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Joined: Oct 2000
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Suggestion:

Every day come up with 5 things you feel grateful for. Every day 5 new gratitudes.

Do this for a month.
See what happens.

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RuthGL Offline OP
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I appreciate your suggestion. Being mindful of the things I'm grateful for is important. I am actually very very fortunate in many ways and I try never to forget that.

OTOH, I'm not sure how far that goes in addressing the issues we're currently experiencing. We're in a very destructive pattern. We have several week spells that go pretty well. We do things together, we talk, I try to meet his ENs, avoid LBs, POJA all decisions, I avoid saying anything to upset him, basically I try to be perfect and it keeps the good times going for awhile. During those times, I actually am very positive and am grateful that we're getting along and seem to be making progress.

Then something miniscule, unexplainable will set him off. I can see it's coming but I can do nothing to stop it. I ask what's wrong and the response is "you know what's wrong." Then the fight ensues: the preceding weeks are recast as him making huge sacrifices for me, doing things he never wanted to do (even things that were purportedly POJA'd and agreed to), having been completely miserable during that time and just pretending to be happy. I'm portrayed as a monster: selfish, cruel, without remorse. He speaks of how much he wants to be free of me and live the life of his single buddies who in his mind are having so much fun. He speaks openly of wanting sex with "someone who will enjoy it." I'm told I deserve to be condescended to, told I'm a child (everyone he disagrees with is a child), and that if this is the worst I have to deal with then so be it.

I'm not trying to bash my H, as I said, 90% of the time everything is fine and we have a great time together but the unpredictability of his moods, the venom of his attacks, and the feeling there is nothing at all I can do to prevent it is really discouraging. It makes me realize that we are not really progressing at all and that I need a new approach. Because honestly, meeting his ENs, plan A, and trying to be the perfect wife is really not getting us very far. I know I need to keep doing these things but something more is needed as well.


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D-Day - 4/21/08
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He needs individual counseling, ASAP.

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RuthGL,

I agree with CP, he needs counseling. But, let me ask you something else. You are willing to do what you think he wants as long as it meets YOUR goals, but you are not willing to do what he says he wants if it does not meet your goals. So why is that?

Further, do you realize that his stated goals and yours are at odds and may have been even before your A?

Pep has a good suggestion, allow me to warp it abit, and have you write down your goals and the goals he states to you. Don't give my that 90/10 stuff, write down ALL of his stated goals and ALL of your stated goals.

God Bless,

JL

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Originally Posted by Just Learning
RuthGL,

I agree with CP, he needs counseling. But, let me ask you something else. You are willing to do what you think he wants as long as it meets YOUR goals, but you are not willing to do what he says he wants if it does not meet your goals. So why is that?

Further, do you realize that his stated goals and yours are at odds and may have been even before your A?

Pep has a good suggestion, allow me to warp it abit, and have you write down your goals and the goals he states to you. Don't give my that 90/10 stuff, write down ALL of his stated goals and ALL of your stated goals.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks for your reply JL. Sorry for my density, but can you clarify what you mean? When you talk about our stated goals, I'm uncertain what you are referring to.


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RuthGL,

He states and has stated that he wants out of this marriage, that he wants other women. That is a goal of his. It is not a goal of yours. So you don't entertain the idea of granting him his wish. This is an extreme example but it is worth you considering.

This is not a knock on you, it is a knock on the communications between you two. If you don't take seriously what he says you are committing an LB. IF he does not take seriously what you are saying he is committing an LB.

But, for you to really take meaningful actions you need to understand HIS goals and YOUR goals. His behavior suggests many things to me, but unfortunately his responses are messed up because of your A so we don't know what was there before and what is there now.

He has a right to be mad, hurt, untrusting, etc. He does not have the right to abuse you. You need to sort out his goals and also determine if they were there before your affair or developed after your affair. His goals are what he states he wants to do. When you have this list, you might want to read the list to him and discuss if he wants you to assist him in reaching his goals.

My guess is right now he wants out but is too gutless to do it. He is also too gutless to work on the marriage. Sounds HARSH given that he is the betrayed spouse, but I don't like abuse on either side of this equation.

To the extent you can, you two need to come to some understanding about what the goals are that each of you hold, why you hold them, and what you hope to achieve if you reach them.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

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JL,

Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you're getting at now.

Hmmm, how to respond... My H has a habit of telling me he wants one thing when he really wants the opposite as a sort of test to see if I will "do the right thing" or to discern my true motives. That is why it is hard for me to take his comments about wanting out of the marriage at face value. Perhaps this is a DJ on my part to assume this is what he is doing but this has happened enough in our relationship that I feel somewhat confident that this is a factor. As you can imagine this has made implementation of POJA very difficult.

So, I feel like this is a test you know? To test the limits of what I can endure, to see if I will throw in the towel when the going gets tough. If I do, then I feel it will be construed as a reflection of what I really wanted rather than respecting his goals. KWIM?

Now, all that being said, I agree this is a really screwed up way for us to be interacting. I don't know how to break this cycle though.

As to our goals, yes my goal is to work on recovering our marriage. I want this for both of us. I know I can be the wife he wants and deserves. I know I can make him happy if he just lets me in. I was a good person once and I know there is still some of that left. I am not sure what his goals are though because he will not tell me. I mean I know his generic goals such as to be happy, have children (although not with me - maybe that tells me everything I need to know?), have a fulfilling physical relationship, "not feel bad about himself anymore." Perhaps it's because he doesn't know himself. That is fair, I don't expect him to know. There is no doubt a lot of uncertainty and apprehension about recommitting to this relationship. I know that. But it's as if it just happened yesterday in a way. None of my efforts over the past year seem to have impacted him at all.

So either I'm not doing enough or not doing the right things OR there really is nothing I can do because the betrayal is simply too great. I realize this is a possibility.

I don't want to let him go but I will if that's what he really wants. I just need to be sure that IS what he really wants. I won't give up until I'm sure. Is that selfish? (I can take it if the answer is yes...)

I just feel like the right thing to do is to FIGHT for this. I feel like he wants to see me fight and put forth the effort even when it seems hopeless.


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Lay out a plan for him to leave. Where he would live(apt) everything. Show him the plan and see if that's really what he wants. He sounds like a person who has been tempted by infidelity himself and is considering taking the plunge. He probably hasn't got the balls to plan an out for himself, so do it for him. See if thats what he really needs and wants, if so, I think if you love him you let him go. You screwed up the M. Its your cross to bare..DUDE

Last edited by Dude007; 05/13/09 12:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by Krazy71
This is going to sound awful, and I doubt anyone will agree with me, but the best thing my FWW could've done for me, two years ago, would've been to initiate an amicable divorce and follow through with it.

If she really loved me, she could've spared me all that pain and done what I didn't have the guts to do myself.

You make me so glad I walked shortly after DDAY!! I fear I would be exactly where you were. You will now start gaining strength as you are on your own and can see this new life that you have ahead of you...DUDE

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Dude,

The trouble is you didn't walk you had a revenge affair. That was not cool. It was a bad way to handle things.

RuthGL,

Next time he states he wants out, look him in the eye and say "if that is what you want, file and let's start planning to make sure you meet your goal. I want you happy. I prefer to remain married to you, but if your goal is the single life, then file."

I am not a big fan of "if you love him let him go". I am a big fan of listening to someone, acknowledging their desires, and not standing in their way. You do not want to be married to someone who doesn't want to be married to you. He does not either, and your A has made him question if you do or don't.

However, his previous behavior suggests a very immature man and a game player. Marriage is NOT where games are played in my book. It is where life is shared, enjoyed, and becomes fruitful.

Further, if he does not want kids with you but wants kids, he is entitled to that opinion. He needs to file for divorce and proceed. If you want kids and he doesn't want to have them with you, then you need to file.

Frankly in the state of your marriage kids are the very last thing that should be brought into the picture. My point, start taking what he says literally and pointing out he needs to take action if he believes what he says. Put the ball in his court.

You MUST work on your issues. You must try to be a good W. You cannot be perfect. You Must learn from your mistakes. You cannot be his teacher. You MUST love him to remain married. You cannot make him love you.

It is time you got focused on what is being said, and what is and is not being done. It is time he was called on his statements and encouraged to either do it or get on with recovery. I know he is angry and hurt that comes with the territory, but he MUST start to help or really you will develop so much resentment that this marriage will fail.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Last edited by Just Learning; 05/13/09 03:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by RuthGL
Then something miniscule, unexplainable will set him off. I can see it's coming but I can do nothing to stop it.

If you can see it coming, then there should be something you can do to help lessen the blow. Maybe apologizing will help. What is his top EN? or top 3 ENs? Maybe trying to apologize and meet those ENs will stop the blow up. If you try something, at least he will know that you (1) recognize his pain and (2) are trying to help him.


Originally Posted by RuthGL
I ask what's wrong and the response is "you know what's wrong." Then the fight ensues: the preceding weeks are recast as him making huge sacrifices for me, doing things he never wanted to do (even things that were purportedly POJA'd and agreed to), having been completely miserable during that time and just pretending to be happy. I'm portrayed as a monster: selfish, cruel, without remorse. He speaks of how much he wants to be free of me and live the life of his single buddies who in his mind are having so much fun. He speaks openly of wanting sex with "someone who will enjoy it." I'm told I deserve to be condescended to, told I'm a child (everyone he disagrees with is a child), and that if this is the worst I have to deal with then so be it.

If he really wanted the life of his buddies, he would have chosen that path by now. When he portrays you as a monster, he is speaking of the you that betrayed him. Agree and say you know what you did was selfish and cruel but that you do have remorse. As far as "someone who will enjoy it", he probably feels that you strayed b/c you did not enjoy it with him.

Originally Posted by RuthGL
I'm not trying to bash my H, as I said, 90% of the time everything is fine and we have a great time together but the unpredictability of his moods, the venom of his attacks, and the feeling there is nothing at all I can do to prevent it is really discouraging. It makes me realize that we are not really progressing at all and that I need a new approach. Because honestly, meeting his ENs, plan A, and trying to be the perfect wife is really not getting us very far. I know I need to keep doing these things but something more is needed as well.


This is the price you pay for choosing the path of cheating. The only thing that can heal his wounds are time, you having remorse, and not giving up. You have to earn his forgiveness and it will not be easy. But remember that he is attacking the you that had the A...the new you is trying to change for the better.


Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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