BBML, it seems to me that you are trying to separate your emotions from the rest of you, somehow. I don't quite see how someone can do this. You strike me as wanting to approach some sort of "remedy" by using a calm, logical approach, and deal with the turmoil of emotions you're feeling quite apart from that.

Can that really be done? I have noticed many newcomer betrayed spouses arrive her and proclaim, "Oh, but I could never do that. S/he would get so angry and that would just be the final straw that broke the camel's back." This is part of the "fog" that affects both spouses.

Speaking only for myself, trying to keep my emotions separate from my actions was a major part of my putting my WW into an emotional state that made her susceptible to having an A. The problem becomes an inner conflict that gets harder and harder to maintain.

You may not want to work the MB program, and that's fine. It's your call. But as long as you say one thing and do another, be prepared for the inevitable .

I'm being totally serious. I don't understand what you want.

I can completely see your stance. I am also in the beginning stages of recognizing certain strengths and weaknesses in myself, my WW and our M.

I AM hoping that based on Dr. Harley's teachings, I can demonstrate some level of action and consequence. PLEASE keep in mind, as many of you may know, these are not necesarily behaviors my heart and head want me to abide by. It IS SO difficult, which is why it took me so long to post. I AM looking for guidance. Not rigid adherence, as that will come in time-just like my own acceptance and determination will in time. Am I supposed to trust YOU all blindly? I did my wife.

Do you see the angle I am coming from?

I want to learn from you all, to get a better understanding of the whole process, but I have to admit-one foot in front of the other has been difficult. God, I am being HONEST!!!

However, in your experience, if you think my expressions are not acceptable and not suitable, let me know. I sincerely do NOT want to waste anyone's time. Mine included. I am just beyond sad and confused.

Thank you

I want to know that I am not alone. I want to know how to separate my anger from my love. I can NOT do plan A in the state I am in. I want to know there is grace.

Well, I can't help you with that so much. But let's see if this helps.

So you have a wife who hurt you, who hasn't gone to any length to make it up to you, and who blames you for causing it.

And you have done nothing since D-day. Just co-existed. And things are festering. Do I have it right?

Assuming that, let me explain the philosophy here, and why it works. Why you have to step outside your comfort zone and do things that don't come naturally, to see results, to get your wife out of her fog and back to who she used to be.

First, exposure makes affairees admit that they have been lying and cheating; it makes the affair not as much fun; it makes them question their actions and hopefully, stop the affair.

Failing that, telling the WS that you will only stay married if she is willing to adhere to extraordinary precautions - giving you all her passwords, handing over her cell phone for viewing or else reading the phone records, putting a GPS or VAR in her car to ensure she is no longer seeing OM - are all things to make YOU feel better about not divorcing her. It keeps you sane and lets you feel you aren't a total doormat. It keeps you from growing to hate her. If she is unwilling to the EPs, then you will end up divorcing anyway.

Telling your children what she has done, and her parents and siblings, does many things. It helps the kids understand what's going on so they don't blame themselves for the 'issues' going on in the house as they normally will do when parents don't tell them the truth. It teaches them that cheating is wrong and hopefully keeps them from repeating her actions as adults. It gets the relatives to keep an eye out to make sure they don't see her gravitating toward another affair, now that you know she's capable of it.

And finally, it causes her to go through the one thing she needs most - humility. If you've been reading here, you'll know by now that if a wayward doesn't own up to her devastation, she will be twice as likely to do it again. We simply HAVE to accept consequences in order to learn and grow. If you give her no consequences, you are setting yourself up for another D-Day down the road. It really is that simple. And it is psychological.

Does that make more sense?

fwiw, it sounds an awful lot from here like you are trying really hard not to upset the cart, like it is YOU who is afraid of losing HER and therefore are letting her stay with you without having to own what she did to you.

Zelmo,

In reading your post, I may be able to rest tonight. You are truly insightful and somehow made me feel hopeful, instead of this pit of rage in my stomach. Thank you for your words.

~J

Your quote above is the reason you should expose this to anyone with influence over her.

I fought this battle from 11/07 until 02/09. It took me too long to expose and my FWW had too many ways to hide things from me. I went through multiple D-days with her and each just made me more crazy.

I think you said that she gave you her passwords which is a good sign. I would highly suggest installing a keylogger on her computer so you can see if she opens another email account or any other way to contact OM. Trust me I have been through it if she wants to contact him or fill the void with someone else she will find a way. I'm speaking from experience here.

On the anger thing. I don't know if it ever goes away I assume it will because it has become less and less for me as time has gone on. But the biggest reason it has become less is because of her actions in the past 11 months. I finally have my old W back. Sure I still look at her and can't believe what she has done but since she will talk with me about it now it helps me get through my rough moments.

You said you have been looking here for awhile now. Have you read any of the books? The one that really got me thinking about my marriage was "Love Buster's". That was the first one I read but it really opened my eyes to some of the things I had been doing. Since you say you are a private person I think this book would be good for you. If you don't want to buy it you can get it a the local library.

Catperson,
Thankyou for the explanation-sincerely, and I have read EVERYTHING!!!

I am in the medical field, I am no stranger to psychology. I am also not afraid of upsetting anyone, but if I am in the wrong place I want to know. Everything has it's benefit as far as knowledge is concerned. I am NOT enabling her. I am living with a friend, not with her. And for certain, the kids do not need to know. They are 6 and 8 and they DO NOT need to "understand" adult behaviors, IMHO, that would confuse and destroy them. They KNOW she loves them, they KNOW I love them, they know Mommy made Daddy sad and Daddy needs some time to think about things. Mommy admitted that she hurt Daddy really bad. Please, they are innocent.

I have been reading on this group because Harley's words are clear.

I am just not sure that you can handle anyone that questions how to navigate these teachings. I do NOT want to upset anyone on here since this is a place for understanding and support. Each individual is different and needs to be heard individually with care. I feel if someone feels someone is not on the right path, they help. I feel you have Cat, and I appreciate it, but I also feel you are angry too.

Hello blindedbymylove

I am sorry to see you have joined the club that nobody wants to belong to. I can only imagine how your raw your emotions are right now. It is never and enjoyable experience to come face to face with rejection and betrayal. You may need some time to let your nerves settle.

What you will receive at this forum is step by step information on the actions a betrayed spouse can take to save ones marriage. The approach adopted here has been tested and proven successful for a number of people here. It is also proven helpful for those that are trying to get their bearings from the travesty of adultery. What you have experienced is the triage team trying to help you. Just like in a car accident when you call for help people leap into action to try and stabilize the situation. In the case of adultery the first step toward stabilization is Plan A. You do not have to accept this course of treatment. However just like in real life when you refuse the medical treatment offered you may not get better.

So you have said and I am sure the posters here will respect your wishes but you do not want to expose or do Plan A. OK in regards to this process you have just told people you do not want to stop the bleeding and to put the bandages back on the cart. So if people are a little confused that is why. It appears you do not want to participate in the process that Marriage Builders espouses.

I would like to understand what you mean by this. Plan A is an action. Exposure is an action. These are key actions you need to address. What consequence are you talking about. There are consequences by exposing. There are numerous examples where exposure has stopped the affair cold as affairs thrive in secrecy. Is the other person married? The proper thing to do is notify the other mans wife if he is.

I believe cat is sincere in wondering then how we can help. We know you are hurting. I can also imagine you may be in denial and probably angry and defensive. Most here can understand where you are at. So how can we help you as you lay there bleeding. What do you want us to do?


Have you read the articles on this website? You should also get the book Surviving an Affair. It will give you a better understanding of the process. There are several other books that can help like His Needs Her Needs.

I guess I would also suggest "Surviving and Affair". Really all of the books are good but that one and the other I suggested helped me the most.

On telling you kids. I agree with you that they don't need to know at this point. But at the same time they are old enough to understand that married people should not have a boyfriend/girlfriend.

A story from my past here. The end of January last year I finally told my, at the time WW, to F-off. I told her I was going to tell our girls the truth that mommy had a boyfriend and married people shouldn't. She fought me on this and her parents who were on my side fought me on this. I actually yelled at her mom about this. Well we sat down and told the girls we were splitting up and gave no reason. My 7 year old right when we said we weren't going to live together again looked at me and said "this is what daddy wants". Her statement there just tore my heart right out of my chest more than anything my wife had done to me. My mother in law called the next day to see how I was doing with the girls since my wife had left. I told her about the night before when we told the girls and how the blame got put on me and my mother in law started bawling. She said I didn't want you to tell them why you were separating but now I see why you wanted to tell them.

I don't think you kids need to know right now. But if you end up and the point of splitting up give it some serious thought.

bbml,

You should not separate your anger from your love. There is a famous quote that you may well come to live.

Your anger and your love are intertwined because you are hurt, you are in pain, you are frustrated, you are anxious. These emotions are the primary ones that drive anger. The reason this is happening now is because it appears that your W has done little to reassure you. She has simply threatened you, with knuckling under and doing it HER way or she will divorce you.

Let me ask you a few questions.

1. How do you know that the affair is over and there is no contact? What plan does she have to prove this to you? You cannot accept her word, she is a known liar. She lies to you, she lies to herself, and frankly she has been lying to her children if she has allowed them to think that she cares for their Dad.

2. How is your W making herself accountable for her time?

3. Is she seeking an counseling or guidance on how to deal with what she has done? If so what? If not, why not? Since you are in the medical field you know the old saying "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient."

4. If her affair is continuing or there is contact YOU MUST EXPOSE THE AFFAIR FURTHER. Affairs prosper in the darkness of lies and deceit. You have to stop that to protect your children. So what is your plan if the affair continues or contact continues???

5. Has she discussed how she allowed her boundaries to be crossed? Has she stated how a moral, good, mother and Wife, has come to violate her vows, and her OWN MORALS? If not, why not?

6. You need to do some more reading here if you think this place is cookie cutter. For one thing if you would counsel with one of the Harleys (WHICH I RECOMMEND HIGHLY) you will be surprised at the variety of approaches they will suggest. BUT, what you don't seem to understand is that you and your W are just like the 10's of thousands that have come her before. The BS and the WS say the exact same things. The WS will say verbatim exactly what most of us have seen on this site over and over and over. The reason the method works is because all of this crap is exactly the same and it smells just the same.

If you think you are unique, or your W is unique or your situation is unique you are sadly mistaken. You may be special in your work life, but here you are sadly just like so many others. I would strongly encourage you to read and read and you will begin to see this.

7. Finally, I will ask you a very important question. What are your plans to handle this? What actions are you going to take? I would strongly encourage to read a few things on this site. One is Harley's two policies: The policy of radical honesty and the policy of joint agreement. They are actually negotiating tools and you will need them. Then I suggest you read his four rules for a good marriage and evaluate how you and your W have been doing this 10 years. They are very common sense and I am certain Harley didn't invent them, but he has placed the ideas in an easily digested form.

After that read about the love bank and about needs. Once you have done this you should have the tools to make plans for a good marriage with the woman you are married to now, or some woman in the future. This site is not marriage at all costs, but it is growth and learning at all costs.

Finally, your children already know there is a problem. They will see demons in the shadows in ways you cannot imagine. They may think the fighting is about them. They may think one of your will harm the other. They may just have nightmares. Most children deal with truth, facts, and such much better. But, if you speak with them about what is going on, you must do it in an age appropriate manner. You are trying to give them some control in their lives NOT scar them for life.

There is so much to say, but first we need to know what your W is doing to address the decisions she has made and the consequences of those decisions. Oh! one last thing that I think you have gotten confused.

You may have read about allowing the WS feel the consequences of their decisions. It is exactly the right thing to do. However, it is not up to you to create those consequences far from it. If you have decided to fight for this marriage, your job is act in ways that: end the affair, address her withdrawal from OM, work with her to rebuild this marriage in a manner that is a win-win for you both. Exposure is not about revenge or even her feeling consequences. Exposure is YOU seeking help from friends and family to try and save the marriage. If you expose you should be requesting their help in speaking with her and supporting your marriage. That is what exposure is about. Will she like it? Heck no! You will hear what most everyone does hear: "I was going to work on the marriage but now I'm leaving", "There is no hope for this marriage now" etc. They all say these things because they are hurt and you have removed their drug of choice from their grasp.

Hang in there BBML, but do the reading and start with planning. The folks here will help you all they can. Ask lots of questions especially about things you don't understand.

God Bless,

JL

Why would you think I'm angry? Have I been rude to you? I don't care what you do, I don't know you. I was just extending more explanation because you seem to be questioning all the suggestions here as though they do no good. So I was explaining why they work.

IMO, you are feeling all this anger you describe in you because YOU aren't getting anything out of the situation. You have done nothing wrong, yet you are the one without your family. But you also have the opportunity to do something about it. And you choose not to. So of course you will feel angry. I will tell you that of all the people who've come here and have taken steps, at least 95% of them have come back and said how grateful they were that they were urged to take action, because it gave them a sense of doing something rather than standing aside and watching their WS wreak devastation in everyone's lives.

IMO, it is that inaction that is causing you the most pain.

fwiw, I think it may be the way you write that is confusing people. You're obviously very highly educated, very introspective, and very confident in your beliefs. But you ask about anger and feelings, and we try to explain why following the methods here can alleviate that anger; then you say you don't want to, so we say then why are you here? What else can we suggest to you other than what we've learned here that works?

Sometimes people come here, read, and move on. That's certainly your choice. Yet you're still here. So we're giving you the advice based on what we have seen work over and over. *shrug* What is it you expect us to advise you with, if you say you don't want to use the MB method? You're at the MB site.

I guess my best advice is to keep looking until you find a site that offers what you're looking for.

You will not recover your marriage for many reasons. Because you live apart. You won't expose. You won't tell your kids. You only want to hear that your course of action is the right one to take.

You refuse to believe the knowledge of those that have been there, seen that, did this, done that, and bought the T shirt. MB works if you do MB. Which you refuse to do.

Good points from Pepper and Cat. I've noticed the same thing - sometimes very intelligent people refuse to consider taking a course of action that seems contrary to what their logical mind is telling them. As a matter of fact, another person in the medical field was on here not too long ago who refused to consider MB principles, as well. He argued and argued over why he should NOT listen to people who were successful in recovering their Ms using these principles. He hasn't been back.

Maybe you'll save your M just by existing. Maybe not. Good luck.

Why not blinded? What is it about your understanding of plan A that you could not do?

Many are reluctant about exposure but believe me it is the best weapon in a BS's armoury, not only to end the A and maintain NC but also to get the WS to really see the reality of what they have done. Only when a WS truly sees and feels the devastation that they have caused do you have a chance of truly recovering your M.

I intuitivley did a nuclear exposure to EVERYONE we knew as well as OW's friends and family. It was the best thing I did because reality truly hit home when my FWH had to face the consequences of his poor decisions, and he was told what a loser he had been by everyone he cared about and respected.

The other part of plan A for me was being the best person I could be. For no-one else but me. My H's A also gave me a huge dose of reality and I faced up to my deficiencies as a wife. I didn't particularly like who I'd become in our M so I vowed to be more like the person I was when we first got together. I hadn't been particularly happy and I wanted happiness and contentment. The only logical place to start on your journey towards happiness is YOU.

I liked being a wife and mother. I liked my place in the world but I didn't like what I'd become in living this life so there was plenty room for improvement in me. What was a revelation to me was how happy it made me to make others happy and how I got back what I gave in bucketloads. I felt so much better when I controlled my bad behaviours and found that when I did this, my FWH behaved better too. We then wanted to spend much more time together and started to feel "in love" with each other again.

In essence, this is the other part of Plan A. Be the best YOU you can be. Meet your wife's top EN's, avoid LB'ers, increase the time you spend together and try to make it enjoyable.

This is your best shot at repairing your marriage. You have THE BEST motivation to do this, as counter intuitive as it sounds. Your two children who deserve parents who will give it their best shot in order to protect them from divorce.

And on that note, I would comment that Divorce will hurt them far more than the truth of their mothers behaviour, your marriage and therefore their lives.

I wish you much luck in your journey, but remember that we make our own luck.

I am sorry for your pain and sorry that you find yourself here but this is the best place to be if you want a recovered marriage IF you take the advice offered.

'BBML', sucks brother, yes it does. My Dday was Aug 26th and it still feels like yesterday.

My FWW's A's were 21 years ago, but the truth coming out 4 months ago cuts to my heart like she just had the A's 4 months ago.

I will admit I cried daily for over a month, and I don't care what anyone thinks. I am a big tattooed Marine and yes we do cry.

I was angry, daily. I wanted to thump a bunch of people, wife included.

My wife too blamed me for her A's until I learned that she was 'gas lighting' and 'blameshifting'. I learned that NOTHING A SPOUSE DOES JUSTIFIES SEX OUTSIDE OF YOUR MARRIAGE....NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING.

Does the anger go away? Well mine has throttled down a lot. Is recovery possible? If BOTH partners want it. Does the hurt go away, (even though you didn't ask that I will provide my opinion), my hurt is still very fresh. Maybe because mine was so long ago hurt is my biggest emotional feeling? Trust? I do trust her, and its slowly getting better, but I am not fully trusting, no.

Even though my FWW isn't as transparent as I'd like, she has been helping me with my mind movies and triggers more than in the past. We talk often of how to deal with triggers and mind movies....she does love me, (even though a few on here do not agree), and she is a good wife.

You BOTH have to be onboard for 'R' to be possible and she has to totally be over her 'A'....100%. She has to answer whatever questions you have, she has to be there for you.

Oh and they use that line often, on how we can't move forward in our marriages until we 'get over it'. My wife still says the same thing and she doesn't read books on the subject, it must be a natural human reaction to say that?