sorry but your h is one phucked up dude

"you distroyed his relationship with his son"..............
he is blaming you for his inappropriate actions and giving his son NO credit for having character or morals. i say BRAVO for your son. he is more of a man then his father will ever be.

"he had to make a list of pros and cons"????????...........
WTH is that. after all this time he doesn't KNOW where he wants to be. it obviously isn'y with you and your boys. what a dips#!t

"pretty sure".......... tell the jerk thanks but no thanks. you need a man who KNOWS what and where he wants to be. not a school boy

i am sorry that you ended up with such a nitwit. you have given him more chances then his dumb a$$ deserves.

slap him with court papers and see ho whe blames you for that.

one of the problems is that his ow doesn't want him full time either. that's why he keps trying to hang on to you

Don't waiver.

You are right not to trust him. He has EARNED your MISTRUST.

THANK YOU, EVERYONE WAS RIGHT!

I dealt with his ambivalence a few more days and he never sent the email of NC.

Finally I wrote to her. I told her she couldn't buy my daughter's affection with little presents because she would never love her because she was taking her daddy away. She caused our son to tell his dad to get the f**k out of the house. Her "unconditional love for him" (a phrase she used a lot with him) had gotten him rejected by his family and friends. And don't blame me because I didn't have the A, I just was finally honest about it. And don't say it's about her kids because I gave them a chance to have a relationship "just about the kids" and it failed miserably, culminating in a secret phone to share pictures of her body parts and provocative text messages none of which were about the kids...

After I sent it, my H called me. He said she accused me of calling her vulgar names and threatening her in the email (which I didn't do of course) and she said she was going to talk to my state licensing board for unprofessional conduct!! Fortunately I sent a blind copy to my work computer showing I never said anything like that. When H heard that and looked at the letter, I guess that was the final straw. Perhaps he saw her for what she was.

I truly don't believe he would have done this unless I held his feet to a very large fire. I am sorry everyone had to know, but even then, he couldn't break up with her. It took her threatening me unjustly for him to send the email of NC.

H has asked to stay with me. He promises never to talk to her again and she sent me an email at his request stating she will never contact him again about anything.

I have a deep feeling of emptiness and ambivalence. It took such great lengths and extreme measures to get him to do this. Clearly it is all about him right now. He says he loves me and is totally committed to me and will be a "different H." It is really hard to reach into the depths of my soul and find love for him there. But finally, I saw him cry on my shoulder, not hers.

It is bittersweet and it is no victory but at least it is resolution-I hope.

I WISH I WOULD HAVE DONE THIS MONTHS AGO! It would have been so much easier to rebuild our relationship if I hadn't had to suffer so long. I truly believe he would not have done this unless I took action. The attorney wasn't enough, throwing him out wasn't enough.

YOU WERE ALL ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
It's been 9 days. He is more loving, more transparent. I won't know until the cell phone bill comes whether he is being honest.

Sorry I've been gone so long, I've had trouble logging in.

DO NOT TRUST HIM!!!!!!!

If he is going to come out of this fog, and try to heal his M with you then HE has a lot of work to do. You are here at this site. Are you reading the books recommended here? Will he? Can you guys do a MB's weekend? He will fail, he has had too much practice at it. What are your boundaries? Does he know them? Do not waiver on them? If you really want to heal this M, now is when you have to be tough. You have to insist on being treated right. He must be 100% transparent, reveal everything to you, all passwords, all phone lists, complete access to his cell phone without anything deleted, so you can double check it, he can sit down with you and show you when detailed calling comes in that it matches everything on his phone without anything missing. This is his job to help you so that you can rebuild trust. He has no C with OW, you establish jointly if, how, any visitation with the OC will take place. You both need to be in IC and MC, and your kids may need the opportunity also. If he wants to heal his relationship with your wonderful son, then he needs to take the steps to prove to your son that he can treat you right and repair the damage he caused.

Don't worry about her threatening you professionally. My licensing board won't give two figs about OW bullspeak. Only if I violate my professional conduct, and telling a Ho interloping in my M to jump in the creek and stay away from my family won't do it.

Stay strong and keep reading. I hope I have fixed my log in problems and will check in on you later. Oh...If he is going to pursue any kind of ongoing C with OC, then they all need to have DNA tests done. And you need to protect your COM financially from OW when she files for CS from your H. If there is not an order for CS in place for your COM first then they will calculate all his income to them first. If you have a CS order in place for your COM then she can only get CS for her OC after your CS is deducted from his income. Protect your COM, let her worry about providing for hers.

Fled

Thanks Fled,
We were out of town so I'm back now. His phone bill came and there are no calls to and from her numbers, assuming I know all of them. I have his passwords, assuming I have all his email addresses. I am checking and will continue to do so. He is still somewhat defensive at times when I look.

He is being loving and affectionate. He definately has learned to see when I am uncomfortable or down and calls me right away. Whether it is genuine concern for me or fear that I have found something or have changed my mind, I don't know but I guess it is good either way that he notices my feelings now.

He is in IC and so am I. I gave him the names of some MC and told him to set something up with one of them. I think he needs to show some initiative.

I did see an empty draft to her on his phone and a text to her number that he says were mistakes. I made it clear to him that if he ever contacts her again it's over, no more second, third... chances. So I am going with him on this. I am reading the MB and other books and talking to people. He is at least reading a little.

As far as the OC, there is no DNA and his name is not on the BC her H's name is. She has let her H back in the house. Without DNA or his name on the BC, she can try to come after my H for CS but it would be hard. Then she would have to tell her kids and give up partial custody of them to get CS. In my state, if you don't have some benefit of contact with the kids, you don't pay CS. They have kept this a secret from her kids so far. I think if they were going to tell them, she would have already done it as a way to pull at his heartstrings harder when things were very tense a couple months ago. I don't think she wants to give up any custody of them.

They could take this deeper underground. But I think she wanted to marry him and was trying to string him along until I threw him out then she could have him. She benefited all along from being the "kind supportive" one (the only one who understands me) while I was the neurotic wife. When I threw him out and told his family and friends and he still didn't leave me for her, perhaps she got it... Besides, she is living with her husband again but has a new boyfriend! I think he saw who she really was with the meaningless threats to me.

I also know that I have been seriously lied to over and over when things seemed to be over before. So I am wary-I think! Thanks to all and to Fled for your advice and strenght! I will keep you posted.

How are you doing? How are things going? Have you made it to MC yet or still working on IC stuff first? Is he maintaining 100% NC? He doesn't have to like your "snooping" as he may refer to it, but trust me, your snooping doesn't come anywhere close to his violation of your trust, your M, your vows, his responsibility to you, or his COM. He will get over it, or you don't need someone like him. This is one of the requirements for rebuilding trust. He didn't break by just a single act in a single moment and he can't regain it that way either.

Fled

Yesterday was the one month anniversary of NC. So far so good, at least I haven't caught anything. He says it's over. We started MC and he is going to IC weekly.

He actually said in MC that it was 90% "chemistry" (read lust) and 10% discontent with our marriage that made him do it. That was one of the best things I've heard. At least he is getting some insight! Before he was re-writing history so it was all the marriage's fault!

I asked him if he had gone a month without talking to her before and he hadn't! I hope it's true.

You were so right. I should have told everyone a couple months ago. Immediately after I found out would have been too soon because I didn't know what I wanted and he sure had no idea what he wanted.

Now he sees how she was messing with his head. Not to make excuses but she was very manipulative. Until he saw her accusing me of threatening her (and I could prove I hadn't) he couldn't see her except "on a pedestal" (his words!) Through IC he saw that his world with her was a fantasy and if he left me for her and married her, the lustful text messages and pictures from her would stop and they would talk about who will cook dinner and pick up the kids just like every married couple. The "chemistry" would be gone... And I made it clear it was get rid of her or divorce from me. And I really did mean it and our family, his kids and his parents and all of our friends thought he was crazy at best...

Pray for me in whatever way. Thanks so much to all. I'll keep you posted. He said some interesting things in MC (should be able to put marriage back together in a couple months!?!?) But it's progress!

OH, and the kids... First, I don't believe they are his. One of the twins looks exactly like her son who is the child of her husband. You can have twins with different fathers. The other might possibly have some resemblance to my H but it's a stretch.. I think that she is reluctant to do DNA because she knows too...

No contact with them either. They were completely unable to keep their relationship about "the kids" only... The kids were always an excuse for their lust. But hopefully we will never know for sure...

Don't give up on the IC to early. My H spent every week going for over six months, it helped him tremendously, which in turn helps every one else in the family. He had to fix himself so we could begin to repair the M.
Good luck, keep reading, stay focused.

blessings

fled

Have you exposed to people your husband trusts? HIs family? His friends? ie: people who can help keep him on track?

You can not allow your hurt to be concealed .sp? by a lie.
You need the support of people who will encourage you WH to keep his nose clean

Hi - I have been reading your thread and was wondering if you ever had an in-depth conversation with the OW's H. That was a game-changer for me! My H. was so spooked because I knew so much more. My H. had lied about him all along.

Thanks!
It has been 6 weeks now and I think there has been NC. We have been to MC and each of us to IC. Very instructive. Just learned that we got this arguing pattern. He would do something that reminded me of his lies. Spending a long time at the computer after bedtime, texting all the time, escaping to "drive around" to call her... I would get mad because it triggered a bad memory. He would get mad at me because I was "upsetting the kids" with my anger and turning it around to my behavior being the problem. I got him to at least see it was his affair that hurt our kids, not my angry reaction to it, no matter how loud my anger was... I always saw that but he never did. It was always easier for him for our difficulties to be about "my anger" rather than "his behavior, the affair".

Anyway, I did not talk to her husbsnd. I wish now I had. She had told my H that she lived with her husband for 8 years and never once had sex with him!! and my H believed it!! The guy knew he wasn't the father of the kids but put his name on the BC and treated tham as his own. Now, he isn't the touchy-feely, involved dad that my H would be, but was doing the best he could. He even tolerated my H going to the twins birthday party with all his family there knowing my H was allegedly their father and allowed it and was even decent to him! So to me, the guy isn't the useless jerk the OW wanted my H to believe. He is nicer than I would be for sure!

I would have contacted her sooner too. Until she took what I wrote and turned it around to make it look like I threatened her and she was an innocent victim of my anger (a behavior she had done before but my H didn't believe before) my WH would not have seen her for the manipulative liar she was.

So, I hope people gain strength to take matters into their own hands when the time is right. I would not have done this the first 3 months of discovery. But I wish I would have done it a month or two sooner. I truly don't believe he would have seen the light if I had not done this. (Thrown him out and wrote a letter to the OW that she turned around to wuit herself.)

I also wish I would have talked to the husband, but I don't think I could have contacted him easily. It's too late now. If he contacts her again-it's over. If he doesn't-it doesn't matter.

BUT, now he misses his "kids" and wants to be in touch with them.. A new post to follow....

Hi there Push,

I lived a little of this. My XH didn't have children with the OW but he sat on the fence for 2 1/2 years. I went through hell every day of those 2 1/2 years. I pray that you don't have to live like that, but I don't see him jumping off the fence anytime soon. You are going to have to insist on NC. When he's refusing to leave and telling you all the things you long to hear, insist on his actions to back up his words. Tell him that you deserve to have all of a marriage not the piddly remnants he's been giving you. It's going to be hard as hell but you can do it. You're marriage depends on it. Even if you can't keep the marriage, you can at least have some peace.

Believe me, I didn't think I could live without my husband. I still HATE what the divorce did to me and the kids, but I was able to finally sleep. I could relax in my own home and I didn't have to worry about what he was doing ever again. When you need the courage to make the hard demands, remember my words and know that life will move on and happiness is out there waiting for you to find it.

Good luck to you.

Loni

It's 2 months of NC. I actually made it halfway through the day before I realized it was the 2 month anniversary of NC.

HOw do I know it's NC???

He has 2 kids (twins) with the OW. He has had NC with them because he was completely addicted to her sexually and absolutely could not establish a relationship with her that wasn't continual sexual flirting.

I feel for him not seeing the kids but they don't know he is their father. Our children do not know they have half sisters (there is no DNA however so no one knows for sure.) I don't see any benefit to continuing the relationship with them.

He used to pick them up from after school and play with them at the park for an hour or two a couple times a week. They thought he was "mommy's friend from work". If he never sees them again he will be a pleasant memory for them, no more. If we well them they will always resent him for disrupting their lives and also not marrying their mother. Not to mention the affect on our kids (who know about the A but not the kids.)

It is unique I think because the OW doesn't want child support. I think there are a couple of reasons. Perhaps she doesn't want the DNA test... Perhaps she doesn't want to give up her control. In our state if we payed CS we would have legal rights to them part time. Perhaps she doesn't want everyone to know. She is still married to her H who is listed as their father.

Do you think this will last? I think it's best for all to leave well enough alone. Fewer people are hurt.

Ah, well unless your state is different she probably is past the time her H can dispute paternity. NC is far less confusing for the OC in your case. They HAVE a daddy already. OW was just using the OC to continue the A with your H.

How is the M going now that there is NC?

The marrige is going better with NC for sure. I don't see anyone benefit from him contacting the kids. Hey have a daddy. She can't be trusted.

But it is eating him up. He says his counselor thinks it's ok to thave 2 daddies. I think that's BS.

I know he loves playing with the kids as he is a big kid himself.

The way I see it, he is the only one who benefits from telling everyone. He gets to play with the kids. They are happy the way they are. She is a good mother, they have a father. Why cause more hurt. She doesn't want CS.

Am I being selfish here?

No, I don't think you are being selfish...I think your WH is. So what if he enjoys playing with the kids, there isn't even DNA evidence they ARE his kids. Plus sneaking behind your back and MOWH's back is WRONG and a continuation of the betrayal on both sides!

The counselor always thinks it's ok to have two daddies. It's how they deal with divorced parents and step parents. It doesn't have anything to do with this mess. This mess was created by adultery on both parents parts. In most states after two years have passed and paternity isn't challenged the H remains the one responsible for the CS. The only way for her to get your H to pay CS is to prove that H isn't and divorce. Let them work on their own M. Remain NC. Your H needs to understand that those children do not think they have 2 daddies, their parents are still M'ed and him coming in to be a daddy now as an interloper would not be in their best interest. (I don't care what the counselor thinks, mine thought I should be happy to have an OC in my life and welcome it home with my COM.... I don't think so!!!)

You are not being selfish, he needs to just walk away, He can have a parenting relationship if they seek him out when they are twenty. As long as they don't bring their mother along!

Fled

Thanks, you know I really did give them 6 months to figure out how to have a relationship "just about the kids" and they demonstrated they couldn't. Now to think they could is just more than I can get my head around. All I can think of are the seductive, lewd text messages the week before the end... None were about the kids... It's not my fault, they had a chance.

I asked him once if he was a little angry with her because she couldn't keep control of herself and develop a relationship just about the kids. He said no, it was both of them, not just her. I guess that's honest. But if he can't see that she was seducing him all the time and using the kids as bait, there is no way she can be trusted. And left to himself, he chose what felt good rather than what was right.

He said once he was a friendly caring guy and couldn't talk to her just about the kids because of who he was. I guess I'll remind him he said that.

I just don't see how contacting her and her kids would benefit my kids, especially my 15 year old son...

So to look back at the beginning of this whole string, the answer is no, they can't remain "friends". But boy is this hard...

Oh I know that one quite well. It took my H a loooong time to figure out that as long as he had sex with xOW she thought they were in an R. Once he finally stopped that part, it was harder for her to justify in her mind what she meant to him (though believe me she tried). It still took 2 years after the sex stopped for her to "get it". Now we have C with the OC as a family. Before that, it was easier for him to not make waves. Sigh... would have been easier for ME if he had.

[quote]He said once he was a friendly caring guy [\quote]

Then he needs to prove it. And if it's true, then he will do everything 100% to fix his M to you and be responsible to his COM,, the OW and her COM with her H do not figure in to making it possible for him to be the "Good guy" if he is hurting you.

Fled