Hello all...

I am struggling with H lying. This is not a new thing..it has happened throughout our 13 year marriage. Caught him in his first lie about a year into the marriage. He had gone to a strip club and had not told me. More of a lie-by-omission thing-something he has become quite prolific at.


At least every other year, I catch him in some kind of lie. I either overhear something or find it. I found a vial hidden in a cut-out in a book...confronted him and he denied it was his. I later found out that he had been using steroids.

Another time he came home from a business trip with his knuckles all bloody and cut. I knew they were teeth marks. He denied it and said that he got his hand shut in a car door. I absolutely KNEW that he was lying, but by the time he was done with his denial, I had come to the conclusion that I was clinically insane so I dropped it. Months later, I find out that I was right...he got in a fight. Surprise surprise.

There are several other instances similar to what I have described above, but don't want to bore you with details.

3 years ago, I caught him twice in a two month period lying about being on the phone with other women. The last incident resulted in uncovering a year long affair. Went to MC and have been trying to recover since.

In January of this year, I caught him in another lie. He was on a business trip and had gone to eat with some of the other guys. I could tell he had been drinking. He told me he'd had two beers. I doubted that since he was slurring so much, but I let it go. As we were talking, he told me he was leaving the restaurant and going back to the hotel.

About an hour later, I called him to tell him goodnight. He didn't answer, but called back a few minutes later. He said he had gone back to the restaurant. Problem is, I heard very loud music in the background. I knew he wasn't at a restaurant. I told him that I didn't think he was being honest and of course, denial as usual.

Later on that night, I sent him a text telling him that I knew he was lying and that if he didn't fess up that he would need to find a place to stay when he got home. He told me that they did leave the restaurant and went to a hotel bar down the street but that when he said he was at the restaurant he was there at that time (Bulllll). He also told me that he had only had 3 beers the entire evening.

Fast forward...I find the credit card bill from that month-it's a company card. I found $95.00 worth of charges from that evening. Can someone tell me how a person can spend $95.00 on dinner at Outback and three beers? So last night I confront him about it. Tells me that he can't remember but he was sure he only had the 3 beers that night. Yet he was supposedly so drunk he couldn't remember making the charges at the bar? Come on.

So, here I am again....questioning my sanity. I knew something felt wrong the night it happened. Now I feel that I have solid proof that he is lying to me. Yet, he is so good at denial that I allow myself to get sucked in yet again. At this point, I feel that I only have myself to blame for letting it continue, but the fear of maybe, just maybe he is telling the truth and I am being irrational seems to keep creeping in.

I explained to him last night that the lies are eroding the marriage. I think it's already past the point of no return to be honest. I can't say that I love him anymore. The trust is just GONE. He says he is trying to change but still will not admit that he lied about that night.

At this point, does it seem that I am justified in leaving, or getting a separation? Do I continue to enable him to lie to me? Is there a "lie quota" that someone has to meet before the spouse just loses all love and trust? Any input would be appreciated....


2 DD-8 and 9
Married 13 years

You need to draw some boundaries and start snooping. Have you checked your cell phone records? Have you guessed at or are you willing to spy on his email accounts?

By no means should you tolerate lies in any way. Call them when you see them.

But men are really stupid about one thing, and that's reading their wives.

We have a tendency to think, "If she's not complaining, then we don't have any problems".

Sit him down and very seriously look at him and say, "We've been married for 11 years and I'm very unhappy right now to the point where I'm seriously thinking about ending this marriage. This isn't a joke and my feelings aren't going to just go away. We need professional help."

That will hopefully open up the door to what to do and what needs to be done. I'd avoid accusations, but you let him know how you're feeling. I'd avoid the why until you do have professional help.

But put him on notice.

This is no way to live. Best of luck.

I have checked cell phone records since the discovery of the A three years ago. Problem is, he has a company cell phone that I cannot have access to. I do know his home email account number and password, but again...a work account that I can't see. He is a federal agent so both cell phone and email contain classified material that I cannot access.

I have some other posts on the site that can give you more history. I asked for a divorce a few months ago, but decided to try again...mainly because of the kids.

I'm a contractor that works for the government at the Pentagon. I'm very familiar with the standards for secrecy on cell phones and emails.

There is NO classified info permitted on unsecured communications machines such as unsecure cells or computers. Those items stay locked in a vault or an office cleared for classified stuff.

In other words he doesn't have any classified info on any computer he brings home. It might be For Official Use Only, but it isn't classified.

I wouldn't, however, plant a keylogger on a government computer.

But all it takes is a little carelessness on his part and you'll catch the expenses or little pieces of the puzzle that reaveal what is really going on.

ooh...well, the cell is a secured phone so i don't know the details on how to get phone records on it. He doesn't have a take home computer, but he has a government email addy that does contain sensitive material, some of which is classified so I am hesitant to snoop into those things. Thanks for the info..it might just be helpful.

Lost,

I am an intel officer by trade and have been for 21 years. There is absolutely no classified information on any hand held device or phone carried in the open. period.

If he was carrying classified info it would have to be wrapped, go from one place straight to another etc.....

His phone may be a secure telephone mobile unit...but i doubt it. he doesn't want you to look at it, but it doesn't have classified on it. His computer isn't either unless your house is certified as a classified storage location. If he is a director, or deputy director or a senior officer...maybe. Otherwise no.

His .gov email also doesn't have classified on it either. It may have people's social security numbers etc. on it, but that's it.

I agree with BR however, you do not want to go hacking into a gov phone or installing software on his computer, it prob wouldn't let you anyway.

Just wanted to write you to let you know, at the least, his cover story about the classified is not plausible.

My husband has a company email address and company phone that are not accessible by me. You can still put a recorder in his car or a gps phone with the sound turned off in his car to track his actions. You can still find out what he is doing without access to the computer and phone. He is lying way too much. Your gut is telling you that something is wrong. You have given him a chance to open up to you and he wont't take it. You can find out what is really going on. Don't ignore your gut feelings. You are not nuts - even though he would love to have you believe that. There is probably more infidelity. There are just too many lies.

I told him last night that I want him to go to IC and that I will do the same with a different counselor. Every other week, I want to go to the MC together and compare notes to see how things are progressing. If things seem to be heading in the right direction, then maybe consider having a date night once a week.

I also told him that one of us needs to find a different place to stay until we are both at a point where we can begin to rebuild the marriage(if or when that can happen). I told him that the lies have undermined the foundation of the marriage and in turn have affected my feelings for him.

He agreed that he has a problem with honesty, but still made excuses for why he lies. Until he uncovers the root cause of why he feels the need to lie, we will never be able to put this marriage back together.

He is not liking the idea of not being in the same house for a while, but I feel this is something that is necessary- otherwise he has no incentive to change.

So that is where we stand for now. He is on a trip right now so when he gets back, I am making plans for the girls and I to go have a "girl's getaway" for a couple days. Then he can work out finding a place to stay for the next few weeks.

Please pray for me, because right now, he is making every excuse to not have this time apart. Says there is no one he feels comfortable staying with. I really feel that I need to be at the house through the week since I take the kids to and from school, but I am very willing to work with him on taking turns staying here when at all possible. I am just concerned that he is going to use the kids as an excuse to keep me from doing what needs to be done...he has done so in the recent past. He has used guilt to persuade me to stick with the status quo and I don't want to let that happen again.

I won't be the first or only person to tell you this but "trial separations" are nothing more than a recipe to divorce. If your goal is to save your marriage then you should NOT be separated.

Read Dr. Harley's articles on this. He advocates spending 15 hours a week of quality time with your spouse.

You're setting up a scenario where it's very easy for one, if not both of you to say, "to heck with this, I can find someone better".

You've just given him the super easy way for him or for you to cheat.

I advise you to strongly reconsider, because this isn't the way to save a marriage and no one here will support you on the idea of the separation.

And having a "date night" should not be a condition or goal based on "progress" as defined by you. Date night should be the norm as a way to rebuild your marriage.

Leaving it as a condition of progress is like saying you will exercise eventually when you feel you're in good enough shape.

Ummm. You start the exercise right away in order to get in shape.

Your date nights should be your exercise.

I have had mixed feelings in the past about the separation as well, but at this point our MC has recommended it. I see the lies as an extension of the initial A. Since he has refused to follow NC related to the lying, then I feel that plan B is justified at this point. As long as I am here tolerating it, then he is not going to stop....history has proven that fact.

I do see how the date night idea sounded like a condition, but I don't mean it to be that way. He's not a dog that I can toss a treat to when he's been a good boy. I was maybe using a date night as a way to temporarily reconnect and share what we have learned in IC. But I do see how that sounded in my post.

Please don't kick out your husband that wants to stay in the house. It is so much easier to work on your marriage with both of you together. It is much easier to snoop too - which you need to do. You don't know what he is covering up. How are you going to figure out what is going on? You must do this.

This marriage counselor has no experience saving marriages, from the looks of it, because advising separation is one of the worst things you can do to save a marriage.

SH is against it and so is MB. You don't save a marriage by being apart.

And Plan B involves having no contact with your spouse until an affair ends or to prepare the BS for divorce.

You don't even have confirmation that there is an affair going on.

I would tell you that there was no way in he77 I was moving out of my home and that if you wanted to leave to make sure that the door didn't hit you in the a$$ on the way out. Oh, and BTW, our daughter stays in the marital home if you decide to go.

I'd then be filing for abandonment and full custody.

You don't save a marriage by being separated and you don't go to counselors that advocate such things.

Call SH if you're at your wits end.

Read the article section written by SH. Don't take my word for it but take the advice of a man with a track record for saving marriages.

I had a counselor in my situation which was an idiot as well and I ended up divorced for following his advice.

Trust me when I tell you that separation will not save a thing.

Being separated makes it that much more easier for your H to continue lying and living a double life.

I may not have given as much history in this thread as I should have...I just know that loooong threads typically get overlooked and I really needed advice. But let me go into a little bit more detail to explain why I have gotten to this point...

Lies are not the only issue that have plagued our marriage.


3 years ago I overheard a phone call with a woman that he had seen the week before at a class reunion. He lied and said that it was a male friend, but I made him call the number back, and it was this woman.

A month later, I uncovered an affair that he had been having for almost a year with a MW that lived out of state. She was a massage therapist that he went to while out of town. He cut off all contact with her as soon as it was uncovered and we went to counseling. He admits to EA but denies a PA.

6 months after that, I found porn on the computer. He thought he had deleted it, but didn't realize that there were still traces of it in windows media player. He had not covered his tracks as well as he thought.

Last year he was on a business trip and I was unable to get ahold of him one night. Finally he called me back around 2:30AM and said that he had gotten up to go to the bathroom and saw that I had tried to call his cell phone. It was right next to his bed and he supposedly didn't hear it ring although I know that he uses that same phone as an alarm clock when he is on those trips. The next month when I got his credit card bill, I found bar charges for that same night. Very similar situation to what happened in January of this year.

Which bring us to where we are now. I have tried to recover from the affair. I have tried to recover from the lies. But when someone lies to you repeatedly over the entire course of the marriage, what do you do? Getting over an A is difficult enough when there is subsequent honesty, but how do I recover when he KEEPS lying!????

I am ready for divorce...I am trying to keep it from happening even though I desperately want out. I am just waiting for the next lie that will pull the rug out from under me.

He has not changed his ways when it comes to lying. There is something at the core that he has not addressed and at this point, why would he? I have stayed married to him, lies, affair, and all. Of course he wants to stay, he has what he wants. His home and kids and the wife that takes care of it all for him.

Does that help at all as far as seeing why I am at the point of Plan B? I don't want to kick him out..i am very willing to find a place to go, but with the kids and his schedule (he travels 2-3 weeks every month) I need to be here to get them to and from school. The weeks that he is home he has to leave the house by 6...the kids don't go to school until 7:30 and he doesn't get home until long after they are out of school. I also told him that at this point I was not ready to make this a legal separation in the hopes that things will work out with counseling.

Sounds like you need the advice of some of the veterans here. I completely understand your frustration. I don't think that kicking him out will help you "straighten him out" but I could be wrong. I am not one of the veterans. I think you need to get to the bottom of all the lying and help setting boundaries. Hopefully the veterans will post soon.

There's no way that he had only an emotional affair with this other woman.

Do you have evidence of their contact? Was it emails?

Regardless, there has been a destruction of your trust and I have a more complete picture right now.

Do you know if he'd be willing to read Surviving an Affair with you?

What committment is he willing to make to save your marriage?

We were hiking with the kids when his cell phone rang. I think the only reason he answered was that his phone was in roam so it didn't show the number that was calling. I could hear a woman's voice...she said "Hey (H's name)...what's up?" And he said "I'm sorry you have the wrong number". She said "oh S^%t....call me later". That's how I found out. I confronted him immediately.

When we got home, I called her and she said they were just friends.
I got online and went through cell phone records. There were some phone calls that were over an hour and a half. They went back for at least 10 months. There were a lot of texts as well.

I will say that he blocked her number on his personal cell. She texted him a few days after the A was uncovered and he told me about it. So I feel he was making an honest effort and that there has been no further contact with her.

To be honest I am over the A. I hardly ever think about it and when I do, it is a fleeting thought. It's over and done with...she is out of the picture and I feel no threat from her. But I don't feel we can have true recovery when he continues to be dishonest.

I don't want to "kick him out" of his own home. But due to his schedule and the fact that I am the primary care-giver for the girls, I don't know how I could be the one to find another place to stay. I don't mind staying with friends over the weekend so he can stay here with the kids..I am flexible and will work with him as far as scheduling goes. He's gone 2-3 weeks out of the month anyways so it won't be that hard to work around.

I did talk to him last night-over the phone since he is out of town. I told him that I was willing to try IF he committed to IC and MC. But I won't tolerate any more lies and if I find out anything else I will file for divorce.

He is not a big reader. I will see if he will read the book you recommended, but I doubt he will read the whole thing. I have given him other books to read, but he reads a chapter or two and then it sits on his bedside table and collects dust...LOL

BTW.....if you have a few moments, you may want to check out some of my other posts...there is a lot more history than what I have included in this thread...

Thanks for the feedback...I was starting to think I was being unreasonable from the prior responses. That's why I called him last night and told him I was ready to try again.

I didn't have the whole picture.

Your H sounds like a man with poor boundaries. But saving things requires effort on his part.

You have every right to demand openness and honesty.

You need to arm yourself with the knowledge from this site.

I firmly believe that a BS has the right to call an end to a marriage from the moment that cheating is revealed. That's your right.

I also believe some marriages can be saved, depending on the waywards, versus others that appear hopeless.

Your H sounds like a man who needs to grow up. My father played the same games for years.

He hasn't really wisened up till recently and that's because his adult children come down on him like a ton of bricks.

Life is too short to be held hostage to someone who can't change because they are flawed as individuals.

You can't change your husband. He has to want to change things himself.

All you can do is carry on with your own things which only YOU can control.

He can't be changed. All you can do is hope he responds to your requests. You need to find a promarriage marriage counselor.

Thanks, baron....here's an update....

I told H Monday evening that I thought we needed to have minimal contact other than to keep up with household issues. Of course, he can see and talk to the kids whenever he wants to. I told him that he needed to find an IC. In the mean time, at least for a couple of weeks, I felt we needed to spend time apart. He has a lot of vacation time that he has accumulated and I think it might be good for him to spend alone time with the girls. I had planned on going back to our hometown (3 hours away). I gave him the choice, though....either he or I could go and he could decide if he wanted to have time with the kids.



here's a little bit of how the conversation went last night...He sent a text message asking if he could talk to the girls. They called him and said goodnight. I can count on my hand in the past 5 years he has called to talk to the girls. Anyways...I knew he must be feeling down so around 11:00 I called him. I guess I felt like maybe I was giving up to easily-being selfish, etc. I need to consider the kids and the history that we have. 13 years is a long time.

So we talked. I told him again that if he doesn't get to the root cause of the lying and deception that we would not make it. I did express that my feelings for him and changed and that if he lies again, they will be completely gone-and so will I. He fluctuated between agreeing that he needed help to sort of blaming me for his lying at times. He said I over-react and am too sensitive. He blames that for not being able to tell me certain things.

A little bit more history. He has struggled with alcoholism in the past which caused a lot of friction between us. He put himself in some very risky situations while drinking and didn't want to tell me because he knew I would be upset about the drinking. That is where a lot of the lying came into play.

Quick example...while in a law enforcement academy for 4 months, I found out a few years later that he went drinking with a classmate (single guy) and two single girls back to their apartment to play pool. When I found out, I was upset. He told me that I was being jealous and unreasonable. I wasn't screaming at him, just told him that it wasn't cool and that if I had done that, he would not have been happy.

So, this is the kind of thing I have dealt with over the years. I keep adding little tidbits so I don't make such long posts, but it helps with the history a little, I think.

Also, the MC had counseled us for over 3 years and up until a few weeks ago, she has never recommended separation. She has always encouraged me to push through. I found her through our church. She is very pro-marriage. I think what is concerning her now is that this is starting to take a physical toll on me. I have auto-immune disease and it has started flaring up lately. In addition to that, my blood pressure has been dangerously high the past 6-8 months. I have started taking meds for it and they are helping. She has not specifically told me to leave, but did say that things need to change. Since he doesn't really go with me, she sends home books and literature, but he doesn't read it. I have been the one doing all the work, it seems.

Polygraph or divorce.

His ability to lie demonstrates the need for backup. Never mind the kids. You are being affected. What kind of mother will they have after he has stripped you down.

Get this done and prevent future hassles.

thanks for the response, imagine...

He is still on a trip...won't be back until Sunday. We went all day without talking on the phone yesterday. He texted me a couple of times. I was polite, but pretty distant. He called around 10:30 last night to say goodnight. We talked for maybe 2 minutes the got off the phone.

Wednesday was a rough day. I was tempted several times to call him because I felt bad for him. He was alone in a hotel room with lots of time to think about what was going on.

Yesterday...not so hard. Actually- I enjoyed the break. When he called I felt nothing. Maybe a little annoyance, but that's about it. I think I am getting past feeling "sorry" for him now. I realize that my habit of not wanting to hurt people was keeping me in an unhealthy situation. I can't allow guilt to keep me here.

I don't know what will happen when he gets home. The more days that pass, the more confident I feel in my decision to get out. I know that miracles can happen so I am not counting out the possibility that there will be a turn-around. I have heard that you can fall back in love with someone. If he can stop lying, who knows....maybe there will be a miracle. Not going to hold my breath, though