the marriage, the affair, and recovery, then by all means listen to him and hear what he has to say. If you think he's in the affair then focus on meeting his ENs, eliminating LBs, and finding out for sure about the affair so you can expose if necessary.

It also seems to me that you're focusing too much on your husband and trying to make him do things your way. You can only control yourself. You need to learn to let go of this desire to control his behavior, as it will hurt your recovery and also the relationship that follows.
i'm trying to see if H has made the progress i have and when he fails the test i'm heartbroken
Leave his progress up to him. You work on your own progress.

This is confusing to me:
in the NC it was asked that she return all correspondence and pics of his family that he said he had sent her ... nothing has arrived and i believe he followed up with the NC, a DON'T SEND ANYTHING letter
Why were letters being sent after NC had been requested? I totally don't get that.

The early letters from her were very 'needy' so to speak and always so appreciative of his support. In general my H has a big heart so I can totally see this.
It's not a big heart, it's a big EN for admiration. How frequently do you admire your H, and in what ways? I would step up the effort considerably. Also think about your H's other top ENs and how you're meeting them.

In summary, I think you're down to:
1 - find out if the A is ongoing and if so EXPOSE
2 - meet his ENs (do you know what they are?)
3 - eliminate LBs
4 - focus on changing yourself, not on his changes

When you know a little better what is really going on, then you can set boundaries, expose, Plan B, or whatever - but for now you need to hunker down with the list above and find out what's going on with your H and OW, if anything.



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saw your post as I was heading out the door and had no time to reply but this was a good thing b/c I had a chance to think about some of your observations

I agree that I did a really lousy job of exposure, I have figured that about for the last month. I now understand the 'nuclear bomb' part. I think it would have crushed my WH if any of his family knew, for that reason it would have been more effective.
Two good friends of his that I told spoke with him but he fluffed them off, making it out to be less than what it was. 6 other friends know and my sister and BIL.
Would advise anyone to do this the way it should be done.
I was so scared and felt foolish.

As far as the polygraph, cop friend not able to help me.
I left a message with a PI this aft. and waiting for him to call back.

I'm not sure about a GPS, he tinkers with the vehicles so he may find it, and doesn't always take the same one, I mean our vehicles are not designated 'his' and 'hers'.
Plus if you park downtown there are many places besides the PO that you can go
I need one implanted under his skin!

OK the PI just called back with a price for the polygraph..$1100 or $1000 utt, the tech is certified, does video pre and post polygraph interviews etc. but I just about **** my pants !!!, I had no idea it would be that much.
If this is the only alternative I will do it but it would have to for sure wait until after Christmas. Plus there is a waiting list of 2 wks so that puts us at Dec. 25th...no thank you
Any other suggestions???

Moving forth, what you said about our interactions made so much sense. I wasn't sticking to the plan as well as I should have b/c I didn't really understand why you shouldn't talk about these things in Plan A. I just knew you weren't suppose to, so I don't think I focused as much as I could have.

I will also focus on my progress, not his, that one will be hard, just being honest.


"This is confusing to me:
in the NC it was asked that she return all correspondence and pics of his family that he said he had sent her ... nothing has arrived and i believe he followed up with the NC, a DON'T SEND ANYTHING letter
Why were letters being sent after NC had been requested? I totally don't get that."

I think WH sent his own letter after the NC letter advising her either not to return his previous correspondences and photos of his family, or to direct them to his other mailbox (if he does actually have one)
The point of her returning these things (which were asked for in the NC letter at the end) was b/c my WH was 100% positive it would clear any romantics. I was trying to call his bluff. She has sent nothing back.
I understand now this was his 'fog' voice talking....right?? It should not have been included in the letter.

You are bang on with admiration being his top need, he says it is affection but I think admiration is first. I know I have not been meeting that need for some years.
I will meet them.

I feel like you have put some pieces of a puzzle together for me with everything you read from my post. Why haven't I been able to do that?? Never ending ? isn't it

I apologize for being so lengthy.
Thank you/all others so much for your thoughts.
I need to get some H/W done, will try to pop back periodically over next 2 days.







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