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Originally Posted by LawfulGood
Laughing this morning...

Finally, after almost 18 years of marriage I took the ring off my finger. Didn't want to before we told the kiddos...but they know, so it was off last night for first time since she slipped on my finger at the isle. yes, took off to work out, shower, swim, etc., but this was really first time in forever that ring was not on my finger...

So this morning I tell my brother I need someone to be with me all the time. Lock me in dungeon. And I tell him to please take the ring and do something with it.

So he asks me for it this morning and we both think of Lord of the Rings...my prescious! We are laughing and giggling right now. It was hard to give to him...but it must be. The ring has power. To Mordor!

That is so great!

I was also sitting here laughing too, although i am by myself this morning, so i am laughing alone.

I was thinking how funny it is that everybody else is running around, getting ready for church, giving mom breakfast in bed, putting on the roast etc.

And here we are, a couple of grisled tough dudes...on a marriage building website....talking about our "feelings....Bwaaaahhhhh"


FUNNY!!!!

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Not so grisled. At least you guys give me hope that are still decent, honest men who take their vows seriously and put family first out there.

Stay strong LG. I know what and how you feel about the whole rescue addiction thing. The last time I spoke to my H he started crying but tried to hide it since we were over the phone (it was only the second time in 9 yrs that this has happened), I couldn't sleep for days and actually considered getting on plane to fly 2500 miles while I was 37 weeks prego to try and get him back. Glad I didn't but I still heavily contemplated it.

Tighten up the chains my friend!

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Originally Posted by babyonboard
Not so grisled. At least you guys give me hope that are still decent, honest men who take their vows seriously and put family first out there.

Don't know about you LG but Bob's compliment helped me this morning. Thanks BOB!

I am such a dog like person....All you have to do is scratch me behind the ears every once in awhile, tell me you like my cooking and that you think i am a good man and i'll cook for you, clean up the dishes, wash your clothes and fold them and put them away, clean the house, make the kids lunches, rub your feet every night with footy lotion and bring you your coffee in bed, my tail wagging the whole time.

And enjoy every minute of it.

Welp, heading to church, Happy Mother's Day!

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Sick: I'm EXACTLY the same way! Although I probably need a little less scratching...all she has to do is look great, bat those baby-blue's at me and I'm melting...

On a postive note, I got on voice record her asking where the bullets were for the handgun(!) Said she thought about it. Hmmmm, that little tid-bit might come in handy. And I've got texts saying she doesn't trust herself.

Hmmmm....seems LG's position is growing stronger and stronger every day smile

Off to brothers house. Addiction to STBxWW fading today. Will see how it is when she calls today...


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I can't even imagine how hard this is for you. Well, I guess I can, you're kind of in the same place I was during the my last couple false recoveries. You know the right answer, but your heart is still so needy. This time, there was no question for me. I just KNEW I had to divorce her. I think you know that too, but your instincts and your heart are trying to revert to the instinctual reaction.

During this episode you've learned a lot about yourself. You've learned how you could have been a better husband and you committed to change. It might have felt relatively easy to make those changes in light of what you had to lose. This marriage meant everything to you. Most of that was simple behavior that can be recognized and changed easily. The base instinctual reaction is a whole different thing. I think the most important lesson to learn here is to overcome the conflict avoidance and the desire to rescue another person even when they are abusing you. We have placed ourselves in an almost a classic abuser/victim role, and we are playing the role of the codependent victim. Why do we do this? It's easy for us to say, "Marriage and family mean everything to us." Maybe true, but that should never be at the expense of our basic respect, our basic ability to trust and rely on someone, our need to be told the truth. These are the most BASIC requirements of a marriage, and in the grossest way, our wives have disrespected our most basic needs. This is not marriage. This is not what you deserve. This is our insecurity and neediness that causes us to make these decisions, not love and respect. I know that you don't respect your wife. How can you? You are only respecting the IDEA of your wife.

This touches on another point and it's hard to admit, hard to look at it in yourself. It's something that is coming out in me and it's been very hard to really confront the truth of it, but I know it's there, and it's making it easier to let go. I don't think I ever admired Coho. I don't think she was ever the woman I really wanted. I loved her deeply and treated her lovingly, but I always knew of these weaknesses and I rationalized them away. I've heard a little bit of this in the way you speak of your wife. I don't think it was ever a totally equal partnership for either of us. We made the relationship conform to our ideal, instead of our wives actually creating the ideal with us as an EQUAL. I imagine after her first affair, this made it even harder for you to see her that way. This is a reflection of our neediness more than anything. It's sad, because our wives probably always sensed this too, or felt they couldn't live up to our standards, and it probably added to their discontent. This is not the foundation for a strong marriage.

On top of it, both of our wives have a deep-seeded reactionary behavior that allows them to decide to have an affair as a way to deal with their neediness. They need the attention of men and the excitement of this infatuation to make them feel wanted and desired. This behavior is not compatible with marriage. Everybody wants this, and in a marriage we should strive to recreate those feelings and maintain them as much as possible, but in the end, this is not what marriage and family are about. Love in a secure marriage is about much deeper things. I think our wives are just not cut out to be married.

Take your patience and your strength and your ability to forgive, and combine them with a humble sense of your own strength and worth and value as a man. Take the lessons you learned on how you could have been a better husband. Put this energy into yourself for awhile. It will be lonely and painful at first, but it starts feeling really really good to be able to take care of yourself at no one's expense.

Like I said, don't do this for others, do it for yourself. You don't deserve this mess that she's brought into your life. None of it was your fault, except that you didn't allow yourself to see her for who she is earlier. It doesn’t mean that she wasn't all the good things, but her lack of ability to respect your marriage during her crisis says it all. Three times.

Hang in there.

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Thanks ZEN! wonderful words of wisdom.

Just had to talk to STBxWW...kiddos handed me the phone casue we needed to make plans for her to be with them today. I was short with her and she cuold tell was upset. She got a little snippy with me and I shut her down quick.

Ick...this is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.


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Just spent probalby 20 minutes in the bathroom crying...

Emotions coming out, which is good.


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Gosh, you GUYS are really getting it.

Just curious -- I, too, have a "peace maker" type of personality which I always associated with being a "middle child." Are you guys middle kids? As for my WH -- he's the oldest of 5 so he's always been kind of a leader/trailblazer/bully/whatever.

FYI, I rescued WH over and over again for over 30 years starting with helping him study for tests in high school, to writing his papers in college, to allowing him to miss the kids events while he played golf out of town with his buddies.

Now -- after all that -- he leaves me for bimbo, moves in with her and her kids, turns his back on OUR kids, and HE files for divorce.

Anyways -- I, too, am "getting over" the need to rescue him. I have to let him fall flat on his face this time -- whether it be next month or next year or in 5 years. I'm not covering for him with anyone -- not the kids or his family or his friends or the attorney. Nothing will be done on my part to protect him.

That being said -- about the rings. I took mine off the day I got my divorce papers. He took his off during the past summer during one of his several moves in with OW. She -- this is so hard on me to even write -- found it and flushed it.

So that goes to show you the animals we are dealing with. OP has NO respect for us. WS is easily manipulated and addicted.

But don't let some of your self-analysis think that you did not have a good marriage. Yep, we can look back and question everything about how we may have done this better or that better. See -- We BELIEVED in marriage and our vows. We maintained our priorities of marriage and family infront of independent and selfish behavior.

Granted -- life can get routine and boring and turn into a grind. But that's part of the ebb and flow, the good times and the bad. We're suppose to ride it out and figure it out and keep our priorities on track and keep our families together.

So -- pat yourselves on the back and give yourselves (ourselves) credit for not bailing when it got boring.

And to all the BHs out there being a REAL mother to their kids --Happy Mother's Day to you. You are both a mother and a father to your kids just like I'm both a mother and father to mine.



M 25 yrs, 3 teens
Dday 12/07
5ish False Recoveries (all in 2008)
12/08 WH moves in w/OW, her kids
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Thanks Holy: I'm a middle child...completely! STBxWWs an oldest. I've always rescued her, always been there to save her sorry [censored]. with her mom while dating, undergrad, getting in to medical school, medical school, residenty, internship, having kiddos, family stuff...you name it.

Not any more.


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I think I'm a rescuer too, though I'm not a middle child. I think it stems from losing my parents at an early age and a fear of abandonment. Who knows? Psychology is not my area of expertise.

It's taken me this long to realize however, that my H is also having an affair, but it's not with another person. His affair is with depression, anger, anxiety and alcohol and all the marriage-building in the world is not going to work until he goes NC with all of them. I've plan A'd, written the equivalent of Plan B letters and....nothing. I've done the O&H thing and what I get for my trouble is him telling me how terrible MY feelings are for him to hear and process.

I've gone 'round and 'round and a week or so ago, told him I needed a separation. He's ready to pronounce our marriage DOA but believe it or not, I'm not (is that the rescuer thing?). I think like your WS's, if he hits rock bottom with his depression and anxiety, maybe, just maybe, he'll do something to pull himself back up. I keep telling myself that I can not fix him. And I can't keep letting him fall on top of me to break his fall. The kids are going to be collateral damage if I don't get my act together.

I post all of that not to hijack the thread, but to let you see that the process is the same--letting go, guilt, etc.

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Yep, not anymore.

And about the middle child thing -- I read a book on birth order way back when and it basically described the middle child as the peace maker, and I took that as a compliment. Now I wonder -- actually I know -- that WH used this to his advantage in KNOWING I would help him, protect him, defend him even during the worse time in MY life which was HIS affair.

I actually happened upon that same book recently at a book store. This time, I reread the part about first born -- my WH. It mentioned their "drive to succeed mentality" often leading to failed relationships. Example was Lee Iacocca and -- crap -- forgetting the other guy -- the x-GE CEO -- successful businessmen who are unsuccessful in marriage.

Couple that with my WH being a poster child for midlife crisis and kaboom -- AFFAIR.

Read the book "Men in Midlife Crisis" which is probably applicable to women as well. These people feel trapped in their lives. They need to relive their youth -- to feel the "high' of a big accomplishment like catching the winning pass as the clock runs out in the championship game, living on the edge again like college days when you would party all night but make it to class in the morning smelling of booze, to have some young thing swing from the chandallier while she screws you all night long...

That's my WH now. He doesn't want to be a dad and a husband anymore. He wants to play with this boytoy -- go out of town when he feels like it, spend money when he feels like it, do what he wants when he feels like it. He's changed his clothes, he's changed his friends, he's changed values, and morals and views on everything!

And us "peace makers" will continue being the responsible parent. We will hold down the fort and be BOTH parents to cover their asses. We won't talk trash about them in front of the kids because we are too good to mess anymore with our kids heads.

But we do need to GET A LIFE. Do something for us.

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I am not what you would call a peacemaker at any cost type, and I am a first-born child. I don't look for an argument, and am pretty easy-going and usually happy to go along with what the consensus seems to be e.g where do we go for dinner/watch on tv etc, or politely opt out and do something on my own.

But, I don't get pushed around either, at least not for very long. I have always defended myself, and was taught at an early age to stick up for people that were getting picked on.

That is, for me, what has been so confusing about this whole affair/WW business.

She is the only one that has ever been successful at pushing me around. At 5'2" 105 pounds vs my 6'2" 195, she has always ruled (not that physical size really has anything to do with it, it's just sort of funny that i was scared of her.)

I think she has won every argument we ever had, either by outlasting me, shouting me down, or simply ignoring me and doing what she wanted to do anyway.

I think Zen had a good point earlier about co-dependency.

If I am honest with myself, there is a huge part of this for me that is not rescuing her for her own good, but rather for my own selfish needs and desires to control the outcome. Of course jealousy and a broken heart played a key role too.

Not a happy thing to admit, but i think it is true.

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Yeah -- co-dependency. And we took it literally -- "two become one" in marriage. The "we" and the "us". Common goals as Mr. and Mrs. then as the family unit.

And the biggie -- "til death do we part."

So for those of us who not only said their vows but BELIEVED them -- what a fall!


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Still veeery emotioanl today. Sucks. Friday I was cool as cucumber. Saturday was a little more emotional, but still had to hold it together for exposure to parents, in-laws and friends. today has been just wave after wave of emotions.

I've managed to speak to her only once via phone and a few texts. No in-person contact, which helps a ton. When I'm away from her I can think more clearly and think about what's she's done.

When i see her I think, "let's work something out divorce wize...something equitable." Or I even have thoughts of giving her a hug and trying to make this all better. But I know I cannot do that.

I've got to stay dark. I've got to stay away from her and limit my exposure to her. I've got to keep the crack-pipe out of my hands...away from me.

she asked today if we could sit down and work out a schedule for the week wih kiddos. She asked if she could have a weekend wih them at the house. No freaking way! I didn't tell her today, but there is no way that I'm going to sleep any place but MY bed! No compromises. I'll take off in morning, but I'm sleeping in my bed! EVERY night!

Co-dependent...yes. When she was upset I helped her. When she was down I cheered her up. When she had troubles at wokr I listened. When she needed a back rub I did the back rub.

Now that's over...thankfully I have family! They all know and are extremely supportive. All I had up until yesterday was Mb.com. And it was great. now I have family and Mb.com...even better. More later...brats almost done.


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Please be careful.

It's not just what she has done...it sounds like she is still doing it with OM #3. Isn't this third D day something that is still going on?

Remember, if you allow her alone in your house, she could change the locks on you. Has your attorney said you can change the locks yet?

I would not trust her an inch.

You worked hard to get her back into the marriage and she did not give up her wayward ways. I am thankful that you kept up your spying 101 tactics and found her out.


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Originally Posted by Holyheart
Yeah -- co-dependency. And we took it literally -- "two become one" in marriage. The "we" and the "us". Common goals as Mr. and Mrs. then as the family unit.

And the biggie -- "til death do we part."

So for those of us who not only said their vows but BELIEVED them -- what a fall!

I know. You are right.

By co-dependent I mean staying in a relationship where you were being completely disrepected and cast aside when all good sense would have dictated a different response.

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I've heard the question posed a couple times about whether BSs would be better off if they adapted a much harder line and much higher bar earlier on than us peacemakers. I think the answer is yes, but I also think the peacemaker needs to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they gave it their all.

I'm a middle child who was promoted to eldest when my sister ran away. Always the peacemaker, always made the responsible choices. Have tried to rescue my brother, my sister and even my mom even when I was being disrespected by their addictive or destructive behavior. I've got it bad.

SWW, when I was first with my wife I stood up to her BS and she would thank me. Later I traded in my ba*ls and became intimidated by her temper. We would laugh about the joke, "My wife wanted to get a cat, but I didn't want one. So we compromised and got a cat." During this mess, I discovered that she was all bark and no bite. She has nowhere near the inner strength that I have. Nowhere near the resolve. I'm putting it to good use!

This is the lesson to learn!!! Patience is a beautiful strength. Letting someone disrespect you is a weakness. Don't avoid conflict, conversely, don't invite conflict. Just don't fear conflict.

This is a pep talk for me as much as anyone else, not trying to sound like a know-it-all.

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I agree with Zen. The way I see it, by negotiating, begging, pleading, and other forms of allowing the WW to stay in control is weak and wrong. The BS needs to take a strong stance, by basically removing any life of comfort and security from the WW. There is something greater then the marriage at stake, self respect. It doesn't mean you don't fight to reconcile. It means that you will use any possible means to disrupt the affair. That means exposure, spying, removing financial support, the children (its their family too), even arrest in the case of an alcohol driven affair (if he/she is in jail, she ain't cheating. You have to make separating like pulling teeth. At least until the fog is gone, when you can both look at the situation with a clear head.

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I've got to stay dark.

You haven't even begun to go dark.

Quote
I've managed to speak to her only once via phone and a few texts. I've got to stay away from her and limit my exposure to her.


Not seeing her in person isn't 'dark".

NO CONTACT with her is dark.

committed

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THanks my peeps. Yes committed, not seeing her in person is not dark...call it dim? Mood lighting? Dusk? It helps me.

The purpose of semi-dark for me to limit my exposure to her in person. When I see her I want to help her, I want to fix her and I want to make this all go away. I can feel her sucking me in when we are together. She asks the same questions (why the big D, it's really over with this guy...blah, blah, blah) typical wayward speak...

Well, it is over! Nuff said.

I don't want to go completely dark, because I want her to have her defenses down, not hire the attorney who rides in to the court room on a broom.

See the point?

Thanks for the pep talk Zen! Always welcomed!



3-DDays, 4-OMs*, Plan-D May 9, 2009, final Dec 2010 (FREEDOM!)
Custody of DDs / new job(s) / "I'm alive...and well"
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