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Originally Posted by SortedSomeOut
I wonder myself why ppl cheat. Some Men seem to want to be both the maddman loverboy "me Tarzan, you Jane" sex machines and the most trusted patriarch type like Steve Douglas from My Three Sons at the same time. It might be a drive that they supress because they know better but I think the "studly" attitude exists inside most testostrezone equipped men.

Women have allways been said to require attention from more than one source, I am a guy so I can't answer 1st hand whether that is hormonal from estrogen or not but I think its important that they are more sensitive to outside influences.
I am a Fan of women and their ability to multi-task and truthfully, I am someone who was allways told to slow down and not "work so hard" and I see women work harder than most men. They seem to be more aware of everything from peoples opinions/social status to others emotional needs and states of mind. Enviroment has great influence for females opposed to a lot of men who would rather be taken care of.

But this is about cheating and why so.. Why?

I believe Men have this need to be the center of the universe and when it gets out of control because their ego gets damaged, Age, loss of a job, health,sexual vitality,(ED), loss of authority, they seek someone to dominate that makes them feel better. Its rather a childish reaction and they hide thier fear of "impotance", whether the impotance comes from realizing they are mortal and are going to die some day or maybe some life event that shakes their security. So they find someone who they can believe loves them for who they are inside instead of accepting whatever is happening in their life. I call it childish because its a way to revert back to that part of us that needs comforting in the "superego" which wants to believe that the world revolves around us and our feelings. So its an escape and the new "wild and free" sexual activity or emotional bond they make is somehow going to " make it all go away mommy" They run and hide from the very things that would enrich their appreciation of lifes temporary highs and lows. The loss of power, influence, physical vitality, along with the dreams of youth that don't allways come true.

Now for women? Well as Men seem to believe they are supposed to be the center of the universe and KIng Kong women need to believe they are loved and accepted by the kingdom. If they respect their Husband and who he is and trust that he loves her and will protect her above all else I believe most women will give themselves wholeheartly just to thier Husband. Because women are more sensitive to enviroment and the opinions of others they are allways in a place of comparison, or should I say a choice, of what is safe for her. Is her husband someone who makes her feel safe? Is she accepted in her community and/or does her husband compare well to what is at this time what she wants in her life? Is Hubby embarassing or flattering to have around and what has he done to show me he loves me anyway lately?
I will admit us guys are sometimes so obliviuos and our wives need to clue us in. We are bulls in the china shops and sometimes get so lazy that we need a cattle prod to get a clue. If a women feels that her Husband is not excited and happy about loving her it will eventually wear her down and cause her to seek a way to feel loved, or a way to deny that she hurts this way. If Hubby dismisses these feelings with her as being silly it only makes the fear go underground and maybe she seeks solice in whatever she can find untill it just comes out another way. Now if hubby recognizes and validates her feelings he might not be able to help her in all of them, but at least he allows her to be human and remains connected to her emotionally.

I can't understand how a Man who calls himslf a man or does not see that his wifes sensitive nature that IS more in tune than his is really in touch with what makes the union strong or how priveledged he is to be in her life . The husbands #1 job is to be willing to die for his wife and children to protect them. That means losing everything if nessesary to do so. His comfy job and carreer expectations, his man about town reputation if that was important, his screwy friends and/or relatives if they threaten the moral character of his home. He lays down his life, not just flesh and blood life, but the concepts and frail towers of temporal power he carrys around if it gets between him and his women. He is to work shoveling ditches even if he is a colledge grad in order to provide shelter if need be and to do it with a glad heart because he is priveledged to have a family.

So what happens to women whos Hubby fits that criteria and stray anyway? My guess is that they just let their emotional need to be in the perfect love, all consuming, passionate and hidden from the prying eyes of the world is a release from the fears of how the world judges them. Even if a guy is doing all he possibly can for them they seek more and a freedom that is not present in their marraige. It might be a realistic freedom that is not there because of poor comunication or marraige practices or it could be a selfish desire that is childish in nature. But its an emotional abandon that they run to because they don't attack the problem head on when they cheat. They could just ask for a divorce instaed of cheating and then go out and find someone new if they wanted to and at least give the spouse a chance to change but that would mean work.
Cheating is the lazy way out and appears to be out of our control for both the men and women who are lost in their emotions. They are afraid and run. Do they run to justify some wild urges that they know are not acceptable to the rest of the world and they will not give up? Or do they run from extremly difficlt relationships they have at home with there spouse and/or family that could be worked out but they don't see how? Either way I can't see how either situation merits cheating and lieing. I also wont acknowledge that its understandable and OK considering the "circumstances". I think that any of the former waywards here will agree that their emotions were in charge of them when they strayed, not their convictions. I know we all are here because we have made mistakes or have been hurt by others and we all need to be supported. Any one of us could find ourselves in the shoes of someone else and none of us have acted perfectly. "There but for the Grace of God go I"

What about our animal nature and the drive to procreate that God instilled in us? Well that can be an arguement if you wish to revert to animal nature but then why lie? Why not men fight to the death to mate with a visually attractive women and woman submit to many men as they are the most powerful and aggresive of the two genders? So why lie? Just live like animals in the local honky tonk and to the victor go the spoils?
Its just a way to be children to me and get away with what is wrong mainly because we know its wrong and get a thrill out of it. It allways catches up to us though. We reap what we sow and the Karma Bus comes around.

JEEEZ I went on, but atena started it!!
rotflmao

I agree that fear is our greatest enemy and our primary motivator in life. Its what consequences we fear that determine our actions

Lots of stereotyping and sexist claptrap, IMO. Women are every bit as "lazy" and want to be "taken care of". Thye are not anymore in tune with emotions and all the other things listed.
Thye cheat for the same reasons as men, hormonal stuff(late 30's estrogen goes down and testosterone takes a lsreger role), immature need for outside validation, poor communications skills, poor boundaries, character defects.
Studies show that women cheat just about as frequently as men(more in the 30-45 demographic).
Read Michelled Langley's books, especially "Women's Infidelity II". It rings true to me.

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shaddup, Zelmo... sigh


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
shaddup, Zelmo... sigh
I'll have to decline, Mel.

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Originally Posted by Zelmo
I'll have to decline, Mel.

Thats cool Z , I wish it was as simple as womens rise in testoserzone levels. Drs have prescribed that hormone to women to boost their sex drive and it makes them more agressive but it doesn't mean they will stray from a marraige bed because they become hot to trot.

Any women out there get real hot when they are pregnant and chase their husband down out here? I'll bet there is.

I also have heard men say that at a certain age their wife started to be much more aggressive sexually. They were not complaining about them having A's, just not getting sleep.

I know that myself I have been at both ends of the spectrum of cheating, having the opportunity and really wanting to when first wife got preg by another guy and also having many opportunitys when I was married to second wife and not wanting to. Both times I couldn't get my mind into it. I believe it was a healthy fear that kept me.
Before you assume I have a problem with women sexually just gotta tell ya between marriages I did the meaningles Harem thing and found out that it was meaningless. Well to me anyways, unfortunatly not to all of them as I found out later. Of course I can never be their friends again now. thats the loss.

I also can atteast to how nasty women can be Z. I have talked to a few of the most dispicable females who seem to have no desire other than to take as many men as possible. One who was someone I saw fall into a heroin habit after chasing crack for years was hooking. Shetold me she was going to hook up with a "freind" and I said "well ya gotta do what pays the rent right?" She said "Yeah but really I just wanna Screw him anyway".
Having a drug habit was as much as a choice for her to do whatever she wanted while she was high. It wasn't "OH..I just got myself in trouble and nobody will help me!! BOOHOO" Yeah Women can be plain ol nasty.

What I was speculating about was what might happen if thinking people think to much IYKWIM, and don't respect the boundaryREGUARDLESS of what they think/rationalize or otherwise make excuses for.
The crap that people will tell themselves to entitle them to scratch that itch usuualy starts with a small thought and eventually erodes the boundaries within their minds till they fall into emotional BS that leads to adultry. They lie to themselves and it becomes OK to lie to everyone else mostly because "They just don't understand" Then "Its my life" all kick in.

Bottom line is as far as I am concerned. Something has to be going wrong between the ears before it goes wrong between the legs.

To that I commit my psyco-babble

I don't disagree with what you said Z statistically, age time-line or anything. I just added my thoughts. I will disagree with you if you say women are built the same as men and that they respond/act/react with the same emotions men do. But we can disagree on that and again I am talking comparison on the average not tottally. There are guys who are more emotional and women who are more practical. Theres a Jack for every Jill too so its all good.

Last of all I would rather die than be taken care of by a women.. that too was a generlization based on what I have heard so many women say, and some observation also. SEcond wife so so much was lazy when her specific alien took her over. lol

Last edited by SortedSomeOut; 02/16/10 12:48 AM.

Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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I think Mel told you to shaddup was cuz she didn't want to see me respond Z
rotflmao
She knew I would ..OK well I am sorry for the T/J LLL

I still think your WH got to big for his britches and his ego is writing checks that are soon to bounce. In his case he is a legend in his own mind.
Is this waht they mean when they say

"Theres no fool like an old fool"??

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There was a posting party in my room when I'm gone! Late night fun and pontificating! I should have been on here with you guys and gals. I couldn't sleep worth a damn!

I think I'm more nervous than I thought about the service of divorce papers this week if the attorney's office ever gets them totally done. Got a call yesterday afternoon from attorney and they needed another piece of financial info that I had to come home and search for.....ended up cleaning out tax files from 10 years ago while searching for something from 2 years ago. Finally found it and will call today and get info in quickly so work can proceed on financial settlement proposal from our side. Would be interesting to know if H has attorney yet.

I could not get to sleep last night....racing thoughts with flashbacks of past life and now....finally gave up and the guys and I (dogs, not men!)watched the Westminister Dog Show I had on tivo together. My guys could definitely compete, but they prefer a life of leisure....

Anyway, I guess while trying to hold myself together through all of this and go on with life, my anxiety is coming out at night preventing normal sleep patterns. Ugh. It makes you feel constantly tired and of course, at my age, beauty sleep is a necessity!

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Originally Posted by ladylonglegs
I could not get to sleep last night....racing thoughts with flashbacks of past life and now....finally gave up and the guys and I (dogs, not men!)watched the Westminister Dog Show I had on tivo together. My guys could definitely compete, but they prefer a life of leisure....

Anyway, I guess while trying to hold myself together through all of this and go on with life, my anxiety is coming out at night preventing normal sleep patterns. Ugh. It makes you feel constantly tired and of course, at my age, beauty sleep is a necessity!
Ladylonglegs, I can so relate. In many ways, our stories are very much alike, I think. I am pretty much good during the day (with momentary lapses into melancholy at times) but the night time sleep is just something else.

If you know anything about me by reading my story, you'll know that I am almost pathologically opposed to taking medications of any type! However, yesterday I acquiesced to my doctor and accepted a 30-day prescription for Ambien. I took the first one last night just before turning off the light.

And slept uninterrupted until I opened my eyes this morning. That's only the second time I've been able to do that in the past three months! Of course, it's too early to tell, but my hope is that I will regain my regular sleep habits (I used to sleep like a rock) before the 30 days has passed.

The oddness is that mentally/consciously I have accepted and adjusted to the fact that my wayward wife is going and never coming back. She has already moved on without a look over her shoulder.

More power to her. As others have said, she is headed for a buzz saw. I don't need to contribute to her destruction; she will be able to do so all by herself, thank you very much. I sense the same thing about "Herr Doktor Professor," too.

We are strong, LLL. An affirmation that I keep on my iPod and view from time to time is, "She gave up more to be with him than I lost."

Courage.

Sleepless_in_VA


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A couple of resources you can pick up from the health food and supplement store that are good for racing thoughts/anxiety at night:

Gaba Calm by Source Naturals

Rescue Remedy - Night Time Formula

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Fred,
I am so moved by your kind heart, and you are still there to help others under these conditions. I think you derserve better. It is heart broken to see the most trusted spouse betrayed our trusts, but I think there is hope out there. There will be a better woman who derserves your love. Do not feel too bad, life goes on no matter happens.

There is a very ancient Chinese proverb (sai weng shi ma), translated to; 'every cloud has its silver lining', or 'every misfortune has a blessing in disguise'.
Quote
Life is hard and sometimes hard sucks, but we all have to find that silver lining behind every rain cloud that lands over us. Remember though, the only constant is change. Nothing will ever be the same again so the way I see it, grab 'the now' when it is slapping you in the face and just know to let go when it becomes 'the past'.

I wish you the best.

Kristy

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Xie Xie, Kristy.

To you and Ladylonglegs as well.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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waiting with bated breathe LLL....

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More power to her. As others have said, she is headed for a buzz saw. I don't need to contribute to her destruction; she will be able to do so all by herself, thank you very much. I sense the same thing about "Herr Doktor Professor," too.
Fred, don't count on that. Don't count on her being miserable or LLL's H being miserable. They are of a different breed now, aliens.
When you start not caring what will happen to your WS then you know you have truly moved on. Till you hope that the karma bus will start making stops, then you are still too much in their business and they have not completely left your life.
I know because I am here waiting for the karma bus to make stops for my H and it is not happening. But instead of saying...I can't wait for the day when karma meets WH, I want to say: I can't wait for the day when Atena could care less about WH!
Blessing


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SomeSortedOut....please breathe!

Attorney about has paperwork about done, probably tomorrow it'll be complete. However, H's class where I think OW/student is there with him meets late Tuesdays so if I want to use that as the place of service, next Tuesday is the day.
Attorney says he can try to get him served there, but no guarantee. Attorney says he will say it is the most definite place he can tell where to find H for sure. However, attorney also thinks H should be served ASAP, so he's kind of pushing for Friday. However, I told him I preferred next Tuesday unless something should happen to make it more urgent.

Have heard zero from H. I'm sure the campus is buzzing about the article in campus gossip rag, but the real student newspaper has published nothing according to my friend who tipped me off to the gossip rag piece. I don't know if H has "strings" he can pull or the administration is trying to influence the student daily newspaper to not publish. However, usually if administration says don't do something, it's like waving a red flag in front of a bull to the campus newspaper, so I doubt that's it.

Last night I slept thanks to a Tylenol pm, but I think it makes me dizzy when I first get up. So I'm going to try some of the natural sleep aides. Now I feel groggy anyway.

Last night I had dinner with a couple H and I have been friends with for years. They are just stunned at H's behavior. They simply didn't see it coming and never felt he was anything but committed and in love with me. They are concerned for me but I think they feel after we talked that I'm doing what I need to do and doing ok. Lovely friends we've had for years. Lucky. The man in this couple wanted to know what my H would do if he tried to take him to dinner and talk to him. I said I doubt it would have much effect because he's so changed but said if you want you certainly could try. But I'm not sure I want him back, so if that is your purpose, don't do it.

My friends say H will be sorry. The guy said I will have men lined up when they find out I'm available. Ha! Last thing I want right now is another man to complicate my life! However, going out and having a nice dinner, dressing up and going to a concert or theatre sounds really nice. But, I don't need a man to do that.....as a matter of fact, I think I'll buy some tickets for events and take girlfriends! We don't need a man to enjoy ourselves....

I'm thinking of having our housekeeper move into my home. She's a great lady in her 40's and has worked for us for about 8 years. She's single and is having some financial issues...another errant H story. She has almost no family around (she and I talk...she's very nice and we have become very comfortable with each other). She would be here to keep house and cook a little (I certainly don't need big dinners every night) and I could help her out by letting her live in our little quarters at the back of the house on the first floor (older home with what was called maid's quarters). She would then be here to take care of dogs if I was traveling (dogs love her). She currently is working here two days a week and works for one other family two days a week who live about a mile from here. I think it might be a good deal for both of us.

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Try melatonin to sleep. I use it even now, and I have no side effects in the morning.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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...Whew...
I was wondering what would happen when he got served and what was happening on campus after that happened.. happened happened. Ok Have I said happened enuf? lol


Good news all around LLL. Yeah I have that feeling with ttylonol PM too in the AM.

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Paperwork is all ready.....my attorney hasn't heard anything from H so thinks he may not have an attorney yet. Tomorrow the plans will be made for serving divorce papers for infidelity with OW named as correspondent. I may need lots of wine tonight....I've been reading the copies this afternoon and I feel good about this. I am getting some control in this mess by being decisive. H doesn't get to call all the shots.

Housekeeper is moving in but must give 30 days notice in her current apartment. My sister has decided to move in with me for the week next week in case H goes ballistic when served. I am glad she'll be here. I really expect zero response from H. I am on his "dead to me" list.

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may the force be with you

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Darnit, TheRoad, you beat me to it.

I second that though.

May the Force be with you.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Glad you've got your sis. The housekeeper sounds pretty swell, too. It can be more difficult when all the "doing" is over and you have to sit and wait. Glad you have real live company and support.

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Awesome sis to the rescue and the housekeeper to move in

Now for the poolboy.... Ah NM

Sorry you have to go thru this but glad you don't believe in aliens

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