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Hi kateydid-

I can certainly understand your unease at this information. I think the best course of action is to make sure that you document this and any other "irregularities" that occur. Then, contact your attorney with this information.

Also, when you aren't home, I'd have your neighbors keep an eye on any car that saunters by your house-write down the license number, make and color of those cars as well. It can't hurt to have your neighbors watching out for you.

I think the crazies in affairland really think that they have some kind of "smoking gun" with the twisted belief that you and SM are having a R. Somehow they seem to think that this may give them an advantage in court. It's crazy but then again, waywards make no sense.






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"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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Thanks, JT.

Unfortunately, I live in a very rural area (still can only get dial-up... ugghh!) and I don't have any neighbors close by that would be able to notice any cars out of the ordinary. And if it was WH's vehicle it wouldn't be that odd to see.

I do wish I had one of those camcorders that some hunters use to scope out an area over a long period of time.

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I think the crazies in affairland really think that they have some kind of "smoking gun" with the twisted belief that you and SM are having a R.

Crazy is right... there are still days that I wake up and think in disbelief that I am in this situation... and it's been a year and a half.

What's even more upsetting is that WH, OW and her kids show up at DSs weekly bowling league for the last 1/2 hour. DSs were home this weekend so it was a non-visitation wknd with WH. And I think of what WH is accusing me of and I just get so angry. DSs hardly went by WH, except for DS9, they stayed by me. My 2 friends were there, whose sons bowl, and yes one was the SM and the other was the [censored]'t SM (female). I felt like I was under a microscope the whole time, and as such I would ignore my friends at times.

My friend, [censored]'t SM, told me this later in the day when we spoke by phone. She understood why I did this, however she also said that I need to stop giving WH such control over me. You know, I read about boundaries, manipulation/control; I discuss this with others and I understand it all. BUT... it is so hard to not let myself fall into this trap. I was doing well until the last week, seeing the lengths that WH is going to has made me take more than the typical "2 steps backwards".

When we left the bowling alley, there is WH with his "new" family just calling out to DSs "good bye boys, I love you" as the door is closing. He just doesn't get it... and yeah I have a bit of that little (OK not so little) green jealous monster coming out.


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Maybe you could ask friends and acquaintances to make it harder for him to keep doing this. Ask them to ask him what he thinks he's doing...basically call him out. Do another exposure, if you will. Tell these people how much it's hurting your kids to have him keep shoving his 'new' family in their faces. Ask for help.

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Looking for some input...

I'm making up my list of what I feel needs to be in the visitation order that will be clarified further at next weeks trial.

If anyone has any other ideas please add to my list. Also, if you feel that some are so unlikely to happen, please let me know, but I am shooting for the moon. I know integration with OW/her kids will most likely be a possibility so this list is based on that premise. But I can pray the judge will do something with all the violations of visitation as well as hope that OW will be called to testify and her lack of good judgement and true colors will show. Maybe, WH and OW will be recommended to have an evaluation done.

1. DSs to be evaluated to see where they're at with all of this (in July DSs law guardian recommended family counseling to achieve this, but WH flat out refused which is why the judge ordered a trial)
2. Slow integration- such that WH can't be with OW/her kids the majority of his visitation.
3. ABSOLUTELY NO OVERNIGHTS.
4. DS's will never be alone with OW and/or her kids. I have valid concerns with her D14 with past events in her life and the court system being involved. Law guardian and my atty are aware of this and are looking into it- not sure if this can be introduced into our trial.
5. OW will never transport DSs anwhere.
6. DSs will not ride the bus to OW's home (they have stated they don't want to do this).
7. NO out of state travel.
8. For now no holiday time spent with OW/kids present (I'm thinking of upcoming Christmas holiday which is right after trial).
9. School vacations to be divided as per DSs wishes- they want to split them F-Wed evening & Wed evening-Su. They have stated they do not want to not see either one of us for a whole week or be away from their home/bedrooms for a whole week. WH is against this.
10. DS15 is not to be used as a babysitter (again concerns with being alone with OW's D14).
11. If DSs are spending overnights beyond the weekend, WH has to be there (WH works third shift and would need to take time off).

Anything else?



BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Just thought of another one...

12. WH is responsible for picking up DSs and bringing them home for all of his visitation time. WH is insistent that I need to provide 1/2 the transportation. I think that he is the one who left and abandoned his family, so he needs to provide all transportation for HIS visitation.


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Quote
Looking for some input...

I'm making up my list of what I feel needs to be in the visitation order that will be clarified further at next weeks trial.

If anyone has any other ideas please add to my list. Also, if you feel that some are so unlikely to happen, please let me know, but I am shooting for the moon. I know integration with OW/her kids will most likely be a possibility so this list is based on that premise. But I can pray the judge will do something with all the violations of visitation as well as hope that OW will be called to testify and her lack of good judgement and true colors will show. Maybe, WH and OW will be recommended to have an evaluation done.

1. DSs to be evaluated to see where they're at with all of this (in July DSs law guardian recommended family counseling to achieve this, but WH flat out refused which is why the judge ordered a trial)
2. Slow integration- such that WH can't be with OW/her kids the majority of his visitation.
3. ABSOLUTELY NO OVERNIGHTS.
4. DS's will never be alone with OW and/or her kids. I have valid concerns with her D14 with past events in her life and the court system being involved. Law guardian and my atty are aware of this and are looking into it- not sure if this can be introduced into our trial.
5. OW will never transport DSs anwhere.
6. DSs will not ride the bus to OW's home (they have stated they don't want to do this).
7. NO out of state travel.
8. For now no holiday time spent with OW/kids present (I'm thinking of upcoming Christmas holiday which is right after trial).
9. School vacations to be divided as per DSs wishes- they want to split them F-Wed evening & Wed evening-Su. They have stated they do not want to not see either one of us for a whole week or be away from their home/bedrooms for a whole week. WH is against this.
10. DS15 is not to be used as a babysitter (again concerns with being alone with OW's D14).
11. If DSs are spending overnights beyond the weekend, WH has to be there (WH works third shift and would need to take time off).
12. WH is responsible for picking up DSs and bringing them home for all of his visitation time. WH is insistent that I need to provide 1/2 the transportation. I think that he is the one who left and abandoned his family, so he needs to provide all transportation for HIS visitation.


More to add....
13. Any financial obligations to extra-curricular activities (i.e., weekly bowling league, birthday parties, school events) is the responsibility of WH when he has them on his visitation weekends. I will take care of the weekends that DSs are home. As it is now, I am responsible for all.
14. OW and her kids not to be at DSs extra-curricular activities, unless it is a shared activity with her kids. This past Saturday, WH shows up at DSs bowling league with OW and her kids and there was no reason for them to be there. This is probably too off the wall to enforce....

Anything else I should add??

Funny story.... Friday night when leaving DS9's scout pack mtg., his scout master backs into my driver's side door. (Huge dent, I filed claim with his ins. company, now just waiting for them to call me back to set up adjuster appt. and get new car door installed.) I call my mom to let her know and instead of asking if we're OK, she says..... "You need to stay away from these scout masters."

As if I didn't have a full enough plate! But as my friend and I discussed, perhaps this is God's way of taking my complete focus off of WH, OW, and the trial.....


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Katey, your list looks good to me, but I'm no lawyer.
Regarding your mom's comment about scout masters, I can see where it's coming from. Right when you first told us about your H's suspicions about SM, we warned you that you should stay back, for your own sanity.
If you read back at your posts since then, there are more than a few mentions of encounters/thoughts about SM. Clearly, he's growing into a close friend, and under normal circumstances, that wouldn't be a big deal, but right now, you should think about ways to protect yourself from an unintentional EA.
You don't want to give your WH ANY reason to justify his behavior.
Good luck, my friend. It is going to be tough for the forseeable future, I'm afraid.


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I'm a tax attorney in Michigan...not a divorce attorney in New York, so I don't know much about these "lists" and there enforceability/achievability in New York.

Your attorney will likely word them the right way. Seems you'll likely have to reword instances where you say "the OW" to any person, NOT related by blood.

For example, "there are to be no overnight guest during visitation that are not related by blood to the children".

If you do refer to OW she'll likely be referred to as his "paramour" - which means "an illicit lover". It's the legal term for it though some have disliked the term since it has "lover" in the definition. puke

Hopefully, your attorney has some extra standard one's to add to the list, such as, whether you two are going to file a Joint 2009 and beyond Tax Return and how to go about doing such.

Are you taking the boys to church on Sundays? Continuance of religious education is a priority to the courts and thus, may give you an opportunity to get them away from WH on Sunday mornings early even on his visitaion weekends (presuming HE won't take them).

Anyway...your lawyer will hopefully come up with more. Shoot for the moon...with his behavior in violation of the judge's orders, it's possible you'll get whatever you ask for. The judge can't punish him much monetarily nor will he/she take away visitation, so he/she MAY look for other ways to slap him silly for disrespecting his/her orders.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I doubt very much OW will take the stand. Wayturds are very afraid of the light and having to espouse their wayturdness out in the open in a courtroom is just too much for them to handle. Expect the skank to hide unless your attorney can get her on the stand. I also hope you can admit to the court record your concerns about OW's daughter. I'd certainly have concerns about my pubicest son's spending alone time around OW's daughter. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


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you should think about ways to protect yourself from an unintentional EA.
You don't want to give your WH ANY reason to justify his behavior


Ima- I absolutely understand and agree. Remaining faithful to my husband and marriage is one boundary that I can honestly say I am able to keep in place without difficulty or wavering. I know I need to continue to care for and protect that.

Mr. W-
Quote
where you say "the OW" to any person, NOT related by blood. For example, "there are to be no overnight guest during visitation that are not related by blood to the children".

Thanks for wording clarification.
Quote
If you do refer to OW she'll likely be referred to as his "paramour" - which means "an illicit lover". It's the legal term for it though some have disliked the term since it has "lover" in the definition.
Double puke puke
Quote
Shoot for the moon...with his behavior in violation of the judge's orders, it's possible you'll get whatever you ask for. The judge can't punish him much monetarily nor will he/she take away visitation, so he/she MAY look for other ways to slap him silly for disrespecting his/her orders.

I pray that the judge will look at it this way- WH disrespected judge's orders by violating visitation. My biggest fear is that the judge will say well it has been a year so there shouldn't be an issue with having OW around.
Quote
I also hope you can admit to the court record your concerns about OW's daughter. I'd certainly have concerns about my pubicest son's spending alone time around OW's daughter. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree


I hope so too. There is so much with this one. I fear that information from other family court hearing involving accusations by daughter against a former fiancee (that were then later recanted by both OW and her daughter) will not be admissable. I relayed this info to my atty and to the boys' LG because of the concerns this raises.

Also to add to the drama... I was told that OW has been in frequent contact with former fiancee, and I was even asked if WH and OW had ended their relationship. I can only pray for this. I do want to see WH fall, and hit the bottom hard, but I do not want to be near this and I especially do not want DSs anywhere near this. Time will tell.....


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Well... Monday's court trial looks to be adjourned. I received a call earlier telling me that my atty had emergency surgery today and that a request was put in to the court for an adjournment to a later date.

I pray that God creates chaos and turmoil in WH's adultery with OW... Is this what these adjournments are? This trial was originally scheduled for Oct. but keeps getting adjourned. Will this add pressure to their relationship?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Can't hurt. Good luck.

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New trial date for visitation/custody is in February... 2 months from now... I'm waiting for the fallout from WH regarding this.

I feel that I have been given an opportunity by God to do something with these 2 months... but what???? How can I use this to my advantage?

I do believe this will create pressure in WH's affair since his visitation with DSs has to be without OW/kids present, though he has violated this, so who knows what the next 2 months will bring. I can only pray for continued chaos and turmoil in their affair.

Another concern I have is with Christmas... WH picks boys up at noon and will be going to his parents home ( I will miss this this year- I have gone there as well for the last 18 years). But, with how "chummy" OW and MIL are, what if MIL invites OW/kids to come to her home for Christmas? Yes it is a violation, but WH doesn't seem to care about these, nor have any of these been addressed by the judge.



BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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I would go, too, and bring my camera. Great evidence that they are violating his agreement. For now, that is STILL your family.

I wish more BWs would get mad and stubborn. I truly don't think WHs expect the little wife to stand up for herself. Honestly, I think it makes you look more attractive. As long as you can do it with grace.

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would go, too, and bring my camera.

I'm not invited this year... very hard for DS9 to understand.

WH can so get under my skin.... I know it's because I let WH... but still..

Why can't Wayward's show even one ounce of compassion?? My driveway is an incline, a year ago a natural spring has "sprung" at the top. It runs down the driveway and freezes, and with recent winter weather the driveway has become an ice shelf... and the water continues to run. So I decided to tackle this with an ice chopper, pick axe, shovel and 100 pounds of rock salt. I chopped through ice, dug a trench and got this accomplished. Several hours of very hard work and my body is still screaming from what I put it through. YAY for me.

At one point, WH arrives with boys to get snow boards. I would like to think he would have had some compassion to offer to help.... but none, nada, zip!!! I just don't understand this. He is out having fun instead. DS9 came home later and didn't have any homework done.

And tonight.... WH returns my call informing him of DS15 induction into Honor Society ceremony later this week. I asked WH to get hay for bedding for HIS hunting dog that he abandoned as well when he moved out a year ago. He responds with an arrogant laugh (I don't know how else to explain it), but I did remind WH that it was HIS dog. I doubt he will.

And lately I just can't help but to think that maybe it's time to throw in the towel... but I still find myself holding on this ride for dear life... idk.

As far as court trial... WH never notified Scout master of trial being adjourned to February. I did give him a heads up, and also suggested (b/c I'm angry and feeling vindictive) taht he show up at courthouse and act surprised that it was cancelled. Then forward WH a bill for lost wages/time off from work.

Is WH responsible for informing scout master of next court trial?? Will he need to deliver another subpoena?

Just venting.....


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Did you specifically talk to your FIL and ask him if you were invited?

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Give your kids disposable camera's to take with them ostensibly so they can get some pictures of the festivities to share with you since you can't go.

Also...can't your attorney file a "show cause" motion...petitioning WH to come to court and "show cause" why he keeps violating the order and, again ostensibly, to get the judge to instruct him in no uncertain terms to stop violating the judge's orders. Even if you just file the motion prior say, next monday, the hearing won't take place until after Christmas but WH might straighten up on Christmas at the direction of his attorney.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
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Cat-
If MIL doesn't invite me, then FIL will not either.

Mr. W-
I love the idea of disposable cameras for the boys, they will each get one to take with them. I did talk with my boys and told them that if OW and her kids were present during Christmas and the weekend while with their dad they should call me and I will come and pick them up.

Unfortunately my att'y is unavailable due to recovery from surgery until after holidays.

Yesterday DS15 had school bowling match and I get there to see last 1/2 hour. Of course, WH/OW, IL's, and BIL were all there in a little group together. At first I stayed on the far end to watch DS15 and then I got angry and territorial within a few minutes. So, I walked over to the lanes where DS15 was bowling and stood right in front of all of them.

I am also in such a "funk" due to WH's response regarding his dog (few posts back). I thought nothing is supposed to come between a man and his dog (aren't there songs about this??); except I guess the OW, maybe she's replacing the dog in his life. He certainly has walked away from everything....

Dreading Christmas Day... not sure how to get through it once the boys leave at noon to be with WH for the weekend. This will be the first time ever that I haven't spent all of Christmas with DSs. I have family that I can travel to, but it will be the longest hour ride to get there.


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Perhaps you could send WH an email telling him he has until Jan 2nd or so to come get HIS dog or you will be taking it to the pound. Indicate that if he knows he doesn't want it now to let you know and you will list the dog on Craig's list so the dog has a chance of being adopted out. Be sure to indicate that he's out come January...either way.

Then, if the boys get upset, you just put it on your WH (where it belongs)...."Boys...your father doesn't want his dog any more, it's not my dog and I don't want to take of it". Just maybe the boys will indicate that they will completely take care of him ... but tell them to wait to see if WH steps up and takes it before you'll allow them to keep him.

In the alternative, the boys could just take the dog with them on Christmas with directions that the dog is not allowed back. WH can do what he wants with him. If the dog comes back anyway...get a stack and leave him outside and email WH telling him his dog is freezing to death outside and he better come get him or you'll call the pound. The dog is NOT reentering your home.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
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I heard some "intel" from WH's atty to WH, but I don't know exactly what WH asked his atty (I can only infer). I would like some interpretations of this to see if I'm not too far off the mark with my interpretation.... the why WH called his atty, and what to do if WH follows atty's advice...

But, first thing's first...

Mr. W- Great advice and I would love to be able to do this, but...

The boys and I discussed this last night and they are heartbroken (there were tears involved to pull at my heart strings) to think that we would get rid of it because WH doesn't want it. There was a comment made by DS12 that "not only did Dad leave us, but he left his dog, that's not right" NO, DS12 it's not right. Such a loaded statement from DS12. DS12 then says that if he could he would get in WH's face and give him the finger. We then discussed respect and I had all I could do to keep a straight face b/c I kept picturing DS12 doing this... MY BAD!!! All 3 DSs stated they would take care of it, they also want to try and housebreak this dog (purebred beagle). DS15 even has secured the use of a dog crate from a friend. I'm just like "WOW, they've really been thinking about this". So, after the holidays we will try this first.

Now what I heard;

"Hi, WH, the trial is pushed back so far because the court calendar is filled up with other hearings. February is the earliest. You should talk with her (me) about setting the boys up with counseling to get them introduced to this other woman, umm "OW's name". Case law supports this and you don't want to continue to give her (me) too much control in this."

Interpretations please.

But I must comment on the getting the boys introduced to OW... WH has certainly violated visitation to do this over in past months... so I wonder if his atty heard about these from law guardian and my atty, and said something to him about these. Since his last direct violation, there have been none in 3 weeks(there are still phone calls, texts to OW while boys are on visitation and having OW with him at boys' functions during "non-visitation")

How should I respond if WH asks about the counseling for the boys? This is exactly what DSs Law Guardian recommended in July at the last hearing, but WH adamently refused this.... because it was my "ploy at reconciling".

Mr. W, I even said to myself "WWWD?".... LOL.


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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If you have a recording of this conversation I would get it to the Law Guardian and demonstrate that the attorney and WSTBX are in contempt and treating the well-being of these boys as something to be manipulated and leveraged for control.

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