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just found out - Saturday AM - my whole world is spinning out of control and all I know is that I want to scream - yell - rip stuff up - throw something - lots of somethings.

I can't help but feel that I want to go back to the minute before I found out and do something else - not answer the phone from that creditor asking for me to make payment for a bill that I didn't make - What? I said - I don't even use a credit card - oh that card - yes my husband is an authorized user - what? yes what are the current charges? Coach $540 - FTD flowers $57 - Hotel? Car rental? Phone bill? (Silence) (Dead pan) Yes, I will take care of it - yes - no I don't need the phone number to call you back - yes I'll take care of it...That was an overnighter a day before Valentines day - a day before I was laid off from work. Know what I got for Valentines day? You got it zip - but someone else sure got something pretty good stuff - I didn't even get a kiss and Happy Valentines day - nothing -

I want that stuff - I want it all - every gift he gave her - everything - I want him to end it with her and tell her that I want the stuff - not just that they are breaking up - I want HER to know that I know - that I'm mad so mad - but that I'm not kicking him to the curb - he is MY husband - I've got 23 years invested in him and for all intents and purposes he's been a good man and father - but I want her to know that I will have that stuff - either to use or to sell.

WS says he wants to stay - wants to work it out - is willing to go to counseling - says it's up to me if he stays or not - after what I read here about the steps and what he would say and he said it all - especially the ENs stuff - at least I was prepared for it - I was able to answer and respond rationally without getting overly emotional and using hurtful words.

I will be a frequent visitor here - I have no advice to give but I could certainly use some! Thank you all for your support.

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Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
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Aw, closed, so sorry you find yourself here. You're in good company, at least.

Just found out Saturday...so raw...of course you're "spinning out of control."

Already your H is saying he wants to work it out? Offering to do marriage counseling?

Hmmm. Don't buy into that until you get a few things squared away. Do NOT administer cheap forgiveness. What he's done is HUGE, probably the most hurtful thing that's ever happened to you. It CANNOT be swept under the rug.

DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOUR WH IS DONE WITH HIS OW. You CANNOT assume that, no matter what he tells you right now. You have NO reason to trust him after he's just proven himself untrustworthy.

He needs to cut off ALL contact with her. And send her a "no contact" letter that very clearly states he regrets the affair, what he did was wrong, he has hurt you terribly and wants to make amends to you. That he is terminating all contact with her, effective immediately, and that he does not want her to contact him. NOT A GENTLE WORD in it. You read the letter, dictate any changes you need, and put it in the mail yourself. (There is a template for such a letter here. If you need it, we'll dig it up.)

If he is unwilling to do this, you should take that as a major redflag that would mean he intends to "cake eat;" that is, placate you while continuing contact with OW. Do not be fooled into premature trust.

He must also agree to answer all your questions about the affair, and to complete transparency from this day forward--access to his email passwords, cell phone records, etc. Hard to imagine he would be willing to do that right after D-Day, but it's been known to happen.

Test him...ask him to switch cell phones with you, and if he does, watch whether he gets another one, which he would hide as well as he could.

Read up on Plan A, via links on the MB home page. Get the books His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters and Surviving An Affair (at your local bookstore, or via the MB bookstore link). All required reading for putting the (very effective) Marriage Builder plan into action.

The world is spinning. Take a deep breath and buckle up. Gonna be a wild ride, but there are a lot of us here who've finally gotten off the rollercoaster and can help you avoid some mistakes we made along the way.

Is your H living at home now? How long have you been married? Kids? Not being nosy--these questions are to help us help you.

Right Here Waiting


Me BS 61
Him FWS 63
Married 40 years
D-Day 6/30/06
Still can't believe it.
6/08 Recovering nicely. Anything is possible!
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I agree. He needs to be completely transparent. My hubby only had an Emotional affair, not that that is a small thing, and he agreed to be transparent. I still have all his passwords, I have access to his cell, and everything. We read His Needs Her Needs together after almost a year of fighting and the book made a world of a difference. I would recommend reading it together. If he is really willing to work it out, even as far as therapy, then this book will really help you and him. I also recommend Love Must Be Tough by Doctor James Dobson. Good luck.


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MARRIED-3 YRS.
TOGETHER- 7 YRS.
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Is it too early to start counseling? I don't know if I can talk to him rationally face to face without someone to hold my hand or hold me back - I just want to smack him - not slap but knock him off his feet into the far wall.

He came home tonight - no call just showed up - he's been away since Saturday - sleeping in his truck one night in front of our house - another night I don't know where for sure - he said he just parked close to our house on a street above but he could've been with her for all I really know.

I know I need to approach the NC rule and the complete transparency. Switching cell phones is a good idea - one day he kept getting a call from a restricted number and said it was one of his co workers wanting to play golf - you know in the pit of my stomach I didn't believe him - this was just last week.

I agree - he is going to try to placate me to make things go back to the way that it was - me clueless and him having his cake and eating it too. Is it too much for me to take control of all the finances - put him on an allowance? Get ALL the bills so that I can track what's going on? Right now he handles all of that - I had no reason to question anything.

Where do I go from here?

He's here sleeping in our bed - I couldn't go in there...should I? I don't think so...

I couldn't look at him while he stood in the kitchen eating - I sat on the couch waiting for him to start - in my fantasy I thought that he come to me - take me in his arms and tearfully say he was sorry so sorry and that he would do anything ANYTHING to make this right - that he was wrong and that I was - that our family was more important to him then anything else and the thought that he could cause this much pain - that his stupidity and selfishness had caused to wreck our lives. But he didn't - didn't say a word - he slipped past the living room (house is very small) and went to bed.



Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
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Sorry you are here. You may want to consider moving your thread to General Questions. Hit notify at the bottom and ask the moderator to move your thread. There is much more traffic there and you get get many more views there.

First of all, the switching of the phones is a good idea. But, all he would have to do is call OW (from work, etc.) and tell her that you have his phone. So, keep that in mind.

Have you exposed? To everyone? This is a MUST. Do you know much about her? Spying is a great way to get more info. Put a GPS on his car or a voice activiated recorder somewhere in his vehicle. Do you have access to his email? Exposure is a great deterrant to putting an end to the A. (see Dr. Scott's thread under GQ11--I think it's called "Hi all, new here" or something like that--he is the exposure King.)

Demand that your H retrieve these items from OW--immediately. And, don't believe anything that he tells you. He will be speaking "fog speak" which is the result of a fantasy life...makes no sense.

Good luck to you. Visit the General Questions section and do some reading there. There is a ton of great advice there.

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Originally Posted by closed4eva
Is it too early to start counseling? I don't know if I can talk to him rationally face to face without someone to hold my hand or hold me back - I just want to smack him - not slap but knock him off his feet into the far wall.

He came home tonight - no call just showed up - he's been away since Saturday - sleeping in his truck one night in front of our house - another night I don't know where for sure - he said he just parked close to our house on a street above but he could've been with her for all I really know.

I know I need to approach the NC rule and the complete transparency. Switching cell phones is a good idea - one day he kept getting a call from a restricted number and said it was one of his co workers wanting to play golf - you know in the pit of my stomach I didn't believe him - this was just last week.

I agree - he is going to try to placate me to make things go back to the way that it was - me clueless and him having his cake and eating it too. Is it too much for me to take control of all the finances - put him on an allowance? Get ALL the bills so that I can track what's going on? Right now he handles all of that - I had no reason to question anything.

Where do I go from here?

He's here sleeping in our bed - I couldn't go in there...should I? I don't think so...

I couldn't look at him while he stood in the kitchen eating - I sat on the couch waiting for him to start - in my fantasy I thought that he come to me - take me in his arms and tearfully say he was sorry so sorry and that he would do anything ANYTHING to make this right - that he was wrong and that I was - that our family was more important to him then anything else and the thought that he could cause this much pain - that his stupidity and selfishness had caused to wreck our lives. But he didn't - didn't say a word - he slipped past the living room (house is very small) and went to bed.

Dear Eva,
I am so sorry you are here, but it is the best place you could be to help you through this ordeal.

Is it too early for counseling?
Yes it is. Counseling will do no good while he is still in the fog of the affair.

I know what you mean about wanting watch his body go flying up against the wall on the other side of the room....Please do not do that smile. When you feel like doing that, just come here and talk to us. Remember, the OW does not feel like doing that to him. That skank still seems wonderful in his fogged out mind. So much as you want to lambaste him, keep calm. You do have every right to let him know how much you are hurting as a result of his betrayal of you and your marriage. Just keep your fists and your pistol locked up when you do this smile.

Do you know who the OW is? You need to know this information. If he has not agreed to no contact and to write the no contact letter that you send out--you do need to develop your exposure plan. Get a list of people to expose to--family members, other woman's husband/boyfriend, other woaman's family members, work if it is a work related affair.

Taking over the finances is a good idea. You need to have access to all information--all passwords, all accounts, all cell phone records, e-mail accounts, etc.

I am glad that he slept in your house. Better to have him at home than out in his truck or with her.

You should be sleeping in your marital bed if you can do it without accidentally kicking him in the groin or shoving him out of the bed crazy.

He needs to get tested for STDs and you do too.

Where does he stand right now regarding information he is willing to give you and going no contact?

Let us know how you are doing and what is going on in your interaction with him.

You can't make demands of him, but you can set up boundaries.

One other thing--forget that crap that he sent to her. You do not want it--it is tainted and foul. You and he need to have nothing to do with that skank and the trash he gave her. He needs to throw out anything that he has that is affair-related from his end. But don't vex yourself or him over the crap he gave her. His very action of "no contact" with her will tell her how much she meant to him. That is the key thing to establish right now.


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FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
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Thanks for the positive support so far everyone.

I don't know who the OP is - I of course want to know - I will know - if only for my own sanity - we live in a really small town - an island actually - Maui - I had to suck up my pain and put it all on hold in order to function at a fundraiser we were doing for my son's Scout group - yes, I found out just as we were packing up all the candy and tables and stuff to go and sell in front of Safeway.

I had tears in my eyes as I put everything out - as my H and I worked together setting up the stations. Avoiding touching him as we reached for the same box - his touch was like a hot brand on me. Then when the other parents and their boys came - putting on the false face smiling and all - just to get through it.

But each girl - each woman - that walked past me into the grocery store - I stared at - tried to guess - was that her? Did that one walk a little faster and avoid me because she KNOWS who I am? It was horrible - my mother lives with me and Sunday 24 hours after I learned about this - she knew something was wrong - I told her things will be turned on it's head soon - just watch out - she looked at me and said that I didn't have the deer caught in the headlights look but rather that I have the eyes of a deer that's been shot and is suffering.

The boys were asking where dad was - the older one is all "Sheez where does dad go all day?" He didn't know that dad didn't come home for two nights. The younger one as he's getting out of the car at school said, "I miss dad - I haven't seen him for a long time" I assured him - you saw him on Saturday - it's just like when he's on shift work the 2-10 you guys don't see him for like 3 -4 days then - you'll see dad soon. I'm smiling with my suffering deer eyes.

Today will be our first day together alone - any ideas on how to approach him to talk and get the healing started?

Thank you all...


Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
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If you are in Maui you may have to download the manual "Surviving an affair" by Dr Harley.

Check order books section.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Update here.

Just had a conversation with WS - quite interesting - feelings of not being appreciated but expected to do everything. I put him second to my family - all the time. And why don't I get a job? That one was out of nowhere - I thought that he wanted me home. It was too hard for me to work - he does shiftwork and that at least we would have 1 parent home with the boys all the time - that there was someone there to provide some stability. Well, apparently he's resentful that he's the only one providing for the house. I thought that with his salary of minimum $80K we were fine - I only know of certain bills and in the calculator in my head I thought it was fine - well apparently it isn't and we now have $50K in cc debt - $50K!!! Most of that is just in interest charges alone and he wasn't making full payments - well, you can guess how that all goes...so needless to say I'm taking over the money - all of it I told him - we will refi the house and pay off everything and lower our mortgage to boot - we will be on a tighter budget which I'm on anyway - I don't spend money on impulse things and just for the heck of it - food, gas, stuff for the kids - you know my mom always said that bottom line it's all about the money!

On the OP - he refuses to say anything - wants to see a counselor first - I asked the who is she? What's her name? Do you work with her? Have you ended it? questions but got only stoney silence so I'm guessing right now that he hasn't.

He was home all night - he's just gone to work to get some paperwork to see the counselor. I know that I have some personal issues to work through - I know that since we didn't really deal with his EA 13 yrs ago - that colored/changed our marriage ever since - which wasn't fair but it did. I always felt like I wasn't good enough and would withdraw at times but most of the time we seemed fine...

We can fix this - I'm hopeful - I always tell people and WS that I'm giving him 50 yrs - we've got 27 more to go.



Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
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You have 50K in cc debt that you didn't know about? Tell your husband that you want to see the statment of the credit card. If he's buying her Coach bags, etc. there's no telling how much of that 50K was spent on OW.

Are you sure he's going to work and not OW?
Asking you why didn't you get a job was a little odd if you've always been a stay at home mom...maybe he's gearing you up to support yourself? I'm not sure...just suggestions.

You really need to get more info on the OW and EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

I would like to see you hit notify at the botton and ask to be moved to general questions 11 sections...you will get much more traffic there and probably many more suggestions. Most of the vets frequent that section.

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Thanks for the reply - I'm hoping that he went to work - he's currently on vacation for one more week - went to get the financial papers - pay stubs and the Employee Help forms - they have access apparently to help - we'll be doing the MT thing.

I am thinking that he may have gone to see the OP - in my fantasy he's telling her that it's over - that he is married and when faced with life away from us he can't do it - because although she provides him with the excitement and whatever - his life is with his family and he never would've left them anyways - but he just didn't want to get found out.

But that's just the fantasy - reality is he's probably with her - what he's doing I don't know - crying his eyes out because he got caught in the lies and deception? I've told him that he needs to cut it off with her NOW - he can't have contact, etc. - how long should I expect this to last? Should it be immediate - I thought I read where there would be a period of withdrawal...

The bills - I looked them online - the only recent activity on the card I have access to - which is mine! Only shows really recent stuff February - before that no new charges - just a debt that he let get out of control because he wasn't paying it down on time and then the interest rate shot up so on and so forth - talked with the credit card company and I've arranged a payment plan at 2% for 5 yrs but I'm sure I can it off faster.

I'll take your advice and see if they can move this post to the General Question section.

Thank you all once again...


Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
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closed, the way to end an affair is to send a no contact letter as outlined in Surviving an Affair. Do you have that book?

Have you exposed the affair? Exposure is your most potent weapon against the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure ruins the fantasy. Everyone should know, your children, both sets of parents, employers if a workplace affair, etc. This is the start of recovery because it ruins the affair.

If your H will not agree to send the NC letter and end his affair, then you would probably want to consider Plan B, which is complete separation. That protects your mental and physical health until the affair does end.

Sorry you are here. frown


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks for the info and the letter idea - I talked with him briefly this afternoon on the phone while I was on my way to pick up our kids - told him again about no contact - asked the whiney question of did he spend a lot of money on her? No he said. I don't think he's ended it yet though...

I think he thinks this is gonna go away if he plays his cards right - he's saying the right things - keeps coming back to me that the past couple years - yes years - he hasn't been happy - say what??? Coulda fooled me - there were times when we would have disagreements - times I regretted saying what I said - but we never got into a heavy duty fight where we would yell and stuff - just what I would call disagreements. I liked the one about I don't listen to him and he's been so frustrated.

Anyhow, those were all his justifications for pursuing this A - it's all my fault...

He's sleeping right now - I think he is in the depression stage - heck it's the middle of the afternoon - I'm trying not to push him - trying not to be irrational and shrewish - it's so hard to not start screaming at him for being so stupid and weak - if he had just said something - and yes, if I had been a little more sensitive to what he needed. I see that now - major wake up call but I want to make this work and I want us to be fixed - I just hope and pray to God that he REALLY wants to make this work too.

Last edited by closed4eva; 03/03/09 08:40 PM.

Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
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Has the affair been exposed? Is the OW married and does her husband know about the affair?

When will he end his affair?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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No the affair hasn't been exposed exposed - my mother lives with us and she suspects that something is wrong - I told her that "someone" needs to decide where he wants to be here or somewhere else. I've got to study how to do it...

I told him that we will have to tell his family - I got stoney silence then - his mother just lost her 96 y/o father and things are in a tumble over there dealing with his death and the funeral isn't till 3/20 - I want their support - I'm gonna guess that his older sister is gonna let him have it - she is his big sis - his brother is my age - about to be married - we are the most alike which is funny and born just a day apart - we've all always gotten along well together - I always tell people that my in laws have always been nice to me - I've never had the same MIL problems that so many people tell me about - she has always sided with me on stuff in the past of course nothing as serious as this has ever come up though - so I'm hoping they will support me and in that supporting US.

I know that my family support me of course - I have 2 brothers and and 2 SILs - one of them isn't going to like this I think - it'll be interesting to see her reaction - she is very vocal - not sure what to tell our sons - ages 9 and 12 - my older son suspected something I think - he would ask - where's dad? what's he doing when he's gone - I think he was more intuitive then I...


Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
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Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
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Quote
I told her that "someone" needs to decide where he wants to be here or somewhere else. I've got to study how to do it...

Can I ask why you would tell her this? I am confused. What do you need to "study?" Wouldn't the logical answer be to simply say the truth? Why would you need to study how to tell someone the truth? Don't you just say the truth?

It wouldn't be a good idea to FOREWARN your husband before you expose,he would just pre-empt you. It should come as a surprise. Exposure is best done in one fell swoop so that it has a tsunami effect on the affairees.

I don't get the sense that you really want to save your marriage, though, since you don't appear to be willing to do anything to save it. Are you ok with things as things are? Or does your title mean you WANT to be a divorce statistic?

Is the OW married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dr. Willard Harley, clinical psychologist, founder of Marriage Builders and author of Surviving an Affair:

"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 16
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 16
Well, no I don't want to be a divorce stat - I do want this to work out - I'm just so scared of what the outcome would be - what if in the end HE really wants out - that this is it for us -I'm scared!

Thank you for the tough questions - they may hurt my feelings a little but they do make me take stock and take a harder look at what is going on and they only make me want to work harder and make it work...

So I should just tell people - We're having some problems right now - as a matter of fact he's been seeing someone else apparently and I just found out about it and I really need your support right now?

I guess my title is a little flippant - I typed and retyped different ones - just didn't know what to say - but know this I don't WANT the marriage to end - I want it to be fixed and I want US back in a healthy place.

And I don't know who or what or anything about the OW - he refuses to tell me anything - says he wants to wait till we go to counseling - should I press him for more details now?


Me - BS (43 years old)
Him - WS (45 years old)
Kids - 2 boys 10 & 13
Married - 17 years
Time together - 24 years
1st affair (EA) - DD = 2/28/2009
2nd affair (EA or PA - he won't say) - DD = 5/13/2010
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 39
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Posts: 39
I do not believe your title is flippant, I am a statistic too.

I understand very deeply that you are scared that he may want to leave you, I have wared with this myself for many months now. He may not though.

I have finally come to a place after my husband's 2 1/4 year affair that I have set him free in my heart to stop trying to control him in this affair or try to control his life in general. This is one of the most extreme hard things to do when you want to make your marriage work, but this is where time has taken me.

I can say to you that if and when you yourself get to this place you will feel so free in your heart. I am in no way telling you to tell your husband good bye, just the opposite. Believe me, getting to this place with your husband will make him take deep notice of how you are acting towards him. He will be more drawn to you. Even though our men can argue just as much as we can, they want peace. If you can bring true peace in your relationship with him I know that this will be another great plus to bringing your marriage back together.

Have you read Dr. Harley F Harley's His Needs Her Needs Book yet? I am telling you this from experience, if you meet your husband's 5 top needs and your husband meets your 5 top needs I know there will be change for the better in your marriage.

There is a part in this book where Dr. Harley says that most marriages lead to reconciliation rather than divorce. As far as the counseling I would counsel with someone from the Marriage Builders site here. They have telephone counseling. Dr Harley knows what he is talking about and this would be the perfect place to get the counseling that you husband said he would get. I know I am going to use these counselors.

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