Thank goodness I have work today. I need the space, and I am so tired. H gave me a list a mile long. It took me over an hour to answer. When I was finished, I left to do a little late night shopping at WalMart and give him some time to gather himself. Once I got home, we started talking. I had my keys still in my hand just in case. I wish I could say radical honesty solved everything, but it didn't. For every question I answered, he had three more. Making things worse, he didn't believe half of my answers. He didn't yell at me, but I could feel the contempt. We both got ready for sleep, and it made things much easier for me with the lights off.
He was stuck on the size issue. I answered honestly that it was average. He immediately wanted a comparison to him. As God as my witness, I have no idea how much bigger or smaller it was. It seemed the same to me. After going back and forth, I finally answered a little smaller and a little thicker. His breathing was off the charts, and he said okay and started asking more questions/clarifications.
Around 1am he asked if I wanted to have sex. That was the last thing on my mind. I could not fathom that after talking about all of this garbage that he wanted to do that. I felt drained and worn out after being interrogated, but I said okay. There was no passion or love in what he did. It was primal and aggressive.
After it was over, he started back into the questions. We were up talking past 4am when I finally fell asleep. When I got up for work, he asked me to call in sick so we could keep talking. I told him I had to go to work since we're already short-staffed because of the holiday. There's no way I was going to stay and be quizzed all day. As I was leaving to go to work, he asked for sex again. I was already going to be late to work, but I sensed he wasn't in a place to handle a 'no' answer. So, we did it again, and it was cold like the night before.
There's one other sticky detail that he is obsessing over that I don't feel comfortable discussing on here. Something I did with OM and not for H. It's something I do not like and will never like.
I realize I brought this all on myself, but I am not so sure this was the right thing to do. I've spent 12 years trying to forget my actions, and I almost resent having to relive it for my H.

�He was stuck on the size issue. I answered honestly that it was average.�

Vague answer.

�He immediately wanted a comparison to him. As God as my witness, I have no idea how much bigger or smaller it was. It seemed the same to me.�

How honest were you being?

�After going back and forth, I finally answered a little smaller and a little thicker.�

Again how honest were then?

First you say you don�t know then you say smaller thicker.

What is BH to believe?

If you truly could not answer, never make up an answer. Best response I just remember it not being anything to think it was anything to be embarrassed or brag about, so the best I can answer is average for now. Let me try to recollect and I will get back to you on this.

Now you where being honest, and showing you were not withholding. Then coming back on your own will help to rebuild trust.

�Around 1am he asked if I wanted to have sex�. As I was leaving to go to work, he asked for sex again. I was already going to be late to work, but I sensed he wasn't in a place to handle a 'no' answer.�

It�s called hysterical bonding, HB. BH�s need to reclaim what was his. HB can last up to six months.

�There's one other sticky detail that he is obsessing over that I don't feel comfortable discussing on here.�

I understand but remember you are anonymous here. Share what you want.

�Something I did with OM and not for H. It's something I do not like and will never like.�

Have you ever done this before you met BH?

Does BH know what this is?

Has BH asked for it in the past?

Does BH want it now?

�I realize I brought this all on myself, but I am not so sure this was the right thing to do. I've spent 12 years trying to forget my actions, and I almost resent having to relive it for my H.�

I understand the pain you are feeling now. Your BH has been locked in his own pain for twelve years time being left in the dark.

Tell BH no more all night questioning. You want to answer his questions freely. Not be interogated.

Was BH given a time line?

Now is the time to tell BH that he can email you questions any time he wants to and you will email an answer them as soon as you can. However you will not be able to function without sleep
so we need to set a affair talk schedule. One hour a night for the rest of this week thru thursday.

Then we need to take off for the weekends. Then we can resume face to face tue thru thur evenings for an hour each evening.

If there is something that can't wait send me an email. I will reply back.

It most certainly was the right thing to do. Lying to your spouse about the details of your affair is never the right thing to do. You have no reason to "resent" making amends to your victim by telling him the much overdue TRUTH about what you did to him. You resent making your wrongs right? If you "resent" telling the truth to your victim, then he needs to know that is your attitude because you are not a safe person. If I were your husband, the marriage would be OVER after 12 years of lies and adultery. You are even lucky to have a man who would tolerate that, because most won't. No one is worth that kind of abuse.

That is a dangerous attitude that should tell anyone who is harmed by you that you don't have what it takes to make that right.

The self pity is extremely inappropriate in view of what you have done to him. Your "discomfort" is irrelevant compared to the hell you have put this man through........for years.

Instead of focusing on your "pain" how about focusing on the pain of your victim? You volunteered for this, after all, he did not. Why not try to help EASE his pain, instead of selfishly focusing on yourself?

If you had manned up and told him the truth a long time ago, instead of playing trickle truth, you wouldn't be going through all this today. Your conflict avoidance has hurt your husband greatly, but you brought this all on yourself.

So, why did you do it for the OM then? Your H is going to feel incredibly slighted that you chose to do something with the OM in SF that you're choosing not to do with him. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to best advise you to deal with this.

Your H's response is what I would have expected, given your situation. Seeing that he believes you've been keeping the truth from him for so many years, it's hardly surprising that he thinks you're still not telling the truth now.

BTW, my FWW, bless her heart, was quick to say that the OM was a "bigger" (in fact, that was the first thing she mentioned), and the sex laster a lot longer with the OM than with me. As you can imagine, that went down very well with me . She didn't 'fess up to doing anything with the OM that she hasn't done with me though, and vehemently says that she didn't. After all that, we're still together, 4+ years after D-Day. We still have our issues, but they're mainly due to other reasons.

Janda, here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says about the crime of adultery. And keep in mind that you have compounded this crime against your husband by LYING for years. 12 years of lying and dishonesty is an enormous crime to overcome, yet your only concern is yourself. Amazing. Your posts indicate that you are oblivous to the trauma you have inflicted on this man:


How to Survive Infidelity

Janda,

There's one other sticky detail that he is obsessing over that I don't feel comfortable discussing on here. Something I did with OM and not for H. It's something I do not like and will never like

No doubt anal, that bothers me about my wifes "EA", since it would represent the giving to OM of her second virginity. I get the feeling that she rationalizes that it wasn't sex.

The other problem I have is that she offered it to me when we were first dating and she was madly in love with me, but since then has not. So it is sort of an indication of intense love and surrender.

God Bless
NJ

J, you can expect that H will be hurt with these details. My H was, but it was still absolutely the right thing to do. I believe that once the fresh hurt began to fade, it was a turning point for us, because all those horrible questions that had plagues him had been answered. It did re-open some wounds I suppose, but sometimes when I wound heals improperly an becomes infected, it HAS to be re-opened.

There were times after out D-day when SF was more agressive (never abusive), but I sensed the desperation on H's part. I honestly cannot imagine what he must have felt as a BS and a man. As far as that one issue you don't feel comfortable talking about, I would just keep being honest. I don't know where the line is with regards to SF, WS's and BS's when it comes to that. SF is pretty intimate, so anything we do or don't do can have lasting effects on the relationship.

Keep being honest. And I like the relationship talk schedule. I know I couldn't stay up until all hours night after night and still be a good teacher every day. So for practical reasons sleep is important.

Well, my fwxw doesn't really even care that much for SF. My first wife and I, thats all we did was SF anyway and every way. Before I got married the second time, I consulted my BF(s)F and ask them if they thought I could stay faithful w/ the limited SF. When my fwxw confessed her A, I was like, huh? Especially that it went PA. and he was way older than me. The first thing she said was how small he was. So, I'm thinking, WTF is going on here. The more details I heard, the lamer it sounded. BUT, it still went PA, so I was pissed, even if he had to tape a popsickle stick to it to make it work. Its still adultery. Anyway, Bigger/Smaller, details, it doesnt matter. Its all MADNESS, pure MADNESS...DUDE

"my fwxw doesn't really even care that much for SF. My first wife and I, thats all we did was SF anyway and every way. Before I got married the second time, I consulted my....."

What's to consult.

Why marry someone with a totally different sex drive?

WW was not the first WW to not want much SF from BH then goes and finds an OM to pick up some of her available slot time.

I don't know, I didn't think it was THAT important, I guess. Also, her other positives countered balanced this draw back. Marriage is one BIG f'n compromise. DUDE

Maybe I'm just tired or need thicker skin, but I am starting to feel offended by some responses in here. I think I am allowed to have feelings right now in spite of the mistakes I made so many years ago.

The Road - Thanks for your candid response. It makes a lot of sense to me. My H pressured me into answering him. He demanded an answer to the size question. I told him I really wasn't sure. It's not a memory thing either. If he would have asked me 12 years ago, I don't think my answer would be much different. It wasn't memorable. Still, he literally wanted measurements in inches. I finally gave him an answer which I am not 100% sure about because he wouldn't let it go. "If you did such and such to him X number of times, how can you not remember the size?" "Where was your hand in relation to him?" Etc.
Also, thanks for the tip on Hysterical Bonding. I had no idea, but that also makes a lot of sense. It's so unlike him.

lurioosi2
Thanks for your input and sensitivity. I was hoping to hear from someone who's gone through this experience successfully. I will try to set up a schedule for him, although I have my doubts he's going to agree to a schedule.

I think he will regret wanting THAT MUCH DETAIL. Whats so offensive? DId I miss something? DUDE

"I finally gave him an answer which I am not 100% sure about because he wouldn't let it go. "If you did such and such to him X number of times, how can you not remember the size?"

Never make up answers. This not being honest. Guessing answers is wrong. Tell BH you don't know when you don't know.

As to scheduling talks. Don't let BH coerce you.

Janda, then we have something in common. I am very offended by your cruel, callous behavior towards your betrayed spouse and even more offended by your inappropriate self pity and focus on your own "pain" while your husband bleeds on the ground. What you are doing is the equivalent of the rapist crying because his rape victim kicked him in the commission of the crime. You want sympathy for the consequences you are suffering for abusing this man for 12 years. And you are offended?

I am offended.

I am offended by serial cheating and lying. I am offended by your "outrage" over your victims reaction to your abuse. I am offended that you believe it is ok to lie to your H for years on end and can't understand his anger and frustration. It is the cruelest abuse that one can commit upon another. That is offensive.

Such an injustice is offensive to decent people. Decent people are offended by injustice.

I think this lack of empathy has to greatly concern your husband and make him seriously question how dangerous you really are. If you feel such callousness for these crimes, what else are you capable of? Any rational person would ask such questions.

It doesn't seem that you even begin to comprehend what you have done to this man. How do you explain such a callous lack of empathy? Is it because you lied to him all this time? Has that kept you foggy and oblivious to his pain? Are you normally this callous to the suffering of others?

Did you read the article I linked from Dr Harley where he equates adultery to rape, physical assault or the death of a child? How to Survive Infidelity

I wouldn't hold back like that ML, its not healthy...DUDE

Janda,

It took my FWW eight months to finally come clean. It was pluperfect hell. Multiply that by 18? I can't even imagine.

Girl, IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU. Get that straight. IT AIN'T ABOUT YOU.

You have to do right by him. That's the bottom line, and until you vomit it all up, it's not happening. And you don't get to make the call about what you tell him -- that's his decision.

Your job is not to destroy him while telling him the truth. Be gentle, but be candid.

Actions have consequences. Roost, meet chickens.

You had to go there .

I sometimes think my FWW is gifted with incredible naivety, or incredible insensitivity - sometimes I'm not sure which. Sometime after she cheated for the first time, and we were back "in-love" and recovering, we're on the way to being intimate, and suddenly she chuckles. I ask why (yes, sometimes my curiousity gets the best of me), and she says that she just remembered a time she was being intimate with the OM and he made a "mistake" (it should be obvious what that "mistake" was). Grr...

Of course, after D-Day #2 concerning OM#2, she says that he apparently made the same "mistake" one time as well. I looked at her incredulously - she can't be THAT naive! I reminded her of the first "mistake" by OM#1, and she replied she had no recollection of telling me that, LOL.

IMO OMs who are in it for the fun will likely "push the limit" to see how far they can go - it's as simple as that. After all, unlike us BHs, they don't really have that much to lose, and they know that once that infatuation steps in, they can probably get the WW to do almost anything they want her to do.

Anyway, getting back to the subject. Janda, you *need* to find a safe way with your H to be honest with him about everything, if you want to increase the chances of recovering your M to a point that you'd like to be. Even if it means discussing things that you really feel uncomfortable about. And you can make the most of the "hysterical bonding" by making it clear by your involvement that you're not just "going through the motions", that it's something you want to do with your H, that it's something you enjoy doing with your H. Your H needs this from you. And if you need something from him to get you to that point, let him know!

Janda,

What MelodyLane has been telling you is VERY true...Your husband is very hurt and very angry at being kept in the dark for SO LONG...I agree that your lack of empathy here is just astounding...Can you for a second put yourself in your husband's position? Do you understand how very disrespectful it is for you to withhold information from him about his own life? I understand that YOU don't feel that the way he is asking is very nice or respectful, but let's stop for a minute and think about YOUR SIDE OF THE STREET...Was it respectful of you to have the affairs in the first place? Have you been respectful by deciding FOR your husband what he should or shouldn't know? Janda, do you understand that that is a lot like you would treat a PET? Oh, I've no doubt that you'll find that particularly hard to swallow and think me MEAN for saying it...But STOP for a second - drop your defenses and understand that I'm trying to HELP you, not hurt you...I want you to open your eyes and really see the suffering that your husband has endured for 12 YEARS...I want you to be as astonished as I am that the man is still there under such circumstances...

I realize that you feel "offended" by people being upfront and giving you the brass tacks about your situation - but why? Are you unable to see that YOUR BEHAVIOR is FAR MORE OFFENSIVE than any mere WORDS that can be typed here?

To me your husband's reactions are perfectly understandable, and I'm a FWW myself...My gosh...He's angry...He's hurt...And you are unwilling to put salve on the wounds that YOU inflicted upon him - 12 years ago - his wounds have only festered and gotten worse in that time...Janda, that is CRUEL...Can't you see this at all? You aren't the victim here...HE IS...I'm sorry that your behavior has put you in a position to be hurt and offended, but really it's YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR that has led to this - do you understand that?

Personal responsibility and making amends for your wrongs are EXPECTED of an adult...Doing so will not only benefit your husband, but YOU as well...I see you as still very foggy, and I can tell you why - because you have continued to lie for so long...Continued lying keeps you in the wayward mindset - I believe this is why you lack empathy...HONESTY is the solution here...It's the ONLY way...

And Janda, not only have you robbed your husband for the last 12 years, but you've also robbed yourself...A marriage with real intimacy can't be beat - and you've been unable to have that because your husband doesn't know EVERYTHING there is to know about you...That makes me very sad for you both...Mr. W and I were just talking yesterday about how incredible it feels to share our whole selves with each other - we marvel at how different our marriage is now - we have MB to thank for that...It's amazing...It can work for the two of you as well, but you MUST work the ENTIRE program - you can't skip anything - most importantly, RADICAL HONESTY...

Janda, I think you and your husband would benefit greatly from attending a Marriage Builders Weekend...Mr. W and I went in 2007 - it's amazing...There are links at the top of this page...I hope you and your husband will seriously consider it...

I would also very much like to see you bring your husband here and let him read your thread - I think you'd be surprised to find out that he has felt exactly as many people here have described to you...I also think being here and being validated would help him immensely in his healing, of course nothing will help him like your willingness to share EVERYTHING with him...A combination of being here, your honesty and a MB Weekend will take your marriage soaring to heights you've never imagined...Will you please bring him here?

Mrs. W

Janda,

What MiM referred to is the absolute worst thing to any BH.

The concept that while you're in the sack (or wherever SF is happening) and you start thinking about the OM in any way, good OR bad, is an absolute nightmare. It's usually a, shall we say, deflating thought.

That's what drives BH's insane. That very concept. THAT'S the definition of torture in my book.

You had to go there

There is another reason for going there btw, you need to know what happened in order to check for STDs in the right places.

Since anal HPV can cause anal cancer, your wife needs to monitor herself for the rest of her life there. Not to mention HIV/hepatitis if OM was an IV drug user.

NJ