If I could tell someone how to forgive I would. Unfortunately, I can't. I do however believe that is the only way to recover.

If you've read any of my posts you would know I don't agree with any part of Plan A. I'm a fan of Plan 'beg for forgiveness or hit the curb'.

You are right, sometimes the best forgiveness is Plan D. I don't deny that.




K, by his own addmission, has a very remorseful FWW. If that's not enough for him he SHOULD D. If someone can attempt R I think someone with a remorseful spouse stands a better chance. If the untainted marriage is something he needs, then D is the ONLY answer and he should pursue it immediately.


I have no clue what you are talking about here. Where the he77 did I mention the bible?


Uh, agreed.


I never denied his right. Period.

T
That remains to be seen.



I'll leave this to Krazy.

IAM

What does "forgiveness" entail in your view ?

I look at it as one of those things in my M that will never be solved. Just as there are other things in my M that will never be solved. Then I look at the benefits I get from my M. I forecast what that will be like in the future. Then I decide if the benefits are worth more than those problems "cost." If they do, then I accept the fact that my FWW had an A, stay married and move on with my life.

Why not ask me the meaning of life?

OK, I'll try....

To me (and I can only speak for me) it is the act of no longer seeking restitution for an offense. Letting go of the resentment and anger. Allowing the other person to be flawed.

Please note, there is no forgetting in there.

You didn't. I did not search any of your posting history either, so I put a question mark behind it. Around here the only justification for D is 99% cited as biblical. So I didn’t want to offend you, just in case.

I agree with you here. It almost becomes like a calculation. Do I give up my house, family and the WW I loved bc she had an A but is sorry and wants to work things out. Add to that that I wasn't the best H in the world (in no way taking responsibility for A though.)

In reality I think all people do calculations when entering serious relationships and M. We have the lust/love aspect that gets people together (we did need that from an evolutionary point of view to make sure there would always be people around) but what makes them stay together? Would most women marry a man with no job or prospects and in 150k in debt? I think it would at the very least make a women thing twice. And for a man - would they marry a women who didn't pay attention to her appearance at all and showed absolutely no interest in SF? Probably not. Shallow examples but these kinds of things and others are evaluated and calculated when decided if we should pursue the relationship. So I think much the same happens when the BS decides if he wants to keep the M going. I don't think its wrong so long as he is ok with the overall choice.

Part 1 I agree with. It is the choice of not needing the offender to incur the due penalty for their offense. This is what God does. We deserve death, we get life instead. Wonderful. God's choice to lay aside his entitlement to dues.

Part 2 - letting go of resentment and anger - is not a choice IMO but instead is a consequence of a FWS working to compensate the BS. Full love banks have poor resentment memory IME.

Part 3 - Not sure I understand this. Do people expect perfection from their spouses ? Not I !

This is why I do not think forgiveness alone is the solution to a successful recovery.

Hopeful,

I don't think this is a TJ, because your answer will assist Krazy in his dilemma, but I noticed your Div date was October of 08.

So no regrets?

Do you have kids?

Did your FWW collapse into a hysterical grieving fit when you ripped the band aid off?

How is she doing now? Or do you care? Is there no communication with her anymore? Are you still in the same general location or did one of you move?

Was there any satisfaction slash/ revenge feeling when the big D was final?

I noticed the age difference between she and you. Did this make it any easier to decide?

And if there are any other BHs here at MB, that have gone through the same thing, ending in big D, could they chime in here too?

I just know when Krazy was talking about looking into his 8 year old son's eyes, I got a little misty myself.

That is a big deal!!!

And like MR PURE indicated, this might come down to the lesser of the 2 evils.

Krazy, would you throw yourself on a grenade to save your son?

Hope that example isn't too extreme.

kirk

Krazy,

I am going to quote 6's previous post and then comment.

When I first came here a decade ago, it seemed to be understood that what Harley thought was that many marriages could be saved if people did not immediately divorce upon learning of an affair, but gave the marriage a chance to heal and for the players in the marriage to learn, heal, and change some of their perspectives. However, he was under no illusion that all marriage could or should have be saved.

In recent years, it seems to me marriage at all costs seems to be the tenor if not the fact of this site. I think you as the BS have given this three years. Your W has taken the opportunity you gave her to try and repain what was so severely damaged. It doesn't seemed to have worked. It is evaluation time now. You both need to make the evaluation and then decision.

Yes you do have children to consider, and yes your decision will affect them. Your W's decisions have also affected them as well. If it is true that you really cannot handle being married to her, the job before you is to negotiate a divorce that has the least impact on the children. There will be impact, but make it the least.

your W needs to know how you feel so that she can address her role in the future of the children as well.

You are not obliged to remain married to your W. She was not obliged to try and repair the damage she did with her choices. BUT, you both are obliged to do the best you can for your children.

I personally think that the three years you have tried have allowed you to in fact, treat a divorce, your W and your children in a far better manner than if you had when you first came here so full of anger. I don't think your three years were wasted.

Please think about these things. As you can see many folks here care greatly about you and the decisions you are faced with.

God Bless,

JL

Krazy,

I started a thread about exactly this thing a few months ago (under a different name). I titled it, "If the WW comes back, what then?"

And we debated the exact same thing that you're debating and wrestling with right now.

I think I can understand how, after overcoming the shock and getting the WW to come home, a period of analysis kicks in for the BH to say, "Why am I doing this?"

I could also forsee the betral rearing it's ugly head over and over again for a BH, with resentment being a constant presence and that nagging feeling of "will she do it again" being there so much so that trusting her again was a near impossibility.

You have no reason to feel guilty about how you feel. If anything, you need time away from her to really heal completely. I think that only after having this time away to complete your healing could you approach her as a different person and a different woman.

But even then, you may not want to. I'm 3 years removed from my exww and there's no way I would truly consider reconciling with her now that I know what I know and see her for her true self and as someone I should never have married in the first place. I got my 3 kids out of it, but paid one heck of a price for a life lesson.

The hard lesson I've learned on these boards is that no one is worth living a perpetual purgatory for. NO ONE!

Krusht

For me it was the best decision I made. I told her quickly and she went through all emotions for about four months. Age had nothing to do with making this choice any easier. It was all about me and something I needed to do. In order for me to be happy I needed to start my life over again with someone else.

Now she is re-married to some new guy (his problem now) and I'm dating someone since last summer. It's nice to look into the eyes of someone and not feel betrayed. It's nice to smile again and not have the past cloud my thoughts. But again, this is my situation and I caution anyone about making this decision.

Hope,

Thank you for the response.

Divorced: 10/2/2008

Now she is re-married to some new guy

Boy she didn't waste any time.

kirk

Krusht,

Here is my chime. The decision was difficult and I was very fearful of hurting the children. In my case, I hurt them more by waiting because xWW was a bad mother as well as a bad wife. I should have forced the whole issue years ago.

As for now, I am very happy, new grand son on the way in just over two weeks, my children are happy and adjusting, I have enough of a sex life, and xWW is still in Italy. I have no doubt that the transition will be more difficult for most since my xWW essentially evaporated within a few weeks of the D and I don't have money problems.

Krazy,

What's going on man? Hope you are doing better.

Want2Stay

Hi all.

I've been busy at work, not much time to post.

I'm trying to have some honest discussion with her.

I'll update soon.

I believe that I have some form of PTSD from this whole mess as well, I could easily identify with much of the link that Pep posted.

I sometimes feel the same way as your first post, Krazy, and I wonder if this will ever end for me. What if I am really one of those BS's who can't "get over it"?

I also completely agree with this:


This is the same for me...my PTSD actually gets WORSE when FWH is not around, it gives me too much time to replay the horrible events of the past 3 years over and over in my head. It's hard for me to remember the good things he is doing NOW to help us recover, all I can remember are the BAD things he did in the past.

No advice, just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I really have no idea if D would help with the PTSD...it would sure suck to try it and find out it DIDN'T help.

I asked for D because I knew I couldn't get passed it, ever. The people who know me well knew I couldn't get passed an A. The reason is because it had changed my fWxW(AND ME!). She had become something totally opposite of who I had married. Luckily, I was young enough to just walk away and move on w/ my life. I miss my kids something fierce. I hate to think that she used them as an insurance policy against me going plan D. I get the sense she did and that makes me sick. Its probably one of the reasons I attacked her emotionally on the way out. Your recovery is much faster "on the outside" I think because its much easier to just say "HIT HAPPENS!" I have no regrets.

Krazy said:

The facts are that I'm never going to be able to be with her and not think about the affair. No matter how much I love her, no matter what mountains she moves to try and make me happy, nothing will ever make me able to live with it. It absolutely breaks my heart.

I understand completely. I think your answer lies in this statement. I have read your story from start to finish and often agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts and actions. I wonder where I will be in a couple of years. I hope you find some happiness in whatever path you choose. Maybe a separation would help? Once alone you would find yourself happy or missing your family.

Krazy,

Bumped the old thread for your benefit. Many thoughts on this subject, but I imagined what it would have been like for the exww to return.

The feelings later on for me would have been tough to overcome.

Krazy,

Bumped to tell you that the more I think about your plight the more we must realize that you are not the bad guy here. Don't beat yourself up over it.

She is the one that had the 3 1/2 years of betrayal.

If you hadn't walked in on them, it might still be going on.

For me, it was going on for three years, meeting maybe once a month for their enjoyment. He lived in another state and would fly in and book a room.

If I had not looked at some undeleted emails, who knows how much longer it would have been going on.

It wasn't like she was going to confess to me...HA!

So wassup?

kirk