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Wheres Plex? Are things getting better? Rooting for ya Plex!!!

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not getting better--regretting installation of spyware, don't know who my husband is anymore and very disgusted as tonight he said "i really want to hug you".... tmrw 7am-8am eastern sessions with DocH.

I'm disillusioned and ready for him to be gone.


BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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Originally Posted by Plexle
not getting better--regretting installation of spyware, don't know who my husband is anymore and very disgusted as tonight he said "i really want to hug you".... tmrw 7am-8am eastern sessions with DocH.

I'm disillusioned and ready for him to be gone.

This feeling is normal Plex. You reached out and found support and it made you hopeful,(as it should), then saw some progress but a lot of past emotions are in play here that just don't go away as fast as we want them to.

You are aquainted with the idea of WH being willing to comply with therapy but being unwilling to change right? Whether it is because he has such emotional damage/baggage or is just stubborn it doesn't matter. What matters is what you need for a healthy bonding in marriage. Maybe the definition of marriage is different to him than it is for you or even others.

If you don't stand up and ask for what you want from your marriage relationship you will not only suffer needlessly but will be setting yourself up for your own affair. In the suffering of ENs not being met is where many women unexpectedly find or seek connection to other men. They are in pain and they fall.

In defense of many ppl betrayed by a WS who did not communicate their unhappiness their must be a realistic and fair demand that is not met. For instance, leaving a spouse because they wanted sex and attention from other ppl is not reasonable. another would be running away from the mundane details of life is not one either. The point is that people need to be grounded in reality and be able to handle it first before they can be responsible enough to handle a healthy relationship with someone else.
This is what MB is all about. The reality check of someone being exposed to reality to the point of it hurting the fantasy is the first step. Then the WH and the BS have to make decisions based on what it takes to have a relationship. These rules that we have to realize are eternal truths, respect, honesty, care for the spouse, and an expectation of positive outcome work hand in hand with forgivness, commpassion, grace, and a willingness to be pliable to change.

We all see the person we love thru rose-colored glasses and we "fall" in love with who they can be. We don't want to give up on them when they fall short or act out in a way that we can't stand because they hurt us in some way. There need to be limits on how much we put up with or they can take us down a path that will destroy us and/or our love for them. "Boundaries" so to speak. Because we can sacrifice our own reasonable happiness for someone to the point where we break down. It happens all the time when ppl think that this person they married can love them unconditionally without help from outside influences. Marriage is not the end of the search but the continuation of learning to love beyond the original romance.

In MB we learn how to communicate correctly and give 50/50 with each other and we need trust in order for us to feel safe. There will be problems with every marriage it is part of the deal. We all have strengths and weaknesses and we need to be able to trust each other with our heart. If we can't then it will be a lonely existance with a stranger filled with fear of sharing ourselves with them. Isn't it better to have a freind then? Aren't we better off alone then?

The first thing you need to do is realize that there is allways hope. Most of what we suffer is what we allow. Having faith in the truth that Love is an action based on a decision we make to live without fear and expect proper treatment from others. We set the boundaries and are so many times fooled into thinking we don't deserve better or that we need to be God for others and that robs us.

I don't know why you are upset with the spyware, It is a tool that can be used for good or bad, just like a rifle. What you will be using spyware for is to help you restore and/or repair/build your marriage.
If you reason it like this, Marriage is a union that God created so that two ppl could be drawn together in his name. God expects us to go to him for our expectaions. Then after we are square with him about life and secure in ourselves he ordains marriage to another. God never asks us to live in constant suffering with a mate who will or cannot be honest or fair with us. He expects us to trust Him and honor the institution of marriage and therefore stand up for it. If we do the he will by natuaral law give us peace. Its a shame that we put the cart before the horse and expect that someone can fill Gods shoes with our expectations that are just unrealistic when we depend on others to fill our inner needs of security. We cannot help others be happy,(ephasis on help, not make), unless we ourselves are happy.
Yes we can define marriage as a business deal and a way to make each other responsible for children, finances, and many details that describe married life but these are the responsibilities that draw us to seek something higher for help. When we lose the ability to possess our own security outside of money, position, and the temporal posesions of the world we settle our differances in the court of public opinion or maybe in the courts of law.

The details that we work on in MB with LBs and ENs are a nessesary part of reaching higher. When we come to a place of expectation from God in his insttution designed by him for us we will be able to treasure the individual that we are married to. Then we can live in the Policy of Radical honesty and enthusiastic agreement with a trust and commitment rivaled by no other relationship we have on this earth. That is the most romantic love I think anyone can have for another. A life shared with trials and tribulation that do not weaken the union but make it stronger. All because we choose to live in reality and are not to proud to seek help when we need it.

I hope this helps. Its only my opinion but I know that there is truth in what I say. Please forgive me if the delivery is off in some way and I have more hope in Dr Harleys counsel than anyone else I have seen out here. I respect your H enough and trust that he will change if he really wants to.

Drastic change in our lives can be like a part of us dies. To me it has to be for a reason that can be positive if we let it be.
Two quotes that have affected me in positive ways.

"The door of opportunity swings on the hinges of adversity" ---IDK author

John 12:24 (King James Version)

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit
This to me says we are all connected and that strongholds of the mind as well as the body go thru cycles. We can use our understanding to help each other in those challanges we all face as we grow.

Hope this helps Jane Bond...


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Session with DocH, result: husband should approach me to discuss OW. I will need to relay its painful that he has any kind of contact with her.

He is supposed to bring up the subject to me--I'm to respond its painful and would need him to have no contact.

If he says: "i cannot do that; stop contact" then I am to respond that it is painful and wait... If he insists he cannot stop contact then I respond with the consequence of our separation--plan B because "i'm in pain and I need to protect myself from my husband, my husband isn't protecting me from pain'

If he says : "ok, I will not have contact with her" and then while I'm in school he does, in fact contact her... I am to come home and ask him if he had contact with her.. If he says no, then I will tell him 'this is causing me pain and I need to protect myself my husband, you will need to pack your things now and leave my home."

I read in his fantasy-logue with OW that he didn't transfer the title on one of the vehicles like he said...and he told OW he'd be selling it for $$.

As a result, to protect myself,my job, college class, I contacted my father and concocted a plan to get a car for me, so I can move forward clean and clear with separation.

I guess alot is riding on this next discussion... I predict he will tell me he will have no contact and then do it anyway. The separation is the 'action consequence' for him. Hopefully he would wake up.... before its too late...

If not...he won't be in my home, my safe place... and he'll be out wondering around or mooching someone's couch for his petty and horrible EA.

A wall will surely rise within my heart while I implement planB--and it'll be a long time, if not forever before I'd be willing to even just, sit with him...

FYI, We had a nice convo yesterday afternoon, where we were "lamenting the loss of my best friend" to each other... something sparked in me that said, yeah I do still love him...

But I will not tolerate this pain for that love... As shocking as this is... I developed physical tremors, the same ones I had enduring step-father's sexual abuse, well I mean when I knew he was coming for me, when I knew my mom was asleep.. and he was coming for me in the dark...

I actually said this to my husband, this pain you give me now, is the same as that pain, my step-father gave me, you wait til no one is looking and you hurt me, over and over and over, and now I shake with fear....

I need sleep and at some point to do homework for class...

I'll probably be back here after the 'talk' but I can't be sure...

If anyone is reading this and you haven't read my entire story, please, do not comment, especially not what you've read on other peoples pages or learned in your books..... Doc H has EMPHASIZED repeatedly that 'typical' approaches WILL NOT work on my husband. Doc H has emphasized repeatedly to get all direction from him. Doc H has said his guidelines and believe me I've asked about all the things: plan b with or without exposure, etc and he is telling me to trust him right now. He is 'customizing' a plan for us, and I want that upheld here...

So please understand while I recognize that this is an 'open' forum, please only post if you're willing to think/dialogue about how/why/what Doc H's approach designed just for us, or how much you want to support me during this time...

please don't insert book quotes and other things Doc H has said about other EA's.

I have been 'stabbed' repeatedly by each response my husband has read and sent to this oW on his pager... I'm down, I'm out, and I'm clinging to Doc H's word/guidance. Help reinforce that.

Time for sleep...


Last edited by Plexle; 01/15/10 11:12 AM.

BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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This sounds so right. I have read other instances where the plan has been tweaked a bit for each individual case.

Might I encourage you, although it is VERY tempting, to not read the content of the emails WH and OW share? Knowing they are in contact is enough right now...and especially if/when you move to Plan B, do not look at their content. By reading their emails it depletes your LB$ which is dangerously low right now.

Unfortunately by the time a WS gets to the forum they have lived with the A for quite a while (often unbeknownst to them) and their LB$ has been declining for some time.

It is time to protect yourself. May I say again...keep the emails in a safe place, copy them, put them on a disk, put them away, save them to a separate folder so you can see IF there is contact or not, but do not read them.

And the shaking you are describing is symptomatic of PTSD. Living through an A is EXTREMELY stressful. WS don't realize that fully (or they realize and bury it down so deep they don't acknowledge it). I like Doc H's advice to remind him how painful this is for you. WS lie to themselves that everything is OK as long as THEY are happy...

And come here to vent.

Think about keeping a journal, a record of what you are going through, and picture yourself sharing this with your FWH after he comes out of the fog...

Last edited by StillHereMakingIt; 01/15/10 11:58 AM. Reason: Proofread, proofread, proofread

Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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Originally Posted by Plexle
....if he says : "ok, I will not have contact with her" and then while I'm in school he does, in fact contact her... I am to come home and ask him if he had contact with her.. If he says no, then I will tell him 'this is causing me pain and I need to protect myself my husband, you will need to pack your things now and leave my home."...

..I was wondering plex if Dr H was going to deal with this without using exposure. Now we know that is the plan from the Man himself. Glad you clarified it to us cuz we all will defer to Dr Harleys wisdom..

I read in his fantasy-logue with OW that he didn't transfer the title on one of the vehicles like he said...and he told OW he'd be selling it for $$.

How evil and sorry for you in this..


As a result, to protect myself,my job, college class, I contacted my father and concocted a plan to get a car for me, so I can move forward clean and clear with separation.

Yay for Dads!!

...But I will not tolerate this pain for that love... As shocking as this is... I developed physical tremors, the same ones I had enduring step-father's sexual abuse, well I mean when I knew he was coming for me, when I knew my mom was asleep.. and he was coming for me in the dark...

I never thought I would be reduced to a child at the age of 46. I had endured a lot of bullcrap in the name of love for my wife but her leaving at the time she choose to was so extreemly painful. I felt alone and terrorised again. All kinds of past fears overcame me. Hang in there Plex.
I actually said this to my husband, this pain you give me now, is the same as that pain, my step-father gave me, you wait til no one is looking and you hurt me, over and over and over, and now I shake with fear....

I need sleep and at some point to do homework for class...

I'll probably be back here after the 'talk' but I can't be sure...

If anyone is reading this and you haven't read my entire story, please, do not comment, especially not what you've read on other peoples pages or learned in your books..... Doc H has EMPHASIZED repeatedly that 'typical' approaches WILL NOT work on my husband. Doc H has emphasized repeatedly to get all direction from him. Doc H has said his guidelines and believe me I've asked about all the things: plan b with or without exposure, etc and he is telling me to trust him right now. He is 'customizing' a plan for us, and I want that upheld here...

Ok will do plex, please keep us posted. We all understand Dr H is the authority. I hope my posts have not frustrated you but I have been honest about what I believe. I will keep watching this thread and will be praying for your success with WH. Because I am not an important part of your recovery I will not post anything more than a positive "yay" or "yippee" and will let others here very capable answer any general questions. Make no mistake though I am rooting for your recovery and will be following closly. I am not offended, I am backing off from an area that I am no expert on..

So please understand while I recognize that this is an 'open' forum, please only post if you're willing to think/dialogue about how/why/what Doc H's approach designed just for us, or how much you want to support me during this time...

You will have to let us know what the details are for the plan Plex


please don't insert book quotes and other things Doc H has said about other EA's.
..right

I have been 'stabbed' repeatedly by each response my husband has read and sent to this oW on his pager... I'm down, I'm out, and I'm clinging to Doc H's word/guidance. Help reinforce that.
..ok

Time for sleep...

Nite Plex sweet dreams pray


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Sort,

When you said:You will have to let us know what the details are for the plan Plex


All I know is my husband is supposed to initiate a convo about OW(he prefers husband initiate) and make his choice about removing OW from our marriage.

If he betrays me --says that he won't contact her and then he does contact her, then I implement separation-immediately, then I reconvene with DocH about the next steps.

Thats all I have...



BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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Originally Posted by Plexle
Sort,

When you said:You will have to let us know what the details are for the plan Plex


All I know is my husband is supposed to initiate a convo about OW(he prefers husband initiate) and make his choice about removing OW from our marriage.

If he betrays me --says that he won't contact her and then he does contact her, then I implement separation-immediately, then I reconvene with DocH about the next steps.

Thats all I have...

That sounds really good plex.

What I was talking about was supporting you in details of the plans you and Dr. H work out as they unfold.

I like what is happening now. sounds really good and I am behind you 1000%. smile


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Hi,

With a bit of prompting (ok, ok, really it was a lot of prompting throughout the dialogue because he gets overwhelmed in the face of pressure, once prompted he spoke freely...but oftentimes, he stalled appearing deep in the pressure of the situation....), we had this long talk after he cooked dinner and DocH's approach has really worked. After I asked if DocH told him to speak with me, he said yes and tried to recall correctly how DocH told him to go about it...he struggled and we conversed as I was guided earlier, eventually he stated he didn't want me to have any more pain and its hard but he's going to stop contact to remove my pain from this marriage so we can focus on re-building.

I don't know if I believe him... for now, I guess in all honesty, I really don't believe him.. time will tell, and trust, if it's going to be re-built will begin here and now, only if he really means what he said..

I struggled with him on syntax, he didn't want to use the word 'promise' said that breaking that would be even more painful ( a few promises on other things, he has not come thru--like in the 2 yrs since we bought this house, he has promised to keep his collection in one room of the house, he still hasn't lived up to that promise yet...)

I got REALLY uncomfortable one point: its because he wanted me to define HOW LONG 'stopping contact' really meant, he said it provocatively and that was hard for me not to respond to but I did remain calm.. he said "I KNOW you want me to stop contact forever" I breathed in DEEEEP and I said "I can't think of forever,my heart is pounding, I'm shaking... I'm struggling to get thru the hour...the day.. the week..thinking of forever right now is overwhelming, I just want the pain to stop right now and the PTSD symptoms to cease... guess you have to speak with DocH more about it..."

He wasn't a happy camper after verbalizing the agreement out loud to stop contact,( I asked him if DocH called right now what would he say that we have agreed on, he quipped that he wished for a compromise, and I told him there was none as 'reducing contact' would still cause pain) so, after this he kinda sullenly trudged off to smoke a cancer stick (sorry smokers, 2 yrs nicotine free) but his anger doesn't last long, in usual cases, he hates dwelling on problems...

Later, I watched his favorite movie with him after and had engaging dialogue throughout- real, not strained.

One day at time...

Last edited by Plexle; 01/15/10 11:04 PM.

BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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Note: I honed on the usage of the PAGER as I've never felt uncomfortable with how he speaks to any woman in public or on duty outloud at work. I also said he could converse with the [i]married[/i] woman on his contact list but if any single women contacted him, he should probably just tell them he is busy and immediately let me know or show me the convo. I also reiterated that perhaps emails not instant message should be his choice of communication so he can stop and think about his behavior... (I have other reasons but two birds, one stone) I decided to just fixate on 'no contact' when discussing the OW as I really couldn't think of anything to say if she should contact him and, as I've read, they're supposed to get in touch to meet on Sunday.

I asked him about Wednesday session (has to have one about a NC letter with DocH, at the very least, or continue to discuss no contact), or its for me and discussing PlanB, should he get in touch with her Sunday while I'm in class. He was very annoyed. *laughs* " Another appt??? Already!?" Boy, he doesn't get he needs all the help he can get... He was also annoyed we had had an early morning appointment AND twice THIS week!!?

*laughs* Men, geesh!!...well, I mean WAYWARD men, geesh!! *smile*

Last edited by Plexle; 01/15/10 11:24 PM.

BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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It sounds like you are following the plan Dr H has laid out Plex.

I know its a hard time for you now.

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Well, we had date night. He brought me to an oldie but goodie place we used to frequent as young lovers... It was a nice dinner, somehow it comes up about the car and he tells me he forgot to transfer the title... Again the funny body language and facial expressions... I just flat out told him my gut said "something funny with this..."

He was like "well, I'll go again and transfer it as soon as I can". I am not holding my breath. I just made it clear : You said you'd do something and now you tell me 4 days later that you didn't.. How are we supposed to build trust on that... I'm looking at you wondering who you are..."

We chilled and got home and petted his dog, talked a bit and then I wanted to go to bed but I wanted to talk first... He became distracted by something on tv so I promptly and quietly left.

He came after me hugged me and said he was sorry something distracted him on tv, to which I said "it still hurts"....

Another talk while I lay on the bed and the remorse is starting to show, I cannot really be sure... But he did participate and he did emphatically state he is here to work on the marriage- so I told him "you know so far, I'm still here because of love, but you have t keep your word to stop contact, because if I get pissed off...." and he said "yeah i know it takes a long time for you to become un-pissed..."

"make sure you're doing what you want, really really want." He said he wants our marriage. I said "remember when you met me? remember when you stood before our 3 closest friends and God and said you'd love me til death do us part?--this commitment to stop contact is just as important... (nodding) I said "its getting really hard for me hear that you're in the marriage because you KNOW you married a good woman and yet... you have hurt me with three other women... how am I supposed to believe that you really think I'm good woman?.. (nodding and says: I know, I shouldn't hurt you..." I reiterated the horrible morals his younger brother has now as a result of what my husband has... he insists he will never be like his brother... I insisted if he doesn't change now this small part of him , he will become that horrible... I believe he's GENUINELY terrified of becoming that horrible... deep inside...

Somehow he puts his head on my shoulder and we're just caressing, and then... We had a mutually enjoyable experience in our marriage. I actually am very surprised that I did it, but it did feel good and I do still have those feelings for him after all.. (I'm very stringent about sexual activity in cases whereby I may be hurt: always thinking about 'tomorrow', but this just felt right...) It really did... It removed tension too...

I pray that he's remorseful and won't risk losing me, but if he contacts her, I have an intermediary in place and I'm ready to come home after-school and initiate planB.

Hugs to you all :o)
Plexle


BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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Hi,

My husband is packing his things now. I have implemented PlanB. He full tilt admitted contact as if like a dare---daring me to do something... He has until 7:15 to finish packing and leave, and then I'm calling our intermediary over.

I will be giving him the car key too. There will be no coming back either as I took the house key off of his key ring. he doesn't realize that yet.


BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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Oh Hun, I am sorry that you have to join this horrible Plan B club. It really is a sucky feeling but it can be empowering at times too.

The vets will definitely be here to support you.

((HUGS))


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Oh Plexle, I am sorry. Hang in there.

{{{Plexle}}}}


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
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Originally Posted by Plexle
Hi,

My husband is packing his things now. I have implemented PlanB. He full tilt admitted contact as if like a dare---daring me to do something... He has until 7:15 to finish packing and leave, and then I'm calling our intermediary over.

I will be giving him the car key too. There will be no coming back either as I took the house key off of his key ring. he doesn't realize that yet.

Plexie, I am so sorry. frown Once you get him out, I would send him a plan B letter designating an intermediary. Do you have an IM in mind? Do you want help with the letter?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Plexle Offline OP
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I have intermediary all set (last night I predicted this). i'm not syaing anything else to him until my session with Doch wednesday morning.


BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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maybe consider writing a Plan B letter draft to email to Steve prior to your meeting, so you can have it ready to go...just a thought...


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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Plexle Offline OP
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he's paging OW now, not even 5mins gone from driving slowly away...


BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 134
P
Plexle Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 134
thanks susieQ


BW:34
WH:37
M 4 years, together 8 years
D-day of third EA with a coworker 1/6/10
PlanA 1/7-16/10
PlanB 1/17/10
~starting 16 months of grad school 1/9/10-will require class attendance 9-5 on 2 Saturdays and 2 Sundays every month
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