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I am taking advice. Taking it to heart.

MEL your skank post hit home yesterday. In positive way. Spoke with WW about how she needs to change the way she thinks about such things. That a man hitting on her or flirting w/ her is really declaring up front what he thinks of her. Easy-sleezy, has no respect for her, thinks she's got no respect for herself....etc etc.

She was upset, not mad, upset as she'd never looked at it that way. Told her she needed to shift the way the feels about such things. That feeling flattered is really a reflection of her own character. Then went on to tell her that any man doing that (starting any sort of relationship in that manner) obviously doesn't respect her. AND was really declaring that from the get-go.
She was upset and cried.
It wasn't about knocking her down. Throwning her A in her face. It was about showing her a way to change her thinking in a manner that's positive.

Mel, you can tell me over and over the burden is on her. I can agree. But in the end if you've got someone who can't find their way back into the light from where they are, and you leave them to do all that alone, you aren't helping them at all.
You can't just tell someone to change and not give them a road map.

She spoke more about her A(s), after realizing that she can trust me. After realizing that my aim is to rebuild the marriage, the trust, and love.

AND THAT HAS BEEN MY POINT ALL ALONG.

I'm not looking for status quo. Nor am I under the impression that you can catch more flies w/ honey.... AND even if "I" feel there was movement in the right direction last night, don't think I'm in any sort of recovery yet. Tonight or tomorrow I'll have to deal with POJA.

SO thanks again for the skank post...



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Things that suck in this BS state of mind:

favorite foods don't taste good
can't listen to music or watch a movie
can't consentrate to work
can't work out
never feel like I'm caring enough for kids (even though I am)
Being alone isn't a good idea, but don't like being around people
Heart races for no reason
Feel like a robot so often, just going through the motions
Fun and happiness aren't a priority

My favorite "holiday" of the year! and I'm not even participating. That's a real bummer.

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Been there, bud.

The only upside is that you lose unwanted pounds.

Other than that, it all sucks.

Surround yourself with support.

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Bad day.
Sat down did some reading. SAA mostly.

Being a unwilling re-tread here, SAA is a formula for getting a marriage back on track.

But what it lacks, what all the MB material lacks is information for the BS to let them know that it's okay to feel how they do. SAA is sterile in that respect. BS's go through hell. They, have feelings they can't descrbe. They don't know if there is something wrong with them. There's no formula for that. There's nothing to tell them, yeah, you are going to have bad days. They will take the form of X, Y, and/or Z.
You are going to feel helpless, no matter how much you empower yourself. You will doubt your self-worth and your every action.
You will sit on a fence in fear, regardless of what your WS does.

Depending on a person's support network, they could be getting all sorts of bad advice.

What's really rough is a support network who clubs you like a baby seal! Or chases you with pitchforks and torches like Frankenstien's monster.


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DD,

I have not clubbed any baby seals (today at least), but I'm not sure what you think support means. This is a group of equals and support means telling you our perspectives from our experience. Support does not mean saying nice things to make you feel better while accomplishing nothing (or worse).

I am sorry you are feeling low. I have been there and it does get easier over time.


Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
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Originally Posted by DaltonDad
What's really rough is a support network who clubs you like a baby seal!

Who is the baby seal?? crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think DD is down on himself again and this site is his punching bag and that's okay.

GG


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Well I do get down. Depression is part of what a BS goes through. As is mistrust, questioning self worth, questioning WS, obsessive thoughts....there's quite a laundry list of feelings and emotions.

Reading another book late last night (NJ Friends), I realized there is a lot in there that supports the feelings a BS goes through.
Almost to a T, describes my emotions. I find the book short on a real way to get the marriage back on track and to keep it there.
I guess a BS must pull from many sources what they need. Churn it all together and come up with a plan that works for them.

Still, knowing all this stuff, and being able to deal with it is another thing.

I did laugh at a passage (because it's ironic). A BS is crying in bed, WS is thinking "oh no here we go again" The WS always want to supress the A and it's consequences, while the BS wants to get it all out, express their feelings. A further point, in normal times its a woman who is more expressive and a man who is more supressive. Yet after an A, regardless of sex, the WS is supressive and the BS expressive.

On the home front WW is being supportive, AND expressive. Still being open and honest. Not getting defensive of me questioning all her actions. Explaining them, showing proof. Being transparent. No, not in recovery. I am just trying to get "our" duck in a row such that we can move in that direction when there is a level of trust I can live with.
No I don't trust her, and she knows that. She realizes why, and IS NOT tossing it back in my lap saying "that's for you to deal with" which was what happened last time.

SO, mini-goal for me today is to try not to obsess too much today. Mini my butt! That's a huge goal.

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It's good you found some comfort in the book. I was the BS but I was the one who was suppressing and my FWH was expressing. I just didn't want anything to do with my H then. We actually went to MC before we found this site. I think we were fortunate to find a MC that knew how to work with us. My H liked this site better. We did the steps here too. So far our R is going very well. I'm glad your WW if making an effort. Do you think she would post here? She could start her own thread.


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thanks gg615....

-----------------------------

begin daily venting rant.

I read things like it takes 2 years to "get over it" Arrggh.
I can tell people that's true. Oh sure some things in the marriage get better. Maybe in that time you become closer to your spouse. But the price is so high.
Regardless of all my personal failings do I really deserve this?

Music I normally listen to, the lyrics will suddenly come shooting out into my brain. Forget that I've heard this song 100 times, This AM, listening to MP3 player here at work, I've got hundreds of songs on it. My Immortal by Evanescence. F- me! Just what I needed. I liked the song for the womans vocalization, just the sound of it. Then it had to get all complicated with lyrics. (laughing at myself...yet again).

Can't sit on the fence forever. But also can't make a choice when you are over-wrought with emotion.

Try to do things with WW, who of course loves it. I swear it's always a win-win for the WS. They go from one relationship where they are having their EN's met....bounce back to the marriage only to have them met again by the truck load.
Don't get me wrong WW is doing everything she should. Even meeting many of my EN's without even knowing what an EN is. YES I gotta get on that pretty soon.
I had asked to have my threads here deleted. But I guess, the MB-Gods don't do that. Hate to introduce WW to MB, then have her see all my emotions laid bare. Not sure I want to share "this" with her. Would make me feel far too vunerable.
So, in a nutshell another rotten day where I can't work, won't be eating much, won't be getting any sleep tonight. Timing is about right for this too. Last time, it was just about 3 week in before I really took a nose dive. Hello nose dive remember me.

Manic and frantic (are those the same thing), sad and sullen (those are the same).
I would never put myself in a postion where I would have an affair, but I do see the appeal of rushing out and doing so. Something different, something you know is seperate and quasi-safe (only because you have no expectations of a real relationship). No, not my thing. Hell most times I have to be hit with a crowbar to even notice a woman is hitting on me. Who's the really dummy.

I'm very glad the kids are doing good. One huge thing I told WW was that if there was a single voice raised regarding this subject in front of the kids I would pack her stuff for her. She's abided by that as well. Not the point, the kdis are doing well. Okay they are being themselves! Just the normal incidents.

You know what really breaks my heart? I do everything for them. But still when I get home, I hardly get even a "Hi Dad" from them. WW comes home it's a race to go see her. That sucks eggs!

The debilitating effects of all this are beyond comprehension. A normal life, then wham!

Hence my daily worry that none of this is worth it.


I read Steve Harley's article about co-dependancy. With a couple of generations of selfish people running around....there is a big need for more of that. More of the selfless giving. Not just husbands and wives....neighbors, friends...(not in my case) but also family.

Lesson learned from sometimes, it's better to keep it all inside. This tame venting is harmless. It doesn't show the darker side of things. What so many BS really feel.


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Anyone ever see a deer (or other animal) that's been hit squarly by a Semi on the highway? You know, that smear that goes for 1/4 mile. That's how I feel is like that deer.

But what's worse, when people drive by, what they feel is revulsion.

Knowing that is almost worse.

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QUESTION:

On really bad days with LB's flying around, what's the best way to move past it?

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In negotiation you name the demon.

If it is a DJ, OA, insult - name it. You do not accept it. Persistence is rewarded by withdrawal in person or response. The trick is to be wary that one is not committing the crime.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Today, I was partialy....no, I was the one commiting the crime.

WW understood my bad day. Then, she made a small comment. Not negative. I was already in a funk. So I tossed her last affair in her face, with something to the effect.

That if I had killed myself (I was in a really really bad state last time), I wouldn't be going through this now and she'd be off with her former lover, and things would be just fine for her.

I admit that was over the line. This crap-ola is tough. I've got a ton of old stuff, plus the new.

WW is still trying. Despite my gloomy days.
Things are totally different. Last time she was head over heals in love.


My question still is, after a shippy comment like that, how do I move forward. I am wrong, but I'm not. I'm entitled (I hate saying that as I feel "entitlement" is a huge problem w/ out society) to have emotions. The hurt and pain I own. I try not to wallow in them. But they are dark emotions and they can (DO) take over.

I'm sorry for my LB but not my bad day.
None of it makes any sense.

ANYONE got any advice w/ this?

What suck is meds make me loopy and bother me worse than not taking them. Working out is really bad, as soon as my heart gets pumping, I get filled with rage. I could sit down and consume massive amounts of booze, but that's a really bad idea.
Tried meditation and therapy last time. Can't meditate, because as soon as I settle down, my mind drifts to ...."stuff".
And Therapy...."why do you feel that way?" "WHY THE HECK DO YOU THINK I FEEL THIS WAY?" Or lets's try meditation..

Sad state of affairs (groan that was a bad pun).....




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I went back to your first post and it looks like you are still in the first couple of weeks. When did your WW establish NC? When did you discover the affair? The first month is a month filled with pain, nausea, inability to focus, and tears. At least that is what I remember. It does get better. The only advice that I can offer that might make it easier for both of you (she is going through pain too) is to try to not do any lovebusters and work on meeting each other emotional needs. I haven't read your entire thread but will also advise you to expose to everyone that may have an influence on your wife as well as OMW or girlfriend if there is one. You also need to get all the details of the affair from your WW. You don't want to find something new out every couple of weeks. New discoveries will reset your recovery clock. Try to go easier on yourself. Don't get your heart pumping so hard if it triggers rage. Try yoga or pilates. Take a walk. You can't avoid negative thoughts at this point. It is just part of the junk. Just try not to run her off with your negative moods. You do have a right to be outraged but it won't make your marriage stronger. She has to go through withdrawal first. Come here and vent instead.


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Originally Posted by DaltonDad
Anyone ever see a deer (or other animal) that's been hit squarly by a Semi on the highway? You know, that smear that goes for 1/4 mile. That's how I feel is like that deer.

But what's worse, when people drive by, what they feel is revulsion.

Knowing that is almost worse.

Yup, know the feeling. I'm in my second month and don't feel like that anymore. Not sure when it went away. I felt like poop on my husband's shoe that he scraped off and tossed aside most of last month. My friends described me as run over and left for dead by my husband when they saw me last month. Somewhere along the way it went away and I didn't even realize it until I read your analogy. Just keep getting up...one foot in front of the other...you can do it....


Over it.
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WW was in NC before I knew of the A. I found out because she got pregnent. I found out about a month after NC.

I know most everything about the A. I suppose a BS can never know it "all". But what is left is really WW's feelings and emotions, not details. I know most of her feelings. Even though she's not told me.

What makes this hard is that this is the second A. There are times I want to end it.

But, despite me alter-ego as a baby seal getting clubbed, there are a lot of positive things in my marriage. Not just the kids.
That's what makes this so hard. yeah WW messed up. BIG TIME.
TWICE no less.
But, as they say "with all this horse manure there's gotta be a horse in here someplace"

OR

For all my pain and suffering, I can still see things working out.

It's lot of work. Work I'm not really totally able to do right now. The degree of detachment needed is huge. I can't do that right now. Hence my really bad days feeling like road pizza.

I worry a lot about running WW off with my emotions. For her part, she seems to be taking it. But I'm not sure for how long she will continue.
She asked me today, why don't we just get a D? Then you won't have to deal with all this.
Told her, I will still have to deal with it, just more alone than I am now. She feels I'm using her as a punching bag at times. Even though I don't throw her A in her face screaming WHY WHY WHY. Just my low feelings make her feel my motivation is to hurt her.
That's an issue, as I usually ask "WHY is this about YOU?" "It's about me and my feelings, not you and your actions."

That's me being my most respectful. I'm in pain, but not throwing her errors in her face, just asking for her support with the betrayal. Sorta a razors edge.

Bad boy, I did grab a glass of wine.
Kids are watching a movie. Don't need Daddy tonight. ~sad~

WW isn't happy with my feelings about her job. I don't like her going to work where she is now. But, not sure any change of job would make a difference. Yeah, she changed jobs a few years ago.

She hurt me today when she said, "I took this job, because I needed a career, in case you ever left me." Things like that never enter my mind.
I guess it's like my whole approach to money and material things...not a priority. I've worked since I was 13. Moved away from home at 18. Been supporting myself since. Never relied on anyone. As an electrical engineer, it's easier to not worry about money, but I worked for all that before I met her.
Even if I lost my job I wouldn't worry. I'm not afraid of loss of material stuff. Maybe that's a LB for her. But she's never had a want or need not provided for.

funny people who work hard for what they get seem to be less worried about the loss. Not sure why.

LOL WW is pissed at me because I lost about 10lbs in the past couple of weeks. Not because I didn't need to, not because it's an issue, more because she's always trying to loose a little bit.
I told her I didn't recommend my weight loss program. Too many side effects. Funny....but not really.

One more funny, turned on the radio tonight while I was making dinner for the kids, that frigging song by Nelly from 2004 was on
OVER AND OVER. WHAT THE HECK!!!???? That song was on the radio like every 20 mins when WW had her first affair. Couldn't escape it. It was everywhere!!! That song should be banned.
Sat and listened to it shaking my head. There was another one from back then, a country tune about two guys in a bar, one upset about cheating....can't remember it...good thing!

Guess I should check on the kids....

hope no one is really reading this, it's just my outlet. The only safe thing.


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DD,
Are you starting to feel resentful and that is causing you to snap back at your WW? Maybe things you were suppressing are starting to come out now. You made a comment in one of your earlier posts that you thought sometimes it's better to keep things in - but you know when you do this you become a bubble ready to burst. You also wrote you read it takes about two years "to get over it." I think you'll find some of us here will say you never got over it. You learn to deal with it and put it away. I'm in my second year and I don't feel I got over it. You can't erase the memories implanted in your brain by a WS. It's all in the choices you make in how you deal with it. Also DD - I disagree about you not wanting your WW to see how vulnerable you are. You own these feelings you've written about. The one thing I've learned from my experience is that I don't want to hold back from my FWH. This could have contributed to my M problems in the first place. I don't hold back anymore and neither does my H.



GG


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GG

Yes and No as to me being resentful. yes it hurts, no I don't feel hate.
I do agree that my supressing things isn't helpful. Many years ago I wasn't the greatest husband. No A's or anything like that. I just wasn't what I could have been. I hate myself for that. But, I did a 180. I've changed. tried to do/be everything for WW. She became the ultimate taker.
Then just took it all for granted. Then had two A's.

I guess, I need to start talking about that. Then a few other things. You are right about the bubble thing. That's totally me.

I was over her A from 4 years ago. In fact, I even thought to myself this past winter while WW was in the midst of the most current A. that I was glad I didn't have to worry about such things any more. That's vomit inducing irony.

I'll try talking more. But not so much as to be a pest.

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Quote
In negotiation you name the demon.

If it is a DJ, OA, insult - name it. You do not accept it. Persistence is rewarded by withdrawal in person or response. The trick is to be wary that one is not committing the crime.


I like the way you put that Imagine. I said the same thing earlier using many times more words.

Regrettably, DD is in transmit mode.


Me 49 SAHD; W 41 SAHM; DS3, DS4.
Seven year affairage.
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