Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
I guess my question is, is it possible for someone with such a bad track record to change and be faithful forever? What is the best way of accomplishing that? She wants to change, and she will do whatever it takes.


See my previous posts particularly the bits you don't agree with.

She talks big but still has a wayward mindset.

If you think you are in recovery, be prepared for a lifetime of cheating from her.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
I'm going to put myself out there right now, which is going to leave myself open to a lot of criticism on this forum. But I feel like it's important in order to conveye the struggle I'm going through.

I've been married for only 5 years, and my wife now has had 2 affairs. That is not a good track record. I believe 1 strike is forgivable. 2 strikes is usually reason to leave. And 3 strikes, especially if it happens sometime in the next 5 years, is even to much for me to handle. As much as I love my wife, I recognize there is a terrible pattern here, and I'm still hopeful that this is a pattern which can be broken. If it happens a 3rd time, I will be sure that it can't be broken, and I'll need to move on. I still want to grow old have more kids with her, but I really need to let her know that I will not allow this anymore.

I know that many of you will say to leave her NOW, but I won't accept that. She's my best friend, we're on our way to a great recovery, she's reading all the MB material and building back my "love bank" which she stole from me (as I say). So this is not an option. But, it is a HUGE leap of faith that she will be faithful for me for the rest of our lives. It's a leap I'm willing to take.

I guess my question is, is it possible for someone with such a bad track record to change and be faithful forever? What is the best way of accomplishing that? She wants to change, and she will do whatever it takes.



I really think you need to allow her between 22.65 and 24.765 strikes before you can be sure that she is incapable of breaking the "pattern". Anything less is, IMO, jumping the gun. She obviously loves you and you should be able to get past a minor series of affairs in relatively short order. Otherwise, you run the risk of being "controlling".
Presumably, she only cheats because her emotional needs are not ebing met and that is all on you. puke

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
lol I knew that when I posted that I would get some insensitive responses. Do you really think it's necessary to say "Get used to other men pounding her"? Seriously, dude.

She had the first one after about 3 years of marriage. I actually didn't realize the full extent of it until this last one happened. I honestly didn't think she was capable of a PA, so I didn't even ask. That was my ignorance I guess. Anyway, after getting all the details about this A, I realized she WAS capable of it, so I asked her about the details of the previous one. She didn't have sex with the first guy, but he tried to. Again, he was my best friend. But, if I had known all the details of the first one, and I had gotten the advice from this site, then the second one would have NEVER gotten as far as it did. We would've created the necessary boundaries, and would have been able to avoid her ever becoming emotionally attached to the second guy. I guess I'm just learning the hard way.


BS (Me): 32
WW: 32
D-Day: 12/28/09 (fresh in my mind)
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
That's right. It is all your fault for not preventing her from cheating back then and not taking the proper anti-pounding measures. Poor woman just had no support. How the heck was she supposed to know that cheating was wrong?
That is why I say give her another couple dozen strikes, or so. Anything less would be insensitive.

Last edited by Zelmo; 01/13/10 07:01 PM.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
I guess I'm just learning the hard way.


I'd suggest some learning difficulties as well. But what the hell would I know.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: bigkahuna

She talks big but still has a wayward mindset.

If you think you are in recovery, be prepared for a lifetime of cheating from her.


So, how would you define a "wayward mindset", and why do you think she still has one? What defines "recovery" and why do you think I'm not in it? If I'm not in recovery, what am I in?


BS (Me): 32
WW: 32
D-Day: 12/28/09 (fresh in my mind)
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
Originally Posted By: bigkahuna

She talks big but still has a wayward mindset.

If you think you are in recovery, be prepared for a lifetime of cheating from her.


So, how would you define a "wayward mindset", and why do you think she still has one? What defines "recovery" and why do you think I'm not in it? If I'm not in recovery, what am I in?


Denial. You have a serial cheating wife(you know of two affairs-tip of the iceberg IMO). She chose your best friend as a partner(pretty sadistic, wouldn't you agree?). She has had no therapy and has not volunteered for STD testing. She is jerking you around. Will she take a polygraph?

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
If I'm not in recovery, what am I in?


Denial.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 517
R
RMX Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 517
Originally Posted By: bigkahuna
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
If I'm not in recovery, what am I in?


Denial.


Listen to BK, he states the facts, no matter how painful they may be.
This is a marathon, not a sprint SS, please don't rush things.
Tis better to fix it right, than to fix it quick.


FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
DS 14, OC-D 12 (given up for adoption), DS-8, DD-5
D-Day#1 10-12-1998
D-Day#2 2-10-2008
Recovered!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
Denial about what? I ADMIT she has cheated twice. She IS in therapy now. And she HAS agreed to get tested for STD's. Listen, I'm not stupid. I know she has some SERIOUS issues with faithfulness, and I HAVE told her that her actions are unacceptable and that I will not stick around any longer if she f's up again. But, I also believe it's possible for someone to change if they want to. All I can do is hope that she chooses me and our children instead of the destructive lifestyle she's chosen. I don't know if the information on this site will help us or not, but I know that I want to be with her forever and she has indicated the same, so it's worth one more shot. But, I also know that I don't need her. I am strong enough to fight for our marriage, but I'm also strong enough to leave if it happens again. I have more respect for myself then to stay in an emotionally abusive relationship, and I've told her that. So, trust me, I MAY have been in denial for the last 2 years (since the first A), but I am not in denial today.


BS (Me): 32
WW: 32
D-Day: 12/28/09 (fresh in my mind)
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
Let me start off by talking about the state of our marriage. By all measures, we had a wonderful marriage until last month. We're both in our 30's, have been best friends since college, have fulfilling jobs in our fields, and have two beautiful kids, 1 and 5. We've always focused on having a long and happy life together, read marriage books, treat eachother with respect, support, and love. So what could go wrong?


This is demonstrably UNTRUE. She has been cheating almost the whole of your marriage - even during the "honeymoon period" She has most certainly NOT focussed on a long and happy life together. This is DENIAL. An affair is NOT respect support and love.

Quote:
So last month when a friend of mine who worked in Seattle offered to have lunch with her since she'd be there for a conference, I thought it was a really nice gesture, and didn't think anything of it whatsoever. But that was the start. They talked at lunch for an hour, and it really filled her "Love Bank". They continued to talk in the days after that.


Yet this was her second affair. How did you recover your marriage after her first affair? The patented well followed "head in the sand approach" I suppose. Lack of conversation may have been an issue but the reall issue was she was pulling her pants off for another man and had NO BOUNDARIES.

Quote:
A week later, she came to me and said that she was aquiring feelings for my friend, and vice versa. I was hurt, of course, but proud that she had come to me so quickly. They both promised to end communication and work on our own marriages instead. (He's also married with kids.)


This was DENIAL. have you called OM'sW BTW?

Quote:
A month has passed. But on Christmas Eve I caught her sending a naked picture of herself to him. After Christmas, she finally confessed to everything. She had been continuing the emotional affair for the last month, and had met him at his work to have sex one time (that I know of). I was, and still am devistated.


DENIAL. One time - uh huh. After the first time she cheated, how was she able to decieve you and send naked photos of herself to OM a MONTH after d-day #2????

You have convinced yourself you now have the truth = DENIAL.

Quote:
I won't ramble on to much, but I just need to say that my wife is worth fighting for. She screwed up, big time, and she knows it. She has confessed, she's remoresful, and we're working on gaining back the love and trust that was lost. We renewed our vows to eachother on New Years Eve, and we're doing everything we can to fix this.


Unbelievably HUGE DENIAL.

She has confessed SOME of her affair but I guarantee you there is a whole lot more down the rabbit hole.
How does she know she screwed up bigtime? What have been the consequences for her? I bet she does a GREAT line in waterworks and fauz remorse - she's pretty practiced in it after all. Then you renewed your vows a few weeks after d-day #2??? Are you insane? See this is DENIAL. You are deciding on the steps you see as being necessary for recovery and dragging her along for the ride. But that is all. She is not doing JACK to "fix this". It took my wife around SIX months before I knew she truely got it and understood she had screwed up. You are fooling no one here but yourself.

Quote:
The moral of the story is, if the "most important needs" aren't filled by you, they will find someone else to fill them. I wish I'd found this site earlier.


The important moral here is to be guided by her ACTIONS not what she SAYS.

You have very happily compartmentalised all of this into a 6 week time frame whereas if you REALLY work your butt off, you MIGHT be in a good place in oh... say..... 2 YEARS minimum from now.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
lol I knew that when I posted that I would get some insensitive responses. Do you really think it's necessary to say "Get used to other men pounding her"? Seriously, dude.

She had the first one after about 3 years of marriage. I actually didn't realize the full extent of it until this last one happened. I honestly didn't think she was capable of a PA, so I didn't even ask. That was my ignorance I guess. Anyway, after getting all the details about this A, I realized she WAS capable of it, so I asked her about the details of the previous one. She didn't have sex with the first guy, but he tried to. Again, he was my best friend. But, if I had known all the details of the first one, and I had gotten the advice from this site, then the second one would have NEVER gotten as far as it did. We would've created the necessary boundaries, and would have been able to avoid her ever becoming emotionally attached to the second guy. I guess I'm just learning the hard way.


So she LIED about the first one??? OMG!! How unusual for a WS to LIE. Yet you are oh ever so willing to believe her now. DENIAL

You know what - ask her to agree to a polygraph to examine her "faithfullness" in this marriage. and go through with it. I will be amazed if there is not a whole raft more facts and maybe even other affairs you do not know about.

DENIAL


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
I've been married for only 5 years, and my wife now has had 2 affairs. That is not a good track record. I believe 1 strike is forgivable. 2 strikes is usually reason to leave. And 3 strikes, especially if it happens sometime in the next 5 years, is even to much for me to handle. As much as I love my wife, I recognize there is a terrible pattern here, and I'm still hopeful that this is a pattern which can be broken. If it happens a 3rd time, I will be sure that it can't be broken, and I'll need to move on. I still want to grow old have more kids with her, but I really need to let her know that I will not allow this anymore.


Well one, two or three strikes isn't actually the point. If you don't deal with this properly - as you didn't last time - there may be 4, 5 or 6 or.......

Quote:
I know that many of you will say to leave her NOW, but I won't accept that.


And with good reason - she's a SERIAL cheater who cheated in the first DAYS of your marriage. She is a bad risk and is doing nothing other than the bare minimum to keep you appeased and not kicking her to the kerb. However this does not mean there is no hope.

Quote:
She's my best friend,


Yet you are not her best friend

Quote:
we're on our way to a great recovery


Not yet you're not! This is DENIAL.

Quote:
she's reading all the MB material and building back my "love bank" which she stole from me (as I say). So this is not an option.


Bare minimum is what she is doing and not even that.

Quote:
I guess my question is, is it possible for someone with such a bad track record to change and be faithful forever? What is the best way of accomplishing that? She wants to change, and she will do whatever it takes.


Well I posted some specifics to you and you blew me off. I already posted what it will take.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted By: StayingStrong32
BigK, great advice. I agree with most, and disagree with some.


This will be your undoing. Everything I posted is good MB advice. What exactly don't you agree with?

You see my friend, I've seen it all in the 4+ years I have been here. Including people who disappear only to return in a year or so saying OMG you were all right how could I be so stupid......

If you are smart you will listen and learn from people who have been there, done that, and have what you want - a great recovered marriage.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
One more thing before I go - if you look at my post history you will see that the majority of my posts could be written out double spaced on the back of a postage stamp but for some inexplicable reason I have posted quite a lot to you.

I wonder why!


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,245
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,245
There's a great way to fix this. Tell her you have to have her take a polygraph. That any marriage will have to be 100% honest hereon. If she refuses, then you have your answer on whether she's sincere.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
BK, I appreciate all the time you put into responding. I'll be really frank with you. . . .your advice doesn't help. You assume I'm in Denial because YOU were in denial so long. You assume my wife is lying still because YOUR wife lied to you for 3 years. You assume a lot of things, which just aren't true. My wife has been truthful about everything I've asked her about, and I've confirmed everything independantly of her statements. Where she was dishonest was by not telling me stuff when I didn't ask. And I never knew I had to ask in the past. Now I do. So, the "have her take a polygraph" comments are just annoying.

This forum has provided me with some great (and some not so great) guidance. As it now seems that the comments are less supportive and more projections of your own issues, I don't see a need to use this as a source for advice any longer. I will continue to use the MB resources, and I thank every user who has provided emotional support and constructive criticism. God willing, I will never need to post here again.


BS (Me): 32
WW: 32
D-Day: 12/28/09 (fresh in my mind)
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
DENIAL

rotflmao

And you couldn't be more wrong about my situation.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
WHOA, SS...If you think this forum is tough, look out for RECOVERY, my friend...No joke - it's not for wimps!

Listen, I am a FWW myself and I very much agree with the advice to have your wife take a polygraph - What they are telling you is TRUE - WAYWARDS LIE! If their lips are moving they are LYING...SS, if you were truly in recovery, you wouldn't have to ask or need the validation - you would KNOW - there is a shift in dynamic that is unmistakable - It is very much a TEAM EFFORT to protect the marriage and it's very obvious when it happens...

Will your wife post here?

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
It's not that I think the forum is to "tough", I just think there's a difference between a support group and a group that laughs at you because they think you're in "denial", redicules you for having any level of trust, attempts to turn you against the marriage you're trying to save, and then insults you if you don't take their advice. Maybe that's the way you long-timers roll. Frankly, I really can't see myself in this forum 5 years down the road ridiculing everyone who is struggling with infidelity, telling them how stupid and gullible they are, and trying to convince them to submit their WS to a polygraph. But, if that's what floats your boat, then so be it. Kindof pathetic if you ask me.


BS (Me): 32
WW: 32
D-Day: 12/28/09 (fresh in my mind)
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
2 members (anchorwatch, 1 invisible), 31 guests, and 64 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
CVT, Olivia 80, Brad344, Bobbyboy341, Steve123
71,697 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,536
Posts2,322,686
Members71,698
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5