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#2307601 01/19/10 05:24 PM
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My husband has been maintainting a friendship with another woman form our church for almost two years now. This began while I was pregnant with our first child. He still doesn't recognize it as having an affair since he says he did not do anything physical with her. He had in the past said he would stop communicating with her but that never happened. He now says that he wants to work on our marriage, I'm not sure if it's only because I started making plans to leave. He doesn't necessarily want to stop emailing/chatting with her but said that he is committed to not contacting her and wants to work on himself and the marriage. I *think* this time he may be serious but of course only time will tell.

Any advice on where we should start in working through this? I read through some of the articles on the site and am just overwhelmed by the amount of information available. Dr. Harley has written several books and I am unsure of which I should read and whether I should have him read it too or just wait and see if he's serious and offers to read it. I'm hurt and confused...


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
Dday #1 05/08
False recovery b4 I knew about MB 07/08
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Hey RW. I'm very new here also, so I will let some of the more senior members respond with some articles on MB which apply to your situation. But, I just wanted to say that I know what you're going through, and you're in the right place. "Hurt and Confused" is a very familiar feeling to everyone here, so you're bound to get some good advice.

Stay Strong!


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RW,

I'm so sorry to hear about this. Welcome to MB. The server for this board has been down all day, and has only been repaired this past hour. I think that not many people realise that, so answers will be slow at first.

Your H will not be able to go non-contact (NC) with this woman unless either you or her leave that church. I doubt whether she will be keen to leave, so it will have to be you.

Where to start? Well, the textbook that you can buy in larger bookshops tomorrow, or order online form here, is Dr Harley and Dr Chalmers' Surviving an Affair. Until you get that, though, there is a wealth of free materials on this site, which give essential information from that book.

Please tell us about this affair; its length, what they talk about, how you found out that they were talking, whether the other woman (OW) is married and whether her H knows about this.

The essential articles on this website cover:

1. How affairs begin. How Do Affairs Begin?

2. How affairs should end, and that is with complete non-contact with the OP for life. Dr Harley is adamant that you cannot accomplish NC if H is able to have contact with OW. The End

3. Restoring the relationship, or building a better one than before, once NC has been established: Restoring the Marital Relationship

4. Dealing with the unhappiness that results from an affair: Overcoming Resentment

Also essential is Marital Recover After an Affair.

There are also lots of Q&A letters that are answered here.

Hang in there.


BW
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Thanks for the replies. The OW is unmarried although she is now seeing someone. At the time this began she was single and did not have a BF.I knew who her BF was I would tell him what he's getting himself into. I'm not sure if the BF knows about her relationship with my H but I assume he doesn't. one of the things H has told me they talk about is her relationship with her new BF.

I found out that they were talking in May 2008, I believe it was just a month or so after it began. I found out that they were messaging on MySpace at the time, I had his password and checked it because I just felt like something was off. I watched the messages for a while (maybe 2 weeks) and once I saw flirting going on I said something to H about it. He got upset that I was checking his account though he had given me the password. He changed the password and created a "secret" email account. They used that account and they would chat back and forth on that all day long while he was at work or while he was home and I was asleep, I was just getting into my 2nd trimester of pregnancy so I almost always went to sleep very early.

I installed a keylogger on the computer once I saw the secret account in this history. At that point I went to talk to a Pastor at church and let them know what was going on. H got very upset with me and didn't talk with me much. He said he would stop talking to her and now I have recently found out that this only lasted a week. We had our son in September 2008 and at that point I had no evidence that he was talking to her. Now I know that he was but he would only talk with her at church since they worked in the same ministry together and while he was at work. I found out in Oct. 2009 that he was still talking to her since he emailed her from our home computer and on the same day I found out that he texted her 3 times. The email wasn't flirty but he was not supposed to have contact. He lied and said that this was the only time he ever emailed or contacted her and that it was about church and etc. Fast forward to last Tuesday I checked phone records (since I still don't trust him. He apparently had a 30 min. phone conversation with her the day before we went out of town together back in December. At that point is when I found out that he again contacted her on 12/23/09 and 12/31/09 both of which were 5 minutes or less. He has never described in detail what they talk about (this is something I still want to know), he says that they talk about what friends talk about. He said that he likes to just laugh and talk about general things with her.

After last Tuesday he has suddenly decided that he will be honest with me and wants to work on things. I still believe that he is ommitting facts as in not giving detail about what they talk about and etc. He said that he never stopped communicating with her longer than a couple weeks. Both she and he initiate contact and it's over email at work a few times through out the week. He says the only phone conversations were those that I saw on the cell phone bill but, I don't believe that. He said that she has moved to a town 3 hours away to start a new job, she moved there in November 2009. So she's not a member at our church anymore though I believe she was there visiting this weekend. I have wanted to change churches for a while b/c the whole place brings bad memories for me.

I hope I answered everything and will read the articles. I'm sort of hopeless about whether he will really change this time.


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
Dday #1 05/08
False recovery b4 I knew about MB 07/08
Dday #2 01/10
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Originally Posted by RedsWife
I hope I answered everything and will read the articles. I'm sort of hopeless about whether he will really change this time.
I can see that it will be easy for them to maintain contact via the internet and they might well do so, since this is how they spend a lot of their time.

There is another article that you should read urgently, perhaps after reading "How affairs should end". It is about Plans A and B. You should also read Dr Harley's advice on internet affairs. I know this did not start as one, but it has turned into one since OW moved away.

Dr Harley's advice for what to do when an affair does not end on D Day is to first go to Plan A. You should be in this plan for about a month. It involves your trying to end the affair while simultaneously meeting those emotional needs that your H will let you meet.

However, if you have any reason to suspect that this affair has been physical, you must not have sex with him until you are both tested for STDs and are clear.

Plan A is a means of showing the H that you are able and willing to meet the needs he has been letting OW meet. You must not keep it up for long, though, because it takes a toll on your health (because you know the affair is still going on, and that hurts, as you know) and it supports H in his cake-eating affair. He gets the best of both worlds while you are in Plan A, and he gets to like it.

If he does not end his affair after a month you must go to Plan B, which involves separating from H and not having any direct contact with him. You must arrange for an intermediary to pass essential messages between you, and arrange a means of handing over the children for visits that does not involved your seeing or speaking to H. You must sort out your income, perhaps with a legal separation agreement, for this to work, so you must prepare for Plan B. You do not do it by throwing H out one day.

This article explains the rationale behind the two plans. You should keep posting here for more details on how to put them into practice.

It's late here in London and I'm going to bed now, but keep posting and reading, and others will give you more help.


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He now says that he wants to work on our marriage, I'm not sure if it's only because I started making plans to leave
Yep. He is not to be trusted at this point. You WILL have to change churches.

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Originally Posted by catperson
Quote
He now says that he wants to work on our marriage, I'm not sure if it's only because I started making plans to leave
Yep. He is not to be trusted at this point. You WILL have to change churches.

Even if she moved away? I've felt like we should change churches for a while now and even visited one a few months back when I found out he was still talking to her. All of our/my friends and support are there (though they do not know what is going on).

This began on the internet and this is still how they communicate. I will read the articles

Last edited by RedsWife; 01/19/10 06:56 PM. Reason: typo

Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
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False recovery b4 I knew about MB 07/08
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Another question when he started acting willing to work on things I told him about this site (on the same day I found it). Should I encourage him to come here?


Married 9 yrs.
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I missed that she moved. Then you will have to focus on monitoring his computer and phone use. He will have to agree to total transparency. I wouldn't let him know you're posting just yet. He may be going underground and just getting sneakier at contacting her (extra phone, etc.), and coming here will tell him how you are monitoring him.

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I would say that you should see if he will send a NC letter. Dr Harley gives a template for this in one of the articles. If he seems willing to end the affair and send the letter, he might benefit from coming here. He has to do his part in recovery too, and this is the best place to learn how.

If, however, you have any suspicion that he is feeding his addiction with contact, do not tell him about these forums. You will get advice on how to spy on him here, and you do not want him to read that. Do not talk about MB any more yet, in case he finds these forums on his own.

Do not let him send a NC letter without talking about it here first. You must see and approve the letter and, although it is in his name, YOU must send it so that you know it has been sent, unaltered.

Active waywards are horrible, devious, manipulative, dishonest people who do shocking things to their spouses and children. You must not give him the benefit of any doubt, or any trust, until you see that this affair has ended with complete NC.

If she has moved away, you don't have to change churches unless you want to, which it seems you do. This is not urgent, however.


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I've thought that about getting sneakier since this is what he did after I first confronted him about his affair with her. He now emails at work only. How will I ever know the truth about whether he actually stopped communicating with her? BTW he said that starting today he will not contact her, he said he would send her an email telling her not to contact him either. Thing is he told me that he didn't have time today to send her the email. This makes me think he's nto serious. I want to confront him about it but, I will wait on it until after I've done my homework I guess.


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
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When we talk this evening or tomorrow I will ask to see the NC letter. I'm trying to figure out how I will be able to ensure that they have not had contact. I suspect that if he isn't serious about the NC then he will find a way to do it and make it hard for me to find out.


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
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Does his family know? If I were you I would take control and put an end to this behavior. The only reason he is talking about working on your marriage is because OW has moved on with her new BF. However, your WH has POOR boundaries and will start something up again with another woman if these boundary issues are not addressed. It's better to address these issues NOW that he currently doesn't have any other available "options." Otherwise you are going to go through this all throughout your marriage.

You give him a list of conditions that you need in order to continue with this marriage. These include complete transparency, marriage counseling with the therapist of your choice, openness and honesty, revealing everything about his relationship w/ OW, no opposite sex friendships or alone time, etc. If he does not agree to those conditions, you take steps to move forward with at least legal separation. He'll come running back with his tail wagging between his legs.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
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Redswife,

Briefly put, in Oct.2008, I let myself go into an emotional affair with an acquaintance from our church (one of the women I sang with on our worship team). I thought I could keep things under control. I was very wrong. It became physical in short order, despite a half-hearted effort I made to break it off. It all ended in more heartbreak than I ever wish to be any part of ever again, and almost cost me everything that matters to me.

It required exposure to end my affair (in my case, my other woman's husband found her out, so that forced my hand in telling my wife myself, and forced me to stop "cake-eating" and to make a choice to try & save my marriage).

And it required our leaving that church, in order to preserve a strict practice of "no contact" between my family & the other woman's family.

There's much more I can share, but I have to leave for work now. Let me know if you want to know more. I suggest you read up, on this site, re: 2 principles I've mentioned: (1) exposure, and (2) no contact. They were crucial to saving my marriage. My wife & I were also blessed to find a very good marriage counselor who stressed these principles.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
jmwc95 #2307895 01/20/10 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jmwc95
The only reason he is talking about working on your marriage is because OW has moved on with her new BF. However, your WH has POOR boundaries and will start something up again with another woman if these boundary issues are not addressed.


I wondered if the reason he seems so willing to stop communicating with her is b/c of her moving on with her new BF or whether it was because I started making plans to leave.

As far as whether his family knows, I assume that his brother knows b/c they confide in each other from time to time. I'm not sure if any more of his family knows. Is exposure the best way to go even when previously I did this in exposing the EA to the Pastor at church and it didn't stop the behavior? I admit that I am kind of embarrassed about the situation b/c it makes me look like I can't keep my husband at home.

I agree that if we do not address the boundary issue that this will reoccur again. I even said that to him but he says that he's not going to make the same mistake again.

GloveOil, I would like to know more. I'm interested to find out the FWH perspective on things.

I'm trying not to get hopeful because I am afraid to have to endure this pain again. He says that he did not communicate with her yesterday and that he will not do so. No letter as of yet, even after he sends the letter I'm not really sure how I would figure out if he's emailing with her since he does this at work.


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
Dday #1 05/08
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You get to approve the NC letter, AND you get access to his email account. All employees can access their email from home computer.

TheRoad #2307906 01/20/10 08:13 AM
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I'm not sure if he knows how to access his work email from home but, I will see if he can find out how to do so. Are there any examples of NC letters here?


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
Dday #1 05/08
False recovery b4 I knew about MB 07/08
Dday #2 01/10
NC 01/10

TheRoad #2307909 01/20/10 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRoad
You get to approve the NC letter, AND you get access to his email account. All employees can access their email from home computer.

No, not all. Some secure jobs do not allow this.


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If H can access his work email from, home and gives you access, then he will stop sending and receiving affair messages to it. He will set up a separate web-based email account that you know nothing about. If he accesses THAT from home then a keylogger will detect it, but if he is smart and only communicates on the secret account from outside the home, you are lost.

A common trick is for waywards to buy a pre-paid mobile phone. If he keeps it in the house or car you could find it. He will need to charge it, so look for a charger. If he keeps it at work, though, you won't know about it.


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Thanks for the info SugarCane. Before all of this started I used to visit him a lot at work. He started needing space and no longer wanted me to come to his office for lunch. In hindsight I suspect this is because he wanted to spend his lunch period talking with her. With my job it will be difficult but I may start trying to go to his office more again.


Married 9 yrs.
DC 7 & 2
DH EA 4/08-01/10
Dday #1 05/08
False recovery b4 I knew about MB 07/08
Dday #2 01/10
NC 01/10

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