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Originally Posted by Traci_S
I have a question for everyone out there. My H thinks that after 2 1/2 weeks that he should feel like he is getting over the OW and he isn't. He still has feelings for her and what he means is that he is still in love with her. About how long does it take for him to start feeling like he is getting over her. He tells me he does love and care for me but not as a husband should for his wife and he won't work on our M until he gets over his feelings for the OW. This scares me because he thinks he should already be getting over her. I told him it takes longer than that. I think he is going to only give it 6 weeks and then leave again. What do I do?

Still hoping and praying.

Tell his old a to grow up??! DUDE

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Love busting will not a marriage save.

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Traci,
Did you print this article and give it to WH?

Harley response to wayward on recovery

As long as you WH continues to focus on OW and his feelings towards her - it is going to interfere with your recovery. In essence he's blocking you from making love deposits into his love bank.

I agree with Pepper, have you WH post here.

Gg


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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Love busting will not a marriage save.

No, but you'll keep your sanity and sleep well at night..DUDE

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Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Love busting will not a marriage save.

No, but you'll keep your sanity and sleep well at night..DUDE
I don't often respond to you, DUDE. And I frequently disagree with you. But in this case, I have to admit you're right on target with me.

The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.

I knew at the time that it was immature and purposeless. But I told her the things I'd been holding inside for months.

The end result is a bit of closure: I am now in Permanent Plan B and -- are you ready for this? -- I'm sleeping again!


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Love busting will not a marriage save.

No, but you'll keep your sanity and sleep well at night..DUDE
I don't often respond to you, DUDE. And I frequently disagree with you. But in this case, I have to admit you're right on target with me.

The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.

I knew at the time that it was immature and purposeless. But I told her the things I'd been holding inside for months.

The end result is a bit of closure: I am now in Permanent Plan B and -- are you ready for this? -- I'm sleeping again!

Isn't it nice..I'm here to save people's sanity. SOme on here would throw their life away to save a marriage w/ a disrectful, awful spouse AND MAKE THEMSELVES CRAZY DOING IT! No MARRIAGE or R is worth going CRAZY, IS IT???! Cowboys are getting blown out so I'm gonna take a nap. Sleep well my friend...DUDE

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Originally Posted by Dude007
Cowboys are getting blown out so I'm gonna take a nap. Sleep well my friend...DUDE
Another reason I'm going to sleep well tonight.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Originally Posted by Dude007
Cowboys are getting blown out so I'm gonna take a nap. Sleep well my friend...DUDE
Another reason I'm going to sleep well tonight.

Hey, watch it!!!

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A GREAT recovery plan outline.
Written by DoNoMo (formally Barnboy) on LadyLongLeg thread.


Quote
LLL,

Good on you for taking some time out for a jog. A few "Love Busters" -- instances of being the source of your spouse's unhappiness -- far outweigh a few acts of kindness. If you can force yourself simply to avoid the following things for the time being, you're making great moves forward:

1. Selfish demands. Avoid demanding anything of him right now. The only exceptions to this rule are statements of what you would be willing to accept as good faith that he wants to recover, which I'll cover below.

2. Disrespectful judgments. You will want to call him on the carpet for his behavior, call him every name in the book, and he deserves it. Believe me, I know he deserves it. But refrain from saying things disrespectful about him -- or the other woman -- anywhere that he will hear or read. Keep your interactions with him consistently positive, or if not positive, at least neutral.

3. Angry outbursts. These are HUGE love-busters for everybody, so if he gets angry, walk away. If you start to get angry, walk away. Don't let anger ruin a productive conversation. My technique is to say, "I don't feel safe in this conversation anymore. I need to go elsewhere for a while."


There are at least two other big Love Busters that he's currently engaging in, which you must watch yourself about:

4. Independent Behavior. This is behavior that would hurt your spouse if your spouse knew about it. "Revenge Affairs", or RAs, fall into this category. For the time being, avoid seeking solace with any man. Avoid behavior that will hurt him... with two important exceptions, also detailed below.

5. Dishonesty. Be honest about yourself with him, share how you feel, but try to do it in a way that does not demand he change, show disrespect, or result in an angry outburst. If he tries to "fix" you by telling you you should not feel the way you do, one good response is "I'd love it if you wouldn't try to tell me how I feel."



REQUIREMENTS FOR RECOVERY

Be clear with him about what you expect as a bare minimum if there's to be any hope of recovering your marriage from his infidelity. These are statements of your needs, not demands from him, but he will try to call you various names when you state them. "Controlling", "demanding", "crazy", "jealous", and "overbearing" typically top the list. Be prepared. Here are the typical three requirements for recovery:

1. That he never see or communicate with the other woman in any way at all, ever again. This includes Extraordinary Precautions to prevent further contact. Every wayward will try to negotiate some reason for keeping the other person in their life: job requirements, that the affair was emotional but not physical, or physical but not emotional, or some other excuse. You cannot possibly recover if the other woman is in either of your lives. Thus you implement Extraordinary Precautions to preclude another affair... and these EPs even work during times of extreme stress once properly implemented!

2. That he commits to absolute, radical honesty with you. Dr. Harley calls this "transparency." This includes telling him everything about himself that he knows about himself, you knowing all of his passwords, having an expectation that you will snoop on him without telling him how, and so forth. He will rebuild trust with you by showing he is trustworthy and radically honest with you about his feelings at all times.

3. That he commits to a marital recovery program of your choice. Of course, most of us recommend Dr. Harley's courses, mentioned here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html . My wife and I are following "Program #1", because we felt that we were both very motivated to recover. However, if you or your spouse are not motivated to recover, Dr. Harley recommends you pursue one of the options that have more accountability coaching to help you slog through those motivational swamps.


THE NECESSARY LOVE BUSTERS

There are a few -- very few -- Love Busters that a betrayed spouse should probably engage in to preserve their marriage. They are calculated, done with foresight, and are done in order to prevent much greater Love Busters from either partner in the future. I like to think of them as "peeling back the tape and gauze to treat the open wound with a raging infection underneath". The affair is the infection... and although these Love Busters may cause some temporary pain, they are necessary.

1. Exposure. You've already received a lot of advice on this. It will make your husband hate you. Many wayward spouses consider this a greater betrayal than the affair. But exposing the truth far and wide in a "nuclear" fashion -- like ripping off the band-aid quickly, rather than slowly -- will ultimately be the one action you can take that may swiftly and decisively end the affair.

2. Snooping. Radical Honesty is an important part of Dr. Harley's program... but don't give away how you keep tabs of your husband. If he knows, he can push the affair further underground. You need intelligence on who the affair partner is and how they communicate, and should work to preserve that knowledge. Ideally, you should come to a mutually-enthusiastic agreement on snooping, but a wayward is unlikely to agree to that until they are well into recovery. You have a right to know what is going on in your own life, and your husband's affair is very much part of your life. He has no right to "privacy" on any behavior that affects both of you. And since pretty much everything a spouse does affects their partner, your spouse has no right to secrecy from YOU, ever.

===============
THE PLAN

So you have the basic ingredients of a recovery plan: basic requirements for recovery that you will try to persuade him to follow over the next several weeks. What behavior to refrain from while in this persuading period. And what the exceptions are to that behavior.

Even if he agrees to your requirements, you haven't given up the option of divorce. You can choose it at any time, though certain "at-fault" options are typically closed to you a few months after discovery.

You will have many, many opportunities to choose divorce. You have only a very narrow window to choose recovery. Choose wisely.
_________________________

Your H does not have a recovery plan.
He needs one.
Send him here to MB - and he could ask another WH (like TST or LousyGolferr) to post to him.



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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.

And no one said you shouldn't.
Why?
Because you are divorcing by choice. Who cares what you say to your STBXW!
Traci is in recovery. An entirely different set of behaviors is in order.
Lovebusting advice for a woman early in recovery, is not conducive to Traci's goal. ~~~> Marriage recovery.

If Traci had decided she was ready for divorce .... she can LoveBust his butt from here to Tuesday ... no one cares.

But, that's not the case.


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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.

And no one said you shouldn't.
Why?
Because you are divorcing by choice. Who cares what you say to your STBXW!
Traci is in recovery. An entirely different set of behaviors is in order.
Lovebusting advice for a woman early in recovery, is not conducive to Traci's goal. ~~~> Marriage recovery.

If Traci had decided she was ready for divorce .... she can LoveBust his butt from here to Tuesday ... no one cares.

But, that's not the case.

Pepper, I was talking only about my case and no one else's. I wouldn't dream of suggesting someone else LB if they were trying to save their marriage.

However, at the end of the day I don't feel good about the way I allowed myself to get dragged into the emotional gutter with The Leopard. I'd like to think I could be above that, and I wasn't. Yes, it felt good, and yes it brought to me a sense of closure. But I still feel "dirty" about doing so.

If that makes me a doormat or a fool, so be it. I could have taken the high road and I chose not to.


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Everybody makes mistakes when under extreme emotional duress.


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Me, personally, I do not think it is wise to direct WH to this site for a few reasons:
1) He's still too foggy and there's nothing more frustrating than trying to educate a wayward;
2) He's probably not convinced that he needs to change. The a "just happened" and it's better to sweep it under the rug.
3) If he's still in contact with OW, he'll tell her about this site and she'll try to hack into your thread. OW may use your own words against you.
4) Your H isn't strong enough to post on the board. He can barely cope with your bending over backwards to Plan A him. If he gets one bit of criticism or reads one article that says his marriage MAY not be savagable, he'll run with it.

I'm the queen of false recovery. Same words were spoken by my WH. And he WORRIED about OW -- how was she coping without him, what was she doing, would she find someone else and give up on THEM -- yuck! And I KNEW when we were intimate, that he wasn't himself. He had a funny look in his eyes.

Take a really good look into your husband's eyes. Are they the same -- or do they look different?

You need a plan, as suggested. And he needs to WANT to implement it. Traci -- I swear -- I had so many people trying to help me -- his family, my family, a counselor, our priest, our kids. And he still went back to her multiple times because she wasn't giving up. She made herself available and, frankly, I couldn't monitor him 24/7. He'd go to work, tell me he was having lunch with a buddy... and I'd find out two days later that he had lunch and "dessert" with OW while I was SUPPOSE to be trusting him.

And he SWORE to our kids and our priest that he was committed to recovery. SWORE TO A PRIEST.

I don't know what to tell you. I wish we had gone away together. I wish he and I stood together before OW and he said straight to her face "It's over. Move on. I'm committed to my family. I will never see you again."

Schoolbus had a post on how to know when he's done with OW. Something about he has to COMPLAIN about OW. And OW's wails are louder than yours. And he has to tell you THEIR story. And he has to get to the part where he says "it ended and I'm not going back."

People can 2X4 me all they want... but I went through false recoveries for an entire year. He started off nice, and sincere... and I felt sorry for him and the "rocks in his head." I was the patient wife. I took him back each and every time. But when he left the last time -- he said he was making his final decision and I needed to "let him go."

And he's been gone a year and he's MEAN. He's doing everything in his power to financially break me and our kids. And my crime was trying to recovery our marriage and keep our family together.

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Originally Posted by Holyheart
Me, personally, I do not think it is wise to direct WH to this site for a few reasons:
1) He's still too foggy and there's nothing more frustrating than trying to educate a wayward;
2) He's probably not convinced that he needs to change. The a "just happened" and it's better to sweep it under the rug.
3) If he's still in contact with OW, he'll tell her about this site and she'll try to hack into your thread. OW may use your own words against you.
4) Your H isn't strong enough to post on the board. He can barely cope with your bending over backwards to Plan A him. If he gets one bit of criticism or reads one article that says his marriage MAY not be savagable, he'll run with it.

I'm the queen of false recovery. Same words were spoken by my WH. And he WORRIED about OW -- how was she coping without him, what was she doing, would she find someone else and give up on THEM -- yuck! And I KNEW when we were intimate, that he wasn't himself. He had a funny look in his eyes.

Take a really good look into your husband's eyes. Are they the same -- or do they look different?

You need a plan, as suggested. And he needs to WANT to implement it. Traci -- I swear -- I had so many people trying to help me -- his family, my family, a counselor, our priest, our kids. And he still went back to her multiple times because she wasn't giving up. She made herself available and, frankly, I couldn't monitor him 24/7. He'd go to work, tell me he was having lunch with a buddy... and I'd find out two days later that he had lunch and "dessert" with OW while I was SUPPOSE to be trusting him.

And he SWORE to our kids and our priest that he was committed to recovery. SWORE TO A PRIEST.

I don't know what to tell you. I wish we had gone away together. I wish he and I stood together before OW and he said straight to her face "It's over. Move on. I'm committed to my family. I will never see you again."

Schoolbus had a post on how to know when he's done with OW. Something about he has to COMPLAIN about OW. And OW's wails are louder than yours. And he has to tell you THEIR story. And he has to get to the part where he says "it ended and I'm not going back."

People can 2X4 me all they want... but I went through false recoveries for an entire year. He started off nice, and sincere... and I felt sorry for him and the "rocks in his head." I was the patient wife. I took him back each and every time. But when he left the last time -- he said he was making his final decision and I needed to "let him go."

And he's been gone a year and he's MEAN. He's doing everything in his power to financially break me and our kids. And my crime was trying to recovery our marriage and keep our family together.

Recovery sounds more risky than getting married in the first place!! YIKES!! Thats just too much abuse..DUDE

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Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it. Had another talk with H when he asked me what I was doing just standing there in the kitchen. I told him I was just thinking and he wanted to know what I was thinking about and I told him, it just spilled out. He told me I could have access to all his email accounts and to his phone. He understood why I wanted this and didn't complain at all. I also told him he had to work on our marriage at the same time he got over OW and that he was obsessing over her and his feelings for her. He said that he wasn't obsessing and I told him to just get over her and go on "just like you told me to about you." I think that got his attention. I did tell him earlier that if he left again that I didn't want any contact with him again. I told him that I couldn't handle being just friends with him the pain would be too great. He wants to at least be friends if it doesn't work out andhe just doesn't get it. I can't just be friends with someone I love with every fiber of my being. At least if I have no contact I have a chance to heal and go on with my life because if I have any contact at all it would be like ripping the dressing off of a very large wound and opening it up again and making it bleed. My H has no clue about what he has done to me even though he says he knows he hurt me badly but he has no idea how bad.

I am going to try my best to get my marriage back with the man I love.

Still hoping and praying.


BW-me 47yrs
WH-him 50yrs
married 24yrs, together 25 yrs,DD 25yrs, DD 22yrs(granddaughter born 3/14/2012).
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
Plan D 06/2012/WH served 8/17/12
WH left 7/25/2009/WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009/left 10/22/2010
2nd OW 8/2011? and living in Idaho.
"Dochas" Gaelic for hope which I have with me at all times because it is tattooed on my lower back.
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Traci,

I don't think I have posted to you before but I want you to know that I am rooting for you so much.

I was talking to someone yesterday who said that WS is so lucky to have me as a friend because I have so much compassion. This is true but I said that I couldn't be his friend if we divorced because I want to be his wife as well. I don't think they understood where I was coming from and I don't think anyone would unless they have been in our position both physically and mentally. I just want you to know that you are not alone in feeling this way and there are lots of us here who understand how much it hurts to have someone want you to be their friend when you want to be their wife.

Take care

TM


Me:41
WS:42
Together 22 yrs, No kids
ILYBNILWY: April 09
WS & OW: Oct 08 - present
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He feels like he was some kind of good guy with OW. He is confused in this.
He needs to take his concerns for the OW to God and let it go right there.

Hisfantasy that he had with the OW is clouding his mind and his talking to you about it is hurting you.

The recovery process and thematerials Dr H puts out will help him.

I don't remember if you guys are seeing Dr H but you should.


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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He needs to see how much this hurts you and he also needs to see that he should be caring for you.
Remember ppl telling you to let him do most of the heavy lifting? This is part of it.

I don't think he is ready to post here either.

At the very least maybe you should tell him not to tell you about every feeling he is having. Tell him to take it to a counselor and really, tell him its to painful to hear.

If he wont take this step I wonder how much he is able to love you Traci

Still prayin for U2

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Tracy and others,
I just don't get why we keep refering to the fantasy of the A in this case. Your H lived his fantasy with her for a few months and then decided to come back. So isn't the fantasy sort of bursted by now?
What can your H hope to have with OW that he has not already experienced by living with her and her kids?
Why don't you ask him that?
And he is still giving you the "I hope to be friends" line.
That must be painful Tracy. Hang in there.
blessing


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Tracys H has some seriuos self confidance issues IMO. She has been the leader in most of the marriage I think. Of course I may be way off base with that.

So what I am suggesting is that it will take some time for him to understand that his insecuritys are hurting his wife and his marriage. Nevermind how he is selling himself short.

I think that he needs to stand up and fight for traci instaed of hiding out in his head thinking he is the good guy.

Just my opinion

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