My twin brother called her that when I was in the hospital, he said she wouldn't look him in the eyes in the cafeteria and figured out for himself what was wrong.

I hadn't told him yet because he would have eviscerated OM.

I don't worry about forgiving the OW. She's as guilty as my FWH in terms of adultery but she acted like such a pig after discovery that I have no intention on wasting my time trying to forgive her. If FWH had acted like her I would have washed my hands of him. FWH's actions are what hurt me and damaged our M. If it wasn't for him being weak and selfish, OW wouldn't matter. So while I turn a cheek to OW it's because I think she is worthless not because she is forgiven. She can seek forgiveness from her BH and God.

I think there are different levels of betrayal that leads to the lowest level of not being forgivable.

A repentant wife who truly shows remorse and wants to recover the marriage is forgivable.

An unrepentant wife who is trying to have you killed, divorces you after you expose, and takes everything you have?

Absolutely, I will meet her in hell.

I hope you don't meet your unrepentant WW in hell. That's an eternity of misery.

Pariah,

I feel sorry for your circumstances. I am surprised that no case was made against your wife that would convicted her of dangerous behaviour.

Carrying all of her sins that she did to you is a double death. I hope that you can pray for her spiritual healing. God is the source of all blessing. The fact that the blessing has been removed can be a source of greater blessing.

I pray that you do not meet her in hell.

I did make a case, the judge dismissed it as "heat of the moment stupidity" and told her not to do it again and I got a warning for illegal conversation recording.



I don't care.

BTW, you have STILL failed to tell WHY you are here.

I feel if you stick around long enough, you will be able to glean enough to make something up that is almost believable to cover your true intentions.

O/T: This subject is a very strong one for me. I have turned into a MB junkie. I hope that I can help someone (without annoying Mel).

I too will NEVER forgive the OW. She may not have been the one who made me promises, but she also KNEW my H was married (she was single) and did not care, she wanted him and went after him.

While i agree the my FWH was not raped, he willing went along, any woman who purposefully goes after a M man is a "white trash ho" IMHO.

Not only that but after my FWH broke it off with her, she made MY life pure hell. Calling his phone all the time knowing full well that i had his phone and just saying nasty things to me.

I actually wish her ill will and i am not usually that type of person.

I'm not sure if I can understand forgiveness for the Affair Partner... what, are we to turn the other cheek? Why not just let them have another go at your spouse then? You see, I don't get it.

It's a weird place to be, I sometimes feel pity for OW because of the sad path in life that she has chosen, but I still have a lot of anger as well.

I am nowhere near "forgiving" her because as far as I know (NC has been in place for 2 years, so I really know nothing anymore), she is unremorseful for what she has done. The last I could tell, SHE thought SHE was a victim in all of this and was still justifying the A because I did not "accept" my H for who he is (or who he portrayed himself to be to her). <GAG>

Maybe someday I will be able to "forgive" her but without any sort of remorse or apology, I don't see it anytime soon. I know I will never get that because of NC, but that is how I feel TODAY. Maybe that will change as time goes on, I don't know.

And I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with forgiving a FWS who is asking for and actively WORKING towards being forgiven. Delivering "just compensation" is a step towards earning forgiveness, IMO, and that is not something an AP is able to give.

Right there with you MF. In my case, OW went around blaming her BH and my H. She played the victim role to the hilt and tried talking my H into leaving me once I discovered the A...**OW mentality** - now that BW knows we can be together forever...BW and your children will get over it. I still don't care if we continue to hurt people.** Yeah, I was holding FWH hostage the duration of the A. :RollieEyes: The best thing that came of this was that FWH got to see just how low his low life fbuddy was. Strange considering he was guilty too but there ya go.

As far as I know OW is still unremorseful, unrepentant and just bitter that FWH dumped her. Even her BH told me she was 1,000 times a bigger pig than my H could ever be. How's that for messed up?

Maybe one day I will forgive her. Can one subconsciencely forgive? LOL But today I wish her ill and try to keep thinking of her as worthless so I don't think of her at all. I hope God understands. I'm only human.

My sentiments exactly.

When I retaliated against her EA with my FWH, she had the gall to act like a victim and contact my FWH after he told her it was over "look what your wife did...look what your wife texted me...I think your wife did "x"...." What did she think he was going to do, leave me for her?? :twobyfour:

thanks all for taking the time to post. A lot of interesting stuff on here, but I think it's true to say that forgiving the AP is beyond the majority of us.

Funnily enough, it is a relief to know that forgiving her is not something that I should be working towards, and I say that because in my heart I do not know if I am capable of forgiving her for what she tried to do not only to me but to my children also.

I can understand that as my FWH is begging for my forgiveness, and is working so very hard towards making this up to me, that he is working towards being forgiven. He has also apologised to the OWH and their family for the part he played in the A. He has apologised several times, both face to face and in writing, and I know that he has genuine remorse for what he did.

I, on the other hand have never had any sort of apology. She apparently thinks the whole thing is quite funny and cannot understand why I can't just "let it go". Nor can she understand why she no longer has any friends and people walk by and ignore her. Some people may not deserve to be forgiven, and I just have to accept that I think.

I think I'll stick with the pity and work towards ambivalence.

Thanks all x

I will forgive

after I bust her face or her knee caps

I'll let her choose

I get confused about the question of forgiveness without an apology or any remorse.

Since I have no knowledge of either on the part of the OW, I don't think alot about forgiveness.

That being said, I try not to let her have too much space in my head, I do think ill of her when I have to drive near where she lives. But I will probably never know if she even feels badly about what she did to my children's family.

I am also very fortunate that the affair did end. If I had to deal with OW being a current fixture, I am sure my feelings would be different.

My Ex has never apologized or asked for forgiveness. But I guess I forgave him for the affair. He is still being a jerk, so there is a constant cycle of forgiveness going on, at least as long as I have to have him in my life via our children.

How do you know you have forgiven? Are there "symptoms" that indicate you have forgiven?

In my case: Same victimhood, same justifications, same attempts to make H choose her once I discovered the affair, same lack of remorse, same lack of repentance, same bitterness towards my H...Same OW? Her twin, living in Europe?

Spooky, b_r.

Nah, this is typical OW thinking. They ALL think this way. Just as WS's read from the same script, so do OW.

This is very clear from sites like TOW. <I am NOT recommending that you read there...it's very ugly and disturbing. A long time ago I read there and it was sickening...these are the lowest of the low, women who BRAG about having affairs with MM. I cannot fathom women hurting other women in this way, and BRAGGING about it and justifying it. My point is simply that "other women" all have the same messed up mentality....they are immature to the hilt, just as the OW in all of our sitches.>

According to the book How Can I Forgive You: The Courage to Forgive, The Freedom Not To by Janis Abrahms Spring, there are four kinds of forgiveness: Refusing to Forgive, Cheap Forgiveness, Acceptance, and Genuine Forgiveness. Genuine Forgiveness must be earned and "come with a price that the offender must be willing to pay." According to Terry Hargrave, "Forgiveness is accomplished when the victimized person no longer has to hold the wrongdoer responsible for the injustice; the wrongdoer holds himself or herself responsible."

From the book, "Genuine Forgiveness takes strength and resolve. Standing up for yourself, you insist that you've been wronged and require an accounting in the 'ledger of justice'. You don't give up your position of power; you give up your preoccupation with power."

Ms. Spring writes that you can accept what one has done (Acceptance), but in order to genuinely forgive a person, the offender must participate and be sorry for the harm they've caused. If the OW hasn't done that in your case, you may never be able to forgive her. And that's acceptable. You may only get to the Acceptance stage, if possible.

"Genuine Forgivenes requires reciprocity. [The victim] must decide whether to open the door and let [the offender] in; [the offender] must decide whether to cross the threshold and reach out to you. Either of you can take the first step."

I could quote from the pages all day. It's a book I have earmarked, highlighted, written in, and refer to often. It has taught me much as I've struggled to earn forgiveness from others and from myself.

I'm not quite sure how to put that neat little box around the above Armymama quote; but I do want to say that after three months, I feel the same as Armymama. I too spend too much time thinking of how much I hate the OW in my FWH's life. Her nasty little "spirit" makes quite a little three-some in too much that my FWH and I do. Some days are better than others, and today is one of the bad days.

You're right of course, Married, but this is just to do with my (not very funny!) joke that b_r and I are distant cousins.

I have read TOW; I used to be obsessed with finding out how OWs think. Now that I have rarely think about my H's OW, I only go there when the server here is down. The forum there is sickening but worse, they think that this site is sickening. The attitudes there are even worse than those of my H's OW.