Not sure if this is the right area to post. My husband and I have been married almost 19 years. About twelve years ago I had a couple of affairs. One was a one-night stand that lasted a weekend while he was out of town on business. The other was more serious and lasted for a few months before my husband stumbled on an AOL email in the trash bin. It took us a few years (without counseling bcz we didn't know better), but we managed to stick together. Looking back, we did a lot of things that MB suggests - and we had no idea as we muddled through it all. At first, we stayed together for the kids, and over time, I think our marriage evolved past staying together just for the kids. I make sure to have 100% transparency, and I am completely devoted to my husband and family. I have no urge to have an affair ever again, and I go out of my way to give him security.
The only real problem is when he triggers on something - usually once every other year it seems - maybe not even that frequent. He insists on quizzing me of the details of my affairs. I am guilty of not coming 100% clean with him. I am vague, and I minimize the gory details as much as I can. The first problem I have is that I don't exactly remember everything like I did 12 years ago, yet he does. The other issue I have is that he wants detail to the point of being explicit and graphic. This is where I draw the line and where he gets angry with me. I don't mind telling him where we did it or even how often. I just don't think it will help him or me to talk about anything past that. The way he asks the questions and the nature of the questions is crass coming from him. He is not himself. It's like another person comes over him. If he catches me in a white lie, then he grudges me for days until it gradually blows over. He already has images in his mind, and I can't imagine how any more graphic detail would help our situation. We are great except for a handful of days every few years like now. Any suggestions?

Hi Janda,

It's the weekend, so traffic is light and the "heavyweights" have likely called it a day.

However, I can offer you some reading material here to help you until they arrive once again.

The first is "Overcoming resentment." Another is "Can't We Just Forgive and Forget." Finally, you might want to read about the "Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After an Affair." All of these are articles by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr. The founder of Marriage Builders and this site.

The links to the right of the page, "Most Popular Links" will provide you with the information on the Basic Concepts of Marriage Builders and how MB can help you and your husband built a strong, loving marriage with unparalleled love and passion. But first you need to learn how to recover your marriage from your affairs, as they are still a gaping wound and are blocking full recovery.

The veterans will be along shortly. Read and learn, then read and learn some more.

This is a great place to be, and a great place to find answers.

You are in the right place Janda.
I second what fred said.

I'm only 1 year into my own marital recovery, therefore still very new at this, so I can't quite relate to your longer-term situation. However, it seems to me that a key to regaining trust is by being as open & honest about your past as you possibly can -- what the Harleys call "radical honesty."

In radical honesty, you don't get to choose what info you spill ... your spouse does. Early-on, a betrayed spouse can be unwilling to press for details b/c they're afraid of what they'll hear, and/or b/c they're afraid of driving the wayward spouse further away.

But the "gray area" will continue to gnaw at them. If you haven't filled up that space in his mind with factual info, then your husband is likely creating his OWN images, which may be even a degree or so worse than they actually were (which was bad enough, I'm sure).

He's stuck it out with you long enough for you to be able to trust him to stick around a little further. However (it seems to me anyway; I don't wish to over-assume) you are unwilling to trust him with the truth, and are rationalizing this as "protecting his feelings."

When I've discussed aspects of my affair with my wife, on occasion she's asked for details that I'd rather she not have known. However, the advice we got from our marriage counselor (which I believe to be sound, and consistent with advice that the Harleys give & which you'll find elsewhere on this forum) is that I had to be willing to be open. Sometimes if my wife wanted to know a particular detail, I would say to her "I'm just making sure: Are you sure you want to know this?" But if she answered "yes", then the rule was that I had to answer, truthfully.

I do not believe there is such a thing as TMI about an A. I agree with doing the readings suggested.

Three reasons why a WS lies about an A: 1) to avoid being in trouble 2) to protect the spouse from being hurt and 3) to keep the A alive in their head.

The last reason is one that did not appear in the book, but on a post here. Your H cannot trust you because you have not been truthful with him. You cannot recover a M without openness and honesty - merely suffer through time together.

AM

Janda

�The only real problem is when he triggers on something - usually once every other year it seems - maybe not even that frequent. He insists on quizzing me of the details of my affairs. I am guilty of not coming 100% clean with him. I am vague, and I minimize the gory details as much as I can. The first problem I have is that I don't exactly remember everything like I did 12 years ago, yet he does. The other issue I have is that he wants detail to the point of being explicit and graphic. This is where I draw the line�

The you have done well by owning that what you did and trying to make your BH feel safe.

However on the big picture you have failed to do enough.

One area can be in how you are trying to make your BH feel safe is not sufficient. What have you done in this area?

Next only the BH gets to determine how much detail he needs to know. Leaving out facts is lying. Lying by omission.

Your BH will never rest not knowing what he wants to know. You have experienced this for twelve years. This being lied to will never make this problem and the wedge between you go away.

I know what I speak of. Since 1981 I have been left in the dark on most of the story. My need to lessen has not reduced one bit after all this time. The wedge just goes deeper.

You have been able to put this story, the affair, behind you because you know everything. Having all the facts you were able to process what happen and close the book.

Your BH has been show a this book. Most of the pages are missing. He can�t make sense of all that took place. You broke his trust by doing not one but two OM. Then you say trust me you don�t need to know what is missing.

Your BH is staying married. Though he will never be able to move on without the truth.

If you find it to hard to answer questions face to face then write BH a timeline send it in an email to him. Then have him ask through email any questions he has.

Tell him you do not even remember a lot now. As you answer his questions if they cause you to remember more things you will add them to your time line story.

Example: WW does the OM in the marriage bed, car, sofa, let OM wear BH�s robe, wore BH�s favorite outfit when doing OM, used OM�s gifts after the affair was over for years. Or the case�s where the BH never got oral, and the OM got everything from A to Z.

How can a BH rest when they don�t know who the OM is?

How can the BH watch his back if the OM comes back fishing around to restart things up when they don�t know the OM identity?

How can the BH know if there is NC between the WW and OM?

By not knowing these things how is a BH to know if his own bed is safe for him to sleep in?

Tell your BH what he needs and wants to know.

You were able to do these deeds. Own up to them.

Not knowing, only causes fear. The unknown always causes fear.

Well, you are not a good judge of what will be "helpful" to him at all, HE IS. And he has a right to know each and every detail about your affairs since this is information about his life. This information was wrongfully and cruelly withheld from him.

He will remain STUCK until all the truth comes out.

So, if you want to ever recover from this, the first step is HONESTY. RADICAL HONESTY. Tell him everything about your affairs and stop lying to him. Recovery does not happen if it is based on more lies and deceit.

This will continue for the next 50 years, if you don't stop playing trickle truth games with your victim, Madam. You are making it impossible for him to recover. He has a right to KNOW IT ALL.

Here is an from Requirements for Recovery by Dr Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders written to a betrayed spouse who was having NIGHTMARES because her H was being dishonest about his adultery:

here

I think I already do a lot what Dr. Harley suggests. He knows I had an affair with a coworker of mine. He got him fired (actually OM resigned ahead of being fired). We've worked through what made the affair possible for me. It's the details of the affair that make me cringe. I've told him the time-frame of the affair, the locations of the affair, and that we had sex. I told him that I gave myself to OM in every way possible and not just in a physical sense. That's not enough for him. To me that explains everything. He is not satisfied with this, and demands to know explicit details. I don't want to get too graphic, but here's an example. He doesn't just ask if I performed oral on the OM. He asks if I *&^$%& his *&*$. This line of questioning is the tip of the iceberg. He wants to know much more with graphic detail. This is where I have the greatest issue. I mean, he knows I was with the last OM for longer than three months. I think it is safe to assume we were sexual in a lot of ways. What good does it do for him to know body part dimensions or anything else that insignificant? I don't mind humiliating myself. It's not that. I love him, and I don't want to hurt him anymore. I just don't understand why he wants to beat himself up 12 years later with stuff I don't want to remember anymore.

Janda, have you read Can't We Just Forgive and Forget? This discusses "Just Compensation," and how it important to not have "gaps" in the knowledge of the affair.

I also think your husband may be guilty of lovebusting. However, he is the aggrieved party, so there is a tricky balance here. The "how much" he's asking for seem to me to border on "disrespectful judgment." If you have told him the details and he insists on crudity and graphic detail, he may be angrier or more controlling than a healthy relationship should endure. Or if he continues to demand the same information repeatedly, he may be turning the tables and being abusive to you.

If you can, I'd get both "His Needs Her Needs" and "Love Busters," both by Dr. Harley. They are not difficult to read and go into much greater depth than the articles on this site (although the articles are way better than what other sites offer, IMO). Recovering your marriage does NOT mean you becoming his doormat. It means being equal partners, lovers, friends and companions. No marriage is healthy when one spouse holds sway over the other.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that perhaps your H wants to be assured that you didn't do anything sexually with the OM that you haven't done, or refuse to do, with him.

He may be thinking that holding information back is your way of continuing the romance of the affair.

Yes, I agree that this line of question is not healthy. I haven't been able to have a sit down with him where he asked questions and I answered them all. He asks me explicit, graphic questions that are above and beyond my admissions of having sex with OM. I have admitted the affair and being physical with OM. He knows the who, what, where, why & when. Anything after that does not seem like a positive, healthy way to strengthen our marriage especially given that this happened so many years ago. What good is it going to do him to know the explicit details of the sex acts themselves?

Janda, may I suggest you have this discussion with him? Try to do so without LoveBusting: no angry outbursts, no disrespectful judgments, no name-calling, innuendo, or agenda-driven motives.

For example, "Jerry, I really want to work on building the strongest possible marriage with you. This means answering your questions about my past behavior, and I think I have been extremely willing to reveal to you the details of my affair. I would like to ask you to think about your need to know the graphic details, since I have already admitted to you the fundamental details (where, when, how many times, etc.). If your need to know is truly blocking our recovery, please tell me how my telling you will help. "

If he has a legitimate need, based on some childhood trauma or or significant life event, then I think you should be willing to accommodate his need to know. On the other hand, if he fumbles and comes across as simply trying to be manipulative and controlling, then I submit you have deeper problems in your marriage, and should delve into them in counseling.

There is no such thing as a "white lie" where an affair is concerned (never mind TWO affairs).

My H wanted details too. This is going to sound ridiculous, but part of my problem is that I couldn't imgaine saying some of that stuff out loud. So I wrote down and wrote out what he wanted to know. H read it, clarified, and then discarded the paper. It was like a weight was lifted in some ways. Yes, it hurt to discuss/write details. But H finally knew what he needed to know and could then try to process and deal with it. My recommendation is to try to find some way to tell him what he needs to know.

janda

Your stone walling, justifying, reasoning, will never make his needs go away.

Hasn't the past twelve years not taught you anything. There have been BH's that still haunted by not knowing twenty years later.
I'm going on twenty nine years.

Keeping your BH in the dark has only caused long term problems in your marriage to continue after the affair.

It is your BH's right to know what went on with the OM. It is the BH's right to go to the level of detail that he needs.

You can offer to schedule one hour an evening for BH to ask you what ever questions for you to answer truthfully. For the first week you can do this tue, wed, thur. BH will need this time up front to go through his pent up needs.

Leave the weekends for living the present.

Then from the second week on you then select one of those previous three evenings do talk about what happened.

This way BH gets his answers, and you don't get hit every day with recalling the affair.

If you can't do it face to face then offer to do it by email. Even if you only share a computer an email acount.

Then tell as this dicussion unfolds it will most likely jog your memory and when you remember any thing new you will tell him about it.

What have you told your BH when he wants details?

Do you refuse to even say why you won't tell?

Do you tell him you do not remember?

Janda, having sex in an adulterous affair and lying about it is not healthy. You are not qualified in any way, shape or form to decide what level of detail is "healthy" for your victim. Only your victim can decide that FOR HIMSELF. He is the best judge of what HE needs to recover and you are OBLIGED to answer each and every question openly and honestly. The rapist is never qualified to determine what the rape victim needs for recovery.

Remember, this is information about HIS LIFE TOO. You don't get to decide what he needs to know. You are the last person who is qualified to determine that.

Honesty is the solution to infidelity, not more lies and deceit. Recovery is contingent upon HONESTY, not more deceit. All of his questions needs to be answered in order to recover.

As you can see, playing trickle truth GAMES with your H has greatly impeded the recovery of your marriage. And the longer you play mean little cat and mouse games with him the greater the risk that he will grow to hate you.