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Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
She told ZW that she was sober when she was with the OM.

She planned to be with the OM on his birthday.
She could have stopped.
She hung out with the OM
she could have stopped.
She got in her car and drove to his place.
Zen Wolf called her at 11:00
She could have stopped.
When she got to his place she went inside.
She could have stopped.
She went to the OMs bedroom.
She could have stopped.
She/he took her clothes off
She could have stopped.
Her husband Called her at 3:00
She lied to him about where she was.
She could have stopped.
She got into bed with the OM
She could have stopped.
They had sex.


At every point she had the ability to not go through with it.
She knew at every turn, what this would do to the husband that loves her. She knew this would drive a stake through his heart. And when they were having sex, she thought to herself.

"I will just ask Zen Wolf for another chance."

How many of us have a WS that could have and should have stopped but didn't? I feel badly for Zen Wolf. I can't imagine going through the pain of discovery over and over again. I hope I don't have to. It is his decision though. Only he knows how many times he is willing to get back up. Only time will tell if Coho wants the marriage. It is just so painful to imagine what she is doing to him. I wonder how she justifies it... But, I have wondered how my own husband justified it and have no answer for that either. I am just happy that he appears to want our marriage now and seems to be willing to work on it with me.


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Originally Posted by NervousNewbie
KiwiJ, wouldn't you say that every word of your posts could be applied to you during your own false recovery? Which was every bit as public as this one? You defended breaking NC on this board -- in fact refused to come clean, to the point that another poster had to be the one to tell your poor husband. I'm very glad that your husband gave you a second (third? fourth?) chance, but you no more deserved it than coho does ... though I will say that the fog with this one is very, very thick, and her behavior has been extremely cruel.

I have serious doubts about coho, too, but this post in particular was just way over the top, IMO. There are many WS's on this board that have behaved perfectly abominably and still recovered. Like, for example, you.

NN, lol, for a "Newbie" you sure know a lot about me but that's neither here nor there, you've obviously lurked for a long time or been here before under another name.

I was very aware when I was "venting" to Coho of my own background. A lot of that venting came from disappointment rather than anger. My situation WAS different. I hadn't kept in contact with the OM. In fact I hadn't seen him for two years. There was no physical contact when I did see him. None. My H did forgive me, you are right. He forgave me seeing the OM again. He didn't have any SF to forgive. He wouldn't have forgiven that. My recovery wasn't a "FR". We had recovered. I don't recall ever "defending breaking NC". Quite the opposite. I do know that I behaved cowardly and with very little integrity in not telling my H. I'm the first to admit that.

I also take exception to the inference my H gave me a "second, third, fourth" chance. My A was over before our d-day and there was no more contact ever. Then there was the contact two years later.

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Originally Posted by MyRevelation
Originally Posted by cohosalmon
I don't want to lose ZW. I want ZW. that is all I want.

OK ... "Talk's cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey" ... are your ready to put your money (and kids) where your mouth is???

In exchange for this "one last chance", would you ...

Offer ZW a Post-Nuptial Agreement, whereby if ZW will take you back and give you a chance ... should you break NC with this OM or start an A with another OM, you will waive right to custody of your joint children, AND walk away from the M with ONLY your personal belongings.

Would you sign such a Post-Nup???

yes, in an instant.

I just downloaded a GPS tracker to my iPhone.

I talked to Harley this morning.

I'll be downloading spectorsoft shortly.


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Originally Posted by stillstanding2
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
She told ZW that she was sober when she was with the OM.

She planned to be with the OM on his birthday.
She could have stopped.
She hung out with the OM
she could have stopped.
She got in her car and drove to his place.
Zen Wolf called her at 11:00
She could have stopped.
When she got to his place she went inside.
She could have stopped.
She went to the OMs bedroom.
She could have stopped.
She/he took her clothes off
She could have stopped.
Her husband Called her at 3:00
She lied to him about where she was.
She could have stopped.
She got into bed with the OM
She could have stopped.
They had sex.


At every point she had the ability to not go through with it.
She knew at every turn, what this would do to the husband that loves her. She knew this would drive a stake through his heart. And when they were having sex, she thought to herself.

"I will just ask Zen Wolf for another chance."

How many of us have a WS that could have and should have stopped but didn't? I feel badly for Zen Wolf. I can't imagine going through the pain of discovery over and over again. I hope I don't have to. It is his decision though. Only he knows how many times he is willing to get back up. Only time will tell if Coho wants the marriage. It is just so painful to imagine what she is doing to him. I wonder how she justifies it... But, I have wondered how my own husband justified it and have no answer for that either. I am just happy that he appears to want our marriage now and seems to be willing to work on it with me.

I have no justification. ZW has no reason to believe me. I don't know that he can do this again, but I'm going to anyway. I'm going to do everything to keep him. everything. every day. I wrote a new NC letter, drove to OM's house today with ZW and taped it to his door with OM's house key in it. I know that isn't enough.


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cohosalmon
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Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by MyRevelation
OK ... "Talk's cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey" ... are your ready to put your money (and kids) where your mouth is???

In exchange for this "one last chance", would you ...

Offer ZW a Post-Nuptial Agreement, whereby if ZW will take you back and give you a chance ... should you break NC with this OM or start an A with another OM, you will waive right to custody of your joint children, AND walk away from the M with ONLY your personal belongings.

Would you sign such a Post-Nup???

absolutely. where did you get it? one online that we can have notarized? link please?


Best question on this thread!

With all the negative chatter.... it runs the risk of getting lost.

Coho, What say you?

When I was asked this question, I told my wife YES.
I also followed through with it ASAP!

So, what say you??


thanks,
cohosalmon
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Originally Posted by InLikeFlynn
Let me try and get some of this straight.

You have been boinking the OM all this time or just in contact?

Also ZW read your secret email account...did you give him access? and the talk about marriage was that recent???

just in contact. yes, he has access. I did start deleting some of it but stopped, and went and sat with him while he was reading it until my call with Harley.


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cohosalmon
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Kiwi ... I'm mostly a lurker. I do read up on people's post histories when I find them interesting. My memory may have been fuzzy on what happened in your case -- sorry if I thought the broken contact was more extensive than it actually was.

Coho ... I was skimming over this thread again just now, and reminded me of why I found your posts a little insincere -- glib answers, a lot of questions you just skirted around, a lot of lip service to doing the right thing without any real action or plans. What are you going to do about your work situation -- which is clearly not working for you and especially not for your husband? Your drinking? What is the plan of action for being 100% transparent and accountable from this point forward?

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Originally Posted by Lostin2008
All you want is ZW? Is that all you wanted when you were having sex with the OM?

You are a pathological lier and do not deserve ZW. Give him everything and leave him alone.

if ZW asks that of me, I will.


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cohosalmon
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Coho,

He should still send you away till you "get it"...

Give him everything and try to earn it all back.

Only unconditional surrender should be accepted now.

WHILE you were here talking af how to make ZW feel safe again you were PLANNING to betray him AGAIN with OM!

NOTHING you say should be believed. ONLY your ACTIONS count! What are you going to DO?

A hundred years or so ago ZW could have shot you on the spot and nobody would have batted an eye!

Mark

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To be clear, there were multiple boinkings in the previous two FRs which I only found out about this morning. I had to basically pry the email address out of her, then she ran down to her computer and started deleting emails. There was a continued effort to stay in contact, then meet up. At one point he stopped by our house while I was having dinner with a friend - they kissed, here at our house with our children inside, but no boinking. Each of these first two of the last three FRs involved a plan to bide her time with me while preparing to move out and get married. I didn't get to read the emails encompassing the most recent FR, since she has been posting here, because she deleted the emails. I have no reason to believe otherwise, but she says Saturday night was the first boinking during the last FR. FR #7?

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Quote
I'm not in control. I have no ego. I have no pride.
That's a laugh.

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Quote
and the talk about marriage was that recent???

That's what gets me I suppose. The whole time you were on here posting about recovery with Zen, you were exchanging emails with OM about marriage? skeptical That's cold.

So what is it they say in court? Were you lying then or are you lying now?

If I were Zen, and I'm not, I would not settle for your promises again without seeing a TRUE brokenness in you. If you are a believer, I would get on your knees and cry out to God, repenting for your betrayal, and asking for His help to restore your marriage. He can you know. Even if you're not a Christian, He'll still welcome you.

I forgave my DH for what he did to me, but it didn't happen right away. But one thing that did it for me is that he became truly repentent, humble, and willing to do WHATEVER was necessary to rebuild our marriage. And trust me... it wasn't his words OR HIS TEARS that I believed. It was his actions.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I'm not in control.

At least not over your own selfish desires...



Quote
I have no pride.

Certainly not in your marriage , ZW or even yourself...

And no self respect either...


Quote
That's a laugh.

It's a cryin' shame is what it is...

Mark

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Coho,

Can you please tell me/us?

1. Why did you do it? And please don't say "I don't know, it was stupid" etc. etc. I mean really, why?

2. What were you thinking, and please no, "I wasn't thinking." I mean did you have any thoughts about ZW when you were in the act of coitus?

3. Why should ZW beleive you really want him and only him, and please no, "I don't know; he shouldn't, I am not credible."

The pat answers are what I would expect, and they are a ploy for sympathy and an avoidance manuever. I mean, can you really answer the above honestly?

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This is so sad and pathetic that I almost think you have to be making this stuff up. Except that your husband is destroyed. I thought you were a flip, glib little sh*t from the moment you came on here.

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Originally Posted by sickwithworry
Coho,

Can you please tell me/us?

1. Why did you do it? And please don't say "I don't know, it was stupid" etc. etc. I mean really, why?

Because I was still in contact and wasn't letting go of those feelings

2. What were you thinking, and please no, "I wasn't thinking." I mean did you have any thoughts about ZW when you were in the act of coitus?

I was confused and felt like giving up and was not being honest with myself or ZW or anyone.

3. Why should ZW beleive you really want him and only him, and please no, "I don't know; he shouldn't, I am not credible."

I don't expect him to but I will do what it takes and will keep doing it until I'm 6 ft under.

The pat answers are what I would expect, and they are a ploy for sympathy and an avoidance manuever. I mean, can you really answer the above honestly?


I don't expect any sympathy at all - I have done nothing to warrant sympathy or empathy.


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cohosalmon
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Originally Posted by cohosalmon
Originally Posted by MyRevelation
Originally Posted by cohosalmon
I don't want to lose ZW. I want ZW. that is all I want.

OK ... "Talk's cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey" ... are your ready to put your money (and kids) where your mouth is???

In exchange for this "one last chance", would you ...

Offer ZW a Post-Nuptial Agreement, whereby if ZW will take you back and give you a chance ... should you break NC with this OM or start an A with another OM, you will waive right to custody of your joint children, AND walk away from the M with ONLY your personal belongings.

Would you sign such a Post-Nup???

yes, in an instant.

I just downloaded a GPS tracker to my iPhone.

I talked to Harley this morning.

I'll be downloading spectorsoft shortly.

Bolding mine

I think you should give Zen your cell phone login so that he can change the password. I think you both should call the cell phone company and set up the account so that you can't do diddly squat with it, only Zen can make changes/additions to any type of service or upgrade. This is a start.

I think you should call the Harleys and have Zen listen in/record the conversation. This is a start.

I don't think that installing any kind of software to your computer will do anything. You design websites, right? Or something of the sort? Maybe I'm giving you too much credit (I work in the tech field and loads of designers/programmers don't know how to use Word) but I suspect you can/will find any way possible around these technologies. You had a "secret" email account. Please. My 11 year old nephew has a "secret" account. @@


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Originally Posted by Mark1952
Coho,

He should still send you away till you "get it"...

Give him everything and try to earn it all back. I did just offer to stay out at my mother's house. he has that option

Only unconditional surrender should be accepted now.

WHILE you were here talking af how to make ZW feel safe again you were PLANNING to betray him AGAIN with OM!

NOTHING you say should be believed. ONLY your ACTIONS count! What are you going to DO? I have called his mother, father, brother and some key friends and apologized. I have set up a GPS on my iPhone - I just went outside to initialize where I am at. I will turn it on whenever in the car, call him while in the car and talk to him, and communicate as much as I can while at work. I will install spector software as recommended by Harley. We have another call on Wednesday.

A hundred years or so ago ZW could have shot you on the spot and nobody would have batted an eye!

Mark


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cohosalmon
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How on earth does "I was still in contact" answer the question WHY you did it? The WHY question is about why you lied to your husband. Saying that you lied to your husband is not answering the question, it is just repeating the question. We know that you lied.

Similarly, "I wasn't letting go of my feelings" is another blinding flash of the obvious. We know that you weren't willing to put your selfish feelings aside for even a second. The question is, WHY did you do this?

ZW was asked about a week ago what his biggest need from you was. Can you answer this in a thoughtful way?

"I WANT TO KNOW WHY THIS WILL BE DIFFERENT. Top question. Question number ONE."

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Originally Posted by RooGirl7
[b
I just downloaded a GPS tracker to my iPhone.

I talked to Harley this morning.

I'll be downloading spectorsoft shortly. [b/]

Bolding mine

I think you should give Zen your cell phone login so that he can change the password. I think you both should call the cell phone company and set up the account so that you can't do diddly squat with it, only Zen can make changes/additions to any type of service or upgrade. This is a start.

I think you should call the Harleys and have Zen listen in/record the conversation. This is a start.

I don't think that installing any kind of software to your computer will do anything. You design websites, right? Or something of the sort? Maybe I'm giving you too much credit (I work in the tech field and loads of designers/programmers don't know how to use Word) but I suspect you can/will find any way possible around these technologies. You had a "secret" email account. Please. My 11 year old nephew has a "secret" account. @@ [/quote]

I did give him the cell phone log-in/password this morning so he can see the larger phone records.


thanks,
cohosalmon
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