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Please understand that I'm aware of a woman's need for love, affection, tenderness, cleanliness and all of that. I am not a neanderthal. But does it really have to be complicated that a normal sex life is almost impossible? Kinda sad.

I find this to be wrong wrong wrong. Yes an ignorant or inexperianced man would think that it is so hard or complex to get it done and get the sex that they need. No it is not complex. No it is not complicated.

What helps is good communication about sex and a good strong relationship with two unselfish spouses.

IF sexuality in marriage is really tough, usually it is the tip of the iceberg and reveals other more difficult even heinous problems between the spouses. For example in the midst of selfishness, addictions, bad communication, or things like this NOTHING in marriage is able to go smoothly much less sex.

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Most likely there are MORE THAN A FEW MINOR LB's GOING on if one spouse is whining about lack of sex and the other spouse does not seem to recognize sexual needs.

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If a woman (or her husband) is a selfish person, then nothing in the marriage will go well...nothing in the marriage will "seem to be fair" and many problems will result.....including sexual problems.


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Well, women are "supposed" to be complicated. Women are "supposed" to have all kinds of emotional hangups about sex. Women aren't "supposed" to enjoy it as easily as men. I'm really not sure if that is physiologically and psychologically true of women, or if a lot of women believe they are supposed to be that way and so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I know what you mean, but I think if you have someone who was raised in a decent home with decent parents, who takes care of themself and who has good self confidence, all these things won't matter when they're with someone they love and trust in a healthy marriage.

I'm sure it feels exasperating and frustrating that Jupiter seems to need to be aligned with Mars for the sparks to fly, but I think that maybe this is how it's all designed to be. Maybe we're supposed to work on ourselves and our treatment of others in order to be rewarded for it.


Sooly

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Bubbles, it is obvious you are coming from the perspective of a woman who is open to and interested in a good sexual relationship. So based on that starting point it is reasonable to conclude that a bad sex life is the manifestation of larger problems in the marriage.

Trust me, there are lots of women out there who are completely happy in their marriage, but have little or no sexual desire. This idea that a happy marriage necessarily leads to female sexual desire is incorrect. And frankly, I think it is a convenient way to presume male fault. It allows women to take the position that never having interest in sex literally starting on the wedding night is somehow the man's fault.

Again, Bubbles, this obviously doesn't apply to you. But don't naively assume that all women are as well intentioned or emotionally balanced as you.

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Ok, Ok. I will concede with yo ladies on here. I know this to be true, it just isn't/wasn't in our M. My wife was selfish and has admitted it and is doing her best to redeem herself.

I was lousy at sex when I was younger, but was ALWAYS into what the woman wanted because I knew I could O when I wanted and I did/do like foreplay more than the climax (which I consider the icing on the cake, not the other way around). I've always been a generous lover and my wife has always said I know just what to do when we did it. The problem was getting to the point of initiation. She was non responsive, out right said no, or did not make herself available so it wasn't the foreplay to get her in the mood, we never got to the foreplay part!!! She got what she wanted in our M, and didn't care about what I wanted or needed.

We talked until we were blue, she had her list of things that had to happen and I can say ALL of those things would get checked off the list and we still would not have SF. Then a new list or something else was added and I can say it would literally get checked off. After 13 years of it, she can no longer put anything on that list unless it was way way out there like a mansion in Beverly Hills. She has realized that the list is complete, she has no excuses and I'm withdrawing.

LA was right when she said my W did it with a frenzy because of the EA I got into, it worked I might add. When we are doing it regularly I feel unconquerable, she sees this and loves how I am, but I refuse to tell her it's enough because she'll revert back to me saying it was enough and will stop.

I am very envious of the H who have sexual wives, I should've waited to find one, and thought I had one. I was tricked!

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You can whine
You can cry
If you continue this...
Sex won't fly

If you pick a nice loving spouse
And you dont act like a louse
You can learn to please your mate
Open up that sexual gate

Learn and learn and learn some more...
What is the key that will open thier door!
As you talk about how to make it better
She will want you and get wetter

You can develop the sex life you need
If you are smart and brave indeed
Be interested in learning how
A woman reacts and what she wants NOW!

You can do this, don't be afraid
Touch your spouse right and make the grade
Learn what makes your wife's heart sing.
Then, forever after, you will have everything!!!

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Trust me, there are lots of women out there who are completely happy in their marriage, but have little or no sexual desire.

OK, I give you this. But if a woman is unselfish, she will realize her husband DOES need sex. And he will let her know he needs and wants to make love. And they will both communicate well and compromise to make it work for both.

SHE COULD HAVE NO DESIRE AND STILL LEARN TO PLEASE HER HUSBAND.

This idea that a happy marriage necessarily leads to female sexual desire is incorrect.

(I never said this was true, it takes more than a happy marriage. It takes a lot to get to the good sex...take it from me it took three years to figure out the sex issues in my marriage)

And frankly, I think it is a convenient way to presume male fault.

WHO SAID THIS??? I never heard this before.

It allows women to take the position that never having interest in sex literally starting on the wedding night is somehow the man's fault.


WOW WHY would women want to continually BLAME MEN!!!??? UNLESS YOU ARE A BLAMER AND SIMPLY WANT TO BLAME OTHER PEOPLE. GET A CLUE AND LEARN ABOUT EACH OTHER. PLEASE. YOU CAN EACH GET WHAT YOU NEED. No need to blame anyone!!!

Last edited by Bubbles4U; 12/30/09 04:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by swanman2010
Thanks Chick. One question for you. Do you think sometimes we humans fulfill stereotypes simply because we buy into the stereotype? For example, men are stereotyped as sex-crazed, testosterone driven creatures who can't keep their pants on either before or after marriage. A lot of people (including parents) buy into this, and use that as an excuse for promiscuity and/or infidelity. I refused to buy that stereotype. I was a virgin when I got married, and I have been faithful to my wife for all 18 years of our marriage. So, how does this apply to women?

Well, women are "supposed" to be complicated. Women are "supposed" to have all kinds of emotional hangups about sex. Women aren't "supposed" to enjoy it as easily as men. I'm really not sure if that is physiologically and psychologically true of women, or if a lot of women believe they are supposed to be that way and so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Please understand that I'm aware of a woman's need for love, affection, tenderness, cleanliness and all of that. I am not a neanderthal. But does it really have to be complicated that a normal sex life is almost impossible? Kinda sad.

I don't buy into stereotypes as a general rule. My nickname is The AntiChick for a number of really good reasons. My general style of relating to people is a more "masculine" one. My H's is a more "feminine" one. Gets weird at our house sometimes. smile

For the record, I enjoy sex as much as any guy. I could recount stories that would more than prove that, but they're not appropriate for this forum. I've never bought into any bogus theory that women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, and neither do any of my close friends.

Is it *supposed* to be complicated? Heck, no!

Now - here's the reality of the situation. I can name you roughly 30 female friends of mine from high school through today that I've been close enough to discuss sexual topics with. Of those 30, exactly TWO - COUNT `EM - T-W-O - had *NOT* been molested by a family member or friend of the family by the time they got to high school (and I'm not one of the 2). At least half of us had been date raped in high school or college. A couple had been victims of a more violent rape. Less than a half dozen of us had anything approaching a healthy education about sex or our bodies from our parents. Few of us saw healthy relationships being modeled in our own families - close or extended, and sex in our generation (I'm 40) was a verboten topic of discussion with our parents. Most of us who were abused were told not to discuss it or to forget it, and didn't get any therapy until we were adults and sought it on our own. Many of us who were abused were told that it didn't really happen. I didn't grow up in some inner city streets, either. I'm an upper middle class, WASP princess, as are almost all the women I'm talking about.

Now, I don't want to come off like some screaming feminist, but the fact is that our society denigrates women. Abuse of women is tolerated and denied, and the messages about our sexuality are confusing to say the least. We're told when we're young that we're not supposed to think about sex, or touch ourselves or want sex - and then once we're married BOOM we're supposed to flip a switch. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. And physiologically and psychologically speaking, womens' sexuality just simply isn't wired the same way mens' is. Now, some women will have a more masculine sexuality, just as some men have a more feminine sexuality (and I'm not talking about homosexuality here, just the manner of interaction and processing) but stereotypes evolve out of kernels of truth. The biggest sexual organ for humans is the brain, and this is *especially* true for women. Generally speaking, you don't turn a woman on by grabbing her crotch, or by showing her a naked man (last chicken in the shop look, anyone?). You turn a woman on with words and non-sexual caresses. Multitudes of studies have been done about this - it's not just a stereotype.

So yes. Women *do*, BY AND LARGE, have a lot of baggage about sexuality. But it's not because they're women. It's because they're women IN THIS SOCIETY.

/ off rant


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All the ANTICHICK Says is true in my experiance!

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I still think a lot of this has to do with self confidence. A woman who likes her own body won't be so reluctant to bare it and allow her man to be pleased by it and vice versa as long as he's treating her well.

The other biggie is affection. Women generally hate to be pounced on in bed and would rather the foreplay start way earlier, with gentle gestures of appreciation of her body in words and caresses throughout the day. Women need affection. It's a huge part of their foreplay. It seems like men tend to think that anything blatantly sexual that doesn't include intercourse is foreplay.

Why don't you guys try an experiment. Every hour, approach your wives and either say something appreciative about their looks, kiss their necks or their palms, or caress their breasts or rumps with their clothes on. A few minutes before bed, tell her something like you've got a painful HO and need her in bed asap. Try ravaging your wives for heaven's sake. The odds are pretty darn good that they'll LOVE it.


Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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"A painful HO?????"

LOL<LOL<LOL!!!

How bout just "act like a HO"????

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TAC,

Come on. I see your point, but let's look at sit coms and commercials and dramas. Society treats men like stupid apes (Geico?) that are only good for making fun of and are so stupid they don't know when they are made fun of. Women are protrayed as smart, fit, wise, ambitious, funny, loving...

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ROFLMAO. I meant hard on. Oh well. Guess my efforts at discretion were wasted. grin

Last edited by Soolee; 12/30/09 04:31 PM.

Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Bubbles, where to start?

A woman with no sex drive cannot satisfy a man because if a man's wife has no sexual desire for him it is a personal affront. "I love you but don't desire sex with you" is the ultimate oxymoron as far as a man is concerned.

And as far as the blame game goes, when there is a problem in marriage there is always some source of the problem. If I understand you correctly, you believe a poor sex life can be "blamed" on other marriage problems. I am simply saying there are lots of women who are happy in marriage but don't want sex. You grudgingly agreed, but then still went on to say it can be fixed. No, it can't be fixed if one spouse simply doesn't feel enough toward the other spouse to conjure up some sexual desire.

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Originally Posted by Soolee
Every hour, approach your wives and either say something appreciative about their looks, kiss their necks or their palms, or caress their breasts or rumps with their clothes on. A few minutes before bed, tell her something like you've got a painful HO and need her in bed asap. Try ravaging your wives for heaven's sake. The odds are pretty darn good that they'll LOVE it.

Wow. Just imagining my H doing that off and on all evening while we're doing other things gets my pulse rate up 10 points.

Though I will issue my warning about the breasts - some women do not appreciate uninvited touches there. It became a HUGE issue with my H and me.


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Depends. Are you looking for verbal affirmations of desire or actions? You don't get to know what's going on in your wife's head unless she tells you. Why are you assuming you know what she's thinking? It sounds like your self confidence is dependent on your wife's sexual desire. Could be this has become a catch 22 for you. Perhaps your lack of self confidence has turned her off.

Last edited by Soolee; 12/30/09 04:34 PM.

Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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MUD, so true. Women buy the products as they sit at home watching all the shows. So men are portrayed as stupid, etc. I hate it.

That show, "Everyone hates RAymond" was based on that. Women just love that show (I hate it and I am a woman)

Some women give ALL US WOMEN a bad name. I am unappy when I meet some selfish sex hating women who rule thier men with an iron hand. I hate this.

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Well...I get ya there. I was visualizing actual caresses along the sides of the breasts and no (editing) fancy stuff, please.

Last edited by Soolee; 12/30/09 04:41 PM.

Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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A woman with no sex drive cannot satisfy a man because if a man's wife has no sexual desire for him it is a personal affront. "I love you but don't desire sex with you" is the ultimate oxymoron as far as a man is concerned.

Hey take it from me, in our marriage this was opposite. I was the woman who wanted my man to desire me. I had to get over the fact that IT WAS NOT PERSONAL in order to move on to what we needed to do and communicate about to solve the problem.

you believe a poor sex life can be "blamed" on other marriage problems Perhaps. Bad communication is no ones fault however.


No, it can't be fixed if one spouse simply doesn't feel enough toward the other spouse to conjure up some sexual desire.

This is the bottom line. If a spouse does not care enough then they do not love you enough to be married! Why put up with a spouse who does not love you enough to be married!!!!GEEZE

Last edited by Bubbles4U; 12/30/09 04:39 PM.
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