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Originally Posted by faithful follower
So to protect any future R's I would advise you to take that thought one step further and build solid personal boundaries so you never allow yourself the OPPORTUNITY to cheat.

I always got the feeling that she was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

on the first point, what do you consider sufficient in this endeavor? It hurt really bad the first time and the memroy of that pain will keep me away from it? Never be in a relationship again? I can tell you that because I worked at a job outside the home, frozen did not feel safe. She saw "work" as unsafe. I see "work" as a requirement to survival. That I screwed around at work was not linked to that. It was a place to meet people... no different than a convience store with a girl behind the counter that was sweet to me. I never had an affair with her, the counter lady... so leaving THE job where I cheated was not good enough. So, does this mean I have to never work again in order to protect my next R? What kinds of things do you build? For the moment, I am running on "the consequences sucked for her and I and I don't want to be a part of that again" It seems to be working just peachy, actually. Just like with all people, when the consequence is bad enough, the behavior can change pretty easy. This set of consequesnces was pretty bad, I'd say.

And yes... she was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am a provider. It is my instinct(which is probably worthy of a look as far as Mr W is talking about attracting victims). She was waiting for the other show to drop because I was going to work. Work is obviously the place of cheating... which of course it isn't. That work was the place of cheating. No other workplace I have been to has been even close to any sort of cheating. I learned from my mistake and my behavior changed. Never broke no contact. Not even now. NC obvioulsy doen't matter to my marriage anymnore... but it matters to OWs(if she is still in it.. I don't know.. I don't keep up at all) so in order to respect the possibility of her marraige, NC stays in place. That tims in my life is over. No need to go there again.

So I dont have the chance of relapse with OW.

I stay away from interactions outside the workplace now.

I remember the consequences.

what else? I alwyas feel I am missing some big point...

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Check out this thread started by STBXW in July, 2008...see if you can READ the lies therein. She "claims" he raped her a MONTH prior while she was supposedly out of it on Ambien, she calls the police and has him removed from his home for a few days and lo and behold when he gets back in it is completely cleaned out. It was a RUSE to rip him off, obtain/maintain victim status AND by posting it here, an attempt to cut Patriot off from his support (MB friends who were really the only friends he was allowed to have).

***edit****

I think the best insight into this "train wreck" comes from this post below written by STBXW herself on 10/2008 (after cleaning him out and isolating him from everyone). Recall the childhood lesson that when someone points a finger at someone, they have 3 other fingers pointing back at them.

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Hey believer!

It is actually quite common for abusers to claim that "they" are the ones being abused. I've never known an abuser who hasn't.

Do they believe that or do they know they are lying?

Personally, I think both.

Given their warped sense of right/wrong and the overblown entitlement, they very well may truly believe that not acquiesing to any demands they make IS unfair mistreatment of them.

Also, they need a reason to justify their behavior and any mistake a victim might be guilty of makes easy fodder for the abuser to justify not only their abuse, but their blame for the source of the problems as well.

Abusers WANT you to make mistakes..."See how horrible she is to me? See what I have to put up with? Poor me, poor me, poor me."

Mr. W

p.s. - I've had my tiffs with Patriot here and elsewhere. I'm NOT nominating him for sainthood. But he's a good guy that TRIED very hard and for a very long time to right that ship. He endured far more than I ever would have if I were in his situation.

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:24 PM. Reason: link removed
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Hi Patriot! Long time, no see. Hope you are doing well. smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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on the first point, what do you consider sufficient in this endeavor? It hurt really bad the first time and the memroy of that pain will keep me away from it? Never be in a relationship again? I can tell you that because I worked at a job outside the home, frozen did not feel safe. She saw "work" as unsafe. I see "work" as a requirement to survival. That I screwed around at work was not linked to that. It was a place to meet people... no different than a convience store with a girl behind the counter that was sweet to me. I never had an affair with her, the counter lady... so leaving THE job where I cheated was not good enough. So, does this mean I have to never work again in order to protect my next R? What kinds of things do you build? For the moment, I am running on "the consequences sucked for her and I and I don't want to be a part of that again" It seems to be working just peachy, actually. Just like with all people, when the consequence is bad enough, the behavior can change pretty easy. This set of consequesnces was pretty bad, I'd say.
Actually, Pat, remove her from this part of the discussion. This is all about you and any future R's you have. My A was a workplace affair as well. In fact I still work at the same job. My H does not feel unsafe with me being here. What have I done to ensure I don't put myself in that position again? I do not talk about my marriage with members of the opposite sex. I don't allow myself to get close to anyone at work any more in fact. I have a few people that I chat with in the lunch room but I never take it to a deep level. I don't have lunch alone with the opposite sex unless it happens to take place in our very busy and very public lunchroom. Most of my lunch time I read the news paper.

In addition I don't have close male friends. I don't flirt. I don't dress provacatively. If I dress up it is for my H, not anyone else. I had an old BF call me out of the blue a few years ago. I told him flat out that I didn't want to continue with any attempt at friendship since my H was at that moment involved in an affair with an old gf.

So re-read my question as what do you plan to do going forward in your life?


Faith

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Hey Patriot,
I am so grateful that you have posted because I am turning into your STBXW, my WS posts on here as yellanointmE he is in the same boat as you where in, he is a decent guy, he sees work as essential and he is trying to learn as much as possible from his mistake, I see work as him being part of a world that i dont belong in whatever job he has and therefore not able to feel safe and will have tendencies to sabotage job, however discussed that he will make an effort to introduce his family at when he moves from working with OW to a new job in the new year in order to avoid recurrence of A and protect himself from wayward behaviour. I feel like I have so much to learn from your situation and the way you feel due to the similarities, My WS beleives he is a nice guy and has never hurt anyone no matter what they did to him so A was a shock to both of us. Difference between you and him is that he had A 10 years into our marriage and you had it at the beginning of your relationship so you dont understand why she still married you and my answer to that is because she loved you enough to want to try to beleive in you again and trust you again , unfortunately she didnt manage that despite your efforts. Im sorry I am not able to give you much help in your situation right now apart from maybe try and explain how crazed BW feel as both myself and your wife seem to have this unfortunate trait, I dont know if you would find that helpful but im here if you want to give it a try. Tell me what you didnt understand about your BS behaviour and I will try and explain why we feel this way. I am very proud of the way you have grown and respected your marriage even after it ended. You havent gone and buried your head in another relationship and you are on here trying to better yourself for the next relationship and that is nothing short of admirable. You are allowing yourself to feel the pain despite having the freedom to forget about it.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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And yes... she was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am a provider. It is my instinct(which is probably worthy of a look as far as Mr W is talking about attracting victims). She was waiting for the other show to drop because I was going to work. Work is obviously the place of cheating... which of course it isn't. That work was the place of cheating. No other workplace I have been to has been even close to any sort of cheating. I learned from my mistake and my behavior changed. Never broke no contact. Not even now. NC obvioulsy doen't matter to my marriage anymnore... but it matters to OWs(if she is still in it.. I don't know.. I don't keep up at all) so in order to respect the possibility of her marraige, NC stays in place. That tims in my life is over. No need to go there again.
I agree. In fact, what I was saying was meant to convey that I think you really did try. She seemed to be stuck WAITING for it to happen again. It is very hard to recover with someone in those conditions.

So glad to see you back!


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IMO, you've been "victimized" yourself by TWO spouses now.

I know we've discussed over the years that you felt victimized by your FOO.

Consider also that every argument we've had on MB was you defending a "victim" on MB.

IMO, you are a saver and a defender of the weak. Which in the abstract sounds great, however, IMO, your perception of true "weakness" seems way off. Add in another abusive relationship and it's even going to be more "off" going forard. You ARE the victim here. You have to recover individually before you go trying to "save" anyone else.

Why you are an unhealthy saver is irrelevant, really. Recognizing it and addressing it in the future is the important part BEFORE you make another mistake.

For now...you MIGHT just avoid a initmate relationship for long while. Get divorced (obviously) and focus on building meaninful platonic relationships & friendships. Get healthy as right now...you'll either be the savior or the one needing saving, which isn't a healthy foundation for any relationship.

Your friend,

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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To add to Mr. W's post...get the book "10 Stupid Things Men do to Mess up Their Lives" by Dr. Laura Schlessinger.


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Pat, one thing that springs to my mind is the private conversation with a female professor or something like that. I'm not defending her at all for her reactions, and don't even remember how that came out, so all I'm doing is tossing out some general thoughts here.

I would, now and always, be uncomfortable with AJ having a closed-door meeting one on one with a woman. He has done everything within his power to help me feel safe, so I feel reasonable holding up my discomfort as a response that falls within normal and healthy.

Since you're looking for areas which you can still improve for future relationships, that might be one to consider. Not because you are forever tainted (you're not), but because you're human. I think it's just a good policy when you're in a committed R, not to be alone with members of the opposite sex.

However off the chart some of the responses and expectations of your STBXW may have been, that is something that would bother most women, and approximately 100% of women who have been betrayed.

Sad but true, it will take you a while to sort yourself out, and separate the irrational reactions from the rational ones. This is a good place to do it, though.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Hey Pat:

I just wanted to say Hi, and also thank you for the help you and frozen tried to give me several years ago.

I am glad that you are finding some peace now...I am totally shocked to hear that **** did all of the following to you:

Quote
Seems to me if she was really so victimized by patriots passive aggression and constant gaslighting she'd want to get this divorce over with and get far away from him. They weren't married long and had no children together. Instead, she cleans him out stealing all the marital (and much of the non-marital) property down to the last stitch and piece of silverware, accuses him of heinous crimes, accuses him of additional adultery, accuses him of physical abuse, breaks into his home (after separation), breaks into his computer, defames him on MB, to his step-kids and likely everywhere else and THEN drags the divorce on for over a year (my guess just to keep making him as miserable as possible since, in her mind, she bears NO RESPONSIBILITY for the downfall of this marriage [crazy, I know] and/or hoping he'll date or something so she can REALLY get him for adultery). It's all a game to her and she NEEDS him to maintain her victimhood (I bet she's even accusing HIM of being the one dragging the divorce out, passive aggressively, no doubt).

When you guys were trying to help me and STBXWW, I thought **** was stable and firmly rooted in reality. I remember that **** used to call STBXWW on her crazy BS too, and I WISHED that STBXWW could be more like ****. I didn't know that they were so similar after all...

Anyway, I hope you get the peace you deserve soon.

FYI, I went through a bunch of false legal allegations too in the divorce and custody stuff. However, I am almost done now with a tentative agreement, and I believe it will all be done within a month or so.

LoBoy

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:29 PM. Reason: mb name removed

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Thanks for the link Mr. W but it is very vague IMO and since I wasn't here back then or know either party I was going by what patriot said in his own words. Maybe she was angry at herself for going through with the marriage and wanted to punish him all she could. If she did the things you say, then she has/had her own issues and I don't agree with that either. In the end, D seems like it was the correct solution for both.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by faithful follower
So re-read my question as what do you plan to do going forward in your life?

well, my plan going forward is mostly made up of "well duh" stuff right now. I respect marriage, so I not messing with anyone's. At all. If a woman pushes towards me, then I will deal with that in the moment. Simple escalation of force, basically. First confront her. If that fails, then escalate the response to informing her husband. I figure I will deal with that as it happens, but the guide is stay away. So that protects others relationships from me.

For myself in a relationship, to protect the one with me, it really comes down to transparency, honesty and maintaining my values and boundaries.. that latter I have found is much easier when you aren't under attack all the time. I understand the pain that happens when you are unfaithful and that is deterrent enough for me.

So, I am keeping in mind the protection of a relationship I may be in, then really... going forward with someone else is down to remaining aware of the status of what is going on and responding in a healthy manner. Previously, lets say, if I dated someone and they started talking about moving in, I would field that idea. Now, I won't. If the person I am dating needs money just to get by, I'm probably no longer the guy. Basically, all 'savior' mentality is halted. So I get to be a little more selfish really, for now. Later on, if I find someone, then I will begin with honesty and simply being me and if things progress, then fine. But frankly, I believe I have seen plenty of unhealthy behavior to know how to ID it, and for the moment, I am staying away from that kind of stuff.

For instance, I dated someone for a little while recently. It was going too fast probably, but it felt good at the time. And I wanted that. But this woman had an issue with my child taking my time away from her. I let the issue persist for a short time so I could make sure I was seeing what I was seeing. I purposefully planned an outing for the three of us at a local place. For the most part, things were fine, but she made mention of something that was a red flag as to her feeling she had to compete for my time against my son. This after I had made it a POINT to divide time evenly. I was very deliberate. It was a reg flag and that was that. I ended it. I didn't want to be alone at the time, and previously, that would have been enough to deal. It no longer is. So that relationship is in the past. And my son and I win. I don't get into an unhealthy relationship. He doesn't get dragged into it either.

really, it came down to "I know what happens when you don't pay attention to the decisions you make so now I will pay attention" I'm not completely damaged and I know what it looks like when things aren't right. And really, I have to trust my instincts. My son is the most important to me. He wasn't winning. So I wasn't either. And if I was going to let it persist, all three of us would pay for it in some way. So, thank you for your time, but I'm moving on.

any concerns with that answer?


raven: why bow out of the train wreck. Life is a crazy thing. But most of the time, we let things happen to us. I made this and let this happen to me, at different points. You learn or you don't. My focus is to learn from it, which I think I might have gotten most of what I need from it. Maybe in talking about it, someone else benefits.

Mr W: nope.. I'm no saint... but I play one on a movie of the week smile

ML: I have missed you most scarecrow... I hope you are doing very well. I sent you email.

brutal: the biggest question I have is this. Why couldn't she seperate the idea of work from the infidelity? In today's society, as I see it, you have to work. it is the ONLY wayto survive for MOST people. We have to eat. We have to have shelter. She equated work to the bar. I can't even see that analogy. Work is where you work. You don't earn money at the bar, unless you work there. If we have a house, cars, credit, teenagers in HS, and so on... how is any of this sustained by me not working? The answer is, it isn't. Not at all... so then we have a fork in the road, yes? Either you stay with me and I work. Or you don't stay with me and I work. Either way, the only way I know to survive is to work. It has to happen. I left the workplace that contained OW. It wasn't work that made me cheat. It was my decision and OW. period. This does not translate to now EVERY workplace is a cheatfest...

Neak: You said something very important. You recognized that you may not feel 100% safe but that you were willing to accept that given what you were receiving from him. Two parts there. He's doing his part. You are accepting responsibility for letting him back in(you chose to stay). I believed I was doing all I could to fulfill the former. The latter, however, was missing and I couldn't do anything about that. I agree with you that it is very protective and right to not be in situations like you described with members of the opposite sex. I was not always perfect on this, like meeting with a female professor, but the door was not closed, it was a public college and so on. At a workplace I was at, daily I reported on each instance of a female saying 'hello' to me in the hall. As tedious as that was, I did it because I wanted to help her feel safe. That was supposed to be transparency. I've wondered if the fact that 5-10 polite women saying hi to me over the course of a day really sounded like several instances and thus, overwhelming to her...

loboy: unfortunately, the internet hides the true person. hell.. I might be batcrap insane for all you know... that said, the list of stuff that Mr W wrote is not all of it. ANd that list is large... I look at it and say wow. I hope your situation improves soon.

raven again: um.. yes. D is the right solution. I would submit in addition to this a remark about what you said. The idea of her being angry at a choice SHE made and PUNISHING me for it sounds about as evil as I can imagine. One of my personal pet peeves is people not taking personal responsibility. I ride my kid for this. When he does something and then attempts to not take the blame for the outcome, I stop him right there and we talk about it. punishing someone else for YOUR poor choice is simply low and dehumanizing. Where are the checks and balances in that? The care and protection? Really? I don't know what I said in my own words that you saw, but I certainly did NOT spend time punishing her for my choices. And isn't that a pretty important tenet around here?

personal responsibility?

The BS can't forgive if they ALWAYS blame the WS for the pee stained couch. At some point you have to say, "I bought it and now we are going forward"

The WS can't understand and change it they don't take personal responsibility either.

when you take responsibility for yourself, you are a better giver and taker as well.

"He did this to me" is a crisis and people need help.

"He did this to me 3 years ago and I choose to stay, but I also choose to punish the hel out of him for the entire time" is simply not taking personal responsibility for one's actions. And sad, really.



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brutal: the biggest question I have is this. Why couldn't she seperate the idea of work from the infidelity? In today's society, as I see it, you have to work. it is the ONLY wayto survive for MOST people. We have to eat. We have to have shelter. She equated work to the bar. I can't even see that analogy. Work is where you work. You don't earn money at the bar, unless you work there. If we have a house, cars, credit, teenagers in HS, and so on... how is any of this sustained by me not working? The answer is, it isn't. Not at all... so then we have a fork in the road, yes? Either you stay with me and I work. Or you don't stay with me and I work. Either way, the only way I know to survive is to work. It has to happen. I left the workplace that contained OW. It wasn't work that made me cheat. It was my decision and OW. period. This does not translate to now EVERY workplace is a cheatfest...

Hey pilot I can only tell you how I feel about it as i can see i am very similar to your STBXW, my WH has said what you have said above to me a millon times and I still didnt get it, to me work was alien territory where he goes to get away from house kids and gets totally abosorbed into something that has nothing to do with him thinking about us (now i realise that earning money is thinking about us but not as directly as i would have liked) when A happened with a coworker this only enforced my hate for him having this refuge, i was a stay at home mum and didnt have a space to escape kids, marriage etc and fantasised that work did that for him. I didnt care that he was lifting heavy items, working through lunch breacks and he was under pressure to meet deadlines, to me that was irrelevant work = Freedom from home. Could your STBXW have had those feelings? was she working too?
Another side is that i was gelouse, its as simple as that, having been made aware that he is capable of having A i was fiercly gelouse of any job that involved women, i dont care how old what they look like as long as they were women there was a threat. When you are so consumed with gelousy you tend to oversee the facts that the kids wont have food if WS isnt working and it took me a lot of selfsoothing and antidepressants to supress this in order for WS to carry on working with OW. Unlike your STBXW I reached a point that i realised i was fighting with something that didnt make sense and decided to figure out what actions steps would help WS to take in order to help me cope with him working. 1) I got a job and now understand that when your at work you work there isnt really much chance to spend all day thinking about how much you love kids and W.
2) I understood the need for WS to provide for us, as the few times i successfully sabotaged WS work they suffered.
3) I figured out that if i met the people WS works with then i had some assurances like they would know who i was and would possibly tell me if WS strayed again, plus it got me involved in WS work life in the way that he could come home and talk to me about the people he works with and i would know who and what he was talking about.
4) seeing the reality of what my WS job involves helps destroy the fantasy that he has so much time on his hands while at work to think about us and even start A again. Its not easy having A at work there are alot of people looking and then there are the gossipers followed by the immense amount of planning it takes to make sure you dont give anyone a hint that you are having a with a coworker. It really must be exhausting.

I could go on but what i am trying to say that she has to be realisting and willing to help things in order to get over the work situation and im sad to see she may not have been.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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You don't just accept the pee stained couch, not in a recovery. The couch picks up the phone, calls the cleaners, makes itself an appointment, goes and gets cleaned up, and deep sixes the dog that peed on it.

The other acceptable alternative, that doesn't involve recovery, is take the couch to the dump and drop it off. What doesn't work is to keep the couch, never sit on it, draw the stain back on if it starts to fade, and just kick the couch for being dirty. (Even if the couch genuinely has pee on it this is bad, far worse when the couch has been long since cleaned up.)

Being a FWS does not entitle the BS to abuse you, so I'm very glad you have a chance to find peace.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
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Neak's Story
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I dont know if this will be relavant or helpful to you but my WS has had councelling with Steve Harley and this is what he has realised and done regarding A.

Steve ponted out that A happen when you fail to protect your weaknesses, you seem to be aware of your weaknesses so accept that you have them and put boundries in place to protect them. A boundry of never talking to another woman again is not realistic so try to be realstic in your boundries so that you are more likely to stick to them. One that my WS has chosen for example is not to be a shoulder to cry on for women, he recognises this is a bad sign that something is up so he will tell women that he simply hasnt got the experience to help them out with their issues and refer them to another woman for advise, you see there is no need to be nasty about you can still do it nicely.

There is a list of boundries on my WS thread that he has set himself see if you can find any of them helpful.

I do feel that you need time to recover from M and not to get into any relationships until D is through. I agree you need to start thinking about future relationships but maybe hold off on actually being in one until you have had sufficient time to start recovering from D.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Originally Posted by patriot92
raven: why bow out of the train wreck.

Is this a question?

Quote
Life is a crazy thing. But most of the time, we let things happen to us. I made this and let this happen to me, at different points. You learn or you don't. My focus is to learn from it, which I think I might have gotten most of what I need from it. Maybe in talking about it, someone else benefits.

I agree

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raven again: um.. yes. D is the right solution. I would submit in addition to this a remark about what you said. The idea of her being angry at a choice SHE made and PUNISHING me for it sounds about as evil as I can imagine. One of my personal pet peeves is people not taking personal responsibility. I ride my kid for this. When he does something and then attempts to not take the blame for the outcome, I stop him right there and we talk about it. punishing someone else for YOUR poor choice is simply low and dehumanizing. Where are the checks and balances in that? The care and protection? Really? I don't know what I said in my own words that you saw, but I certainly did NOT spend time punishing her for my choices. And isn't that a pretty important tenet around here?

personal responsibility?

The BS can't forgive if they ALWAYS blame the WS for the pee stained couch. At some point you have to say, "I bought it and now we are going forward"

The WS can't understand and change it they don't take personal responsibility either.

when you take responsibility for yourself, you are a better giver and taker as well.

"He did this to me" is a crisis and people need help.

"He did this to me 3 years ago and I choose to stay, but I also choose to punish the hel out of him for the entire time" is simply not taking personal responsibility for one's actions. And sad, really.

I don't disagree with what you said except for the bolded...I can think of way more evil things than her being messed up by A trauma and lashing out, right or wrong. How long between Dday and your wedding?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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BR: It was a question. Never mind I suppose.

everyone has their opinions on what is evil and what isn't. Some are universal.. others are based on one's experience. The bolded part is, obviously, based on my experience.

DDay to wedding was 6 weeks I think. ballparking there.

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All I have to say is WOW...I guess FWS have it rough too, maybe thats why a lot of WS never go back because it is easier for them just to walk away....not sayin that is the right thing to do, but most of them took the easy way by sneakin and cheatin, instead of facing problems head on...

I give you a lot of credit Pat, you made a mistake, we all have made our share..and it seems to me that you did all the things required to make it right, which is not easy...and it didnt work out...But now you have the proper tools to have a great relationship in the future, good luck.

PS I just want to add...Isnt it so cute that Mr and Mrs wondering post together on threads to help people..they always make me smile when I see them post together.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Hey Patriot, I don't post much any more but wanted to say I'm sorry to hear this news but I think it is best in the long run.

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Wanted to add that the Wonderings know what they're talking about.

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