BaT,

What did you do? Did you give your wife another selfish demand?

You've got to stop the Selfish Demands if you desire to have any chance at recovery.

You are right, pigs are doing nothing wrong. My apologies to pigs for the insulting comparison.

Holy smokes. I just read the part about his bragging to their friends and aqauintences(even his personal trainer) about banging someone half his age.
This is Hannibal Lecter stuff.

Sounds much more like Immature stuff to me. These are a child's actions.

TA

BaT if you'd like some offline help.... click the notify tab at the bottom right of this post and the Moderators will exchange our e-mail addy's....

BaT, I have read your entire thread here and you are getting some very sound advice. I think some of the posters are getting mixed messages from reading both your W's and your posts. If we are confused by hearing from both of you, I can only imagine how the conversations between you and your W are going!

The one glaring thing that stood out to me was communication in your relationship is poor. You say you spend every day all day together. If your W is as distraught as she sounds on her thread, then I can't imagine that your time together is very fun. Part of recovery needs to be spending Undivided Attention time together where you rediscover each other. Can you and your W agree to set aside one hour a day to discuss the A where you agree to be Open and Honest and she gets to ask you anything. This gives you a chance to take a breather from A talk while giving your W a scheduled opportunity to squelch her fears. In case you didn't know it, your W is imagining all kinds of things about what you did with OW, some of which may be true, some which may be highly exaggerated. She is living with constant films playing in her head about what she thinks you did. Surprisingly, knowing the truth helps these films to quiet down.

I will say you both must learn to communicate without attacking. Yes, there were times that I exploded on GO when certain things were revealed or I was triggered in some way, but overall our most productive discussions came from calm sane sharing of feelings.

Zelmo, his behavior has been no more sadistic than most WS's. Even GO, who I would classify as a kind, compassionate man, did things during the A that were mean in retrospect. Singing a duet with the OW at a Christmas party at our church in front of me and all our friends? Inviting the OW and her now xH to our house for a Christmas party where she hugged me and sent me a thank you note afterwards? These are cruel memories that I have had to forgive, but no one has ever said that Ws's have their BS's best interests at heart.

BaT ~

What do you do when your W is hurting...crying...upset?

If you are doing the wrong things, we can help you know what the RIGHT things to do are. Please tell us what you do when she is upset.

This is a start to showing her the empathy she DESPERATELY needs right now. You can be her lifeline but it all starts with empathy and what you do to help her when she is hurting.

I think we lost him.

Likely he is still reading but doesn't know what to say.

When a wayward spouse (Adulterer) is trying to forgive themselves, they try to block some of their past behavior. They also want to be forgiven and "Just move one."

Step One: Stop trying to forgive yourself. ALL (or most) BS want to know the details so they can process the hurt. Telling her you don't remember is, well, it is hard to explain. But it hurts.

I wonder what BAT does for a living. A person's world view is very often linked to their profession.

Larry

BAT,

What I find most interesting is your choice of screen names.....

WS (you)- By_A_Thread

BS (your wife)- Hurt_But_Hopeful

One would think, given the circumstances that it would be the other way around......

not2fun

BaT,

You're not givin' up on it, are ya?

Mark:

It is hard to retain those who are that deep in the fog. But you know that

Larry

BaT,

Have you read about Extrordinary Precautions (EP's) yet?

If you have, would you list what EP's you have in place now!

Maybe we can help shore up this area with you???

Perhaps

Might be busy getting some new tats and working on the six pack abs.

Your wife posted that you have an appointment with Steve Harley today.

How'd it go?

Way to throw fuel on the fire of a sad, vulnerable, struggling relationship for the possibility of a chuckle.

I hope you are stiil reading, BAT and will continue to post in the future. Your BW sees signs of improvement and increased empathy. That is a really good start.

God's Blessings,

Say

Bat, I will paste some links to threads and posts that may help you in the empathy department. Please don't get caught up in the details but listen to the bigger message when you read and see how you would feel if you were in the shoes of the BS.


Sugar_cane's response from Looking4's thread...S_C is a BW and L4 was a WW the time this was written:

What you wrote brings me to something you said earlier. I know you have explained that you were only venting when you wrote about feeling used, but I wonder if you have really dealt with your responsibilities in getting involved in another person's marriage.

You (L4) wrote:

So why am I (L4) still so mad at OM? I was spewing to my H about it two days ago. I feel that the OM exploited my vulnerabilities and broken marriage to get in my pants then kicked me to the curb like garbage once his W found out, even though the OM and I had ended it ourselves before. I know, I know, I know... I deserve no sympathy. And doing NC quick and abrupt was needed for all of us. I know all of this in my head. But it doesn't make it feel any better, knowing how completely used I was for the OM's thrills. I thought I was in love with this man and that I was smarter than that. And I feel like he's laughing at me about it. He and his wife are moving on and I really do want that if that's what she wants. (Dang, she has no idea the things he told me. She would so be out the door if she knew, even if they were just lies.) But there's the little piece of me that is still so angry about how he used me, lied to me, then left me in a heap on the side. Again, I know that's how it has to be and that affairs don't have happy endings. But I'm angry that I'm left standing here known as the home-wrecking wh**e and he's merrily going along like all's well that ends well. Obviously, I'm still grappling with this. Sorry 'bout that little rant (end quote).


You should not assume for one minute that "he and his wife are moving on", if by that you mean that his wife is not paying dearly for your involvement in her marriage. I would suggest that she is shattered by this and that her world has come to an end. You would do well to read the many stories by BSs here about the moment of discovery and gain a glimmer of insight into how devastating that moment feels. Your words to OM showed her that, not only had her husband been having a sexual relationship with you, but that deep feelings (perhaps words of love) had been expressed by both of you and that he had considered leaving her and their children for you. If you told him that your life was as bad as you said in your post, then she would have known instantly that he had told you that his life was the same.

She found out in a text message that her H did not love her, was suffering seeing her face first thing every morning, was merely enduring her kisses as he left the house and returned from work, was hating lying next to her in bed and wishing you were there instead, was hating spending weekends with her when he could not escape to work and had longed for their last holiday to be over because he could not stand pretending to be happy for extended periods in her company. For some time now he had wanted to get away from her, her boring parents, the tedious get togethers with friends in which happiness was being faked, the hypocritical wedding anniversary dinner at a restaurant that he had had to pretend to enjoy, his having had to sign cards to her with "love you always, X" when he hadn't meant it... he had hated everything about his unhappy lie of a marriage to her. He had wanted to be far away from everything to do with her, except for their children. He loved his children enough to try and give them stable childhoods, but every day was torture, and she had not known this until that moment. However difficult things had grown to be between them, she had never realised that he must be feeling THAT BAD, and she saw it in that moment she picked up his phone. You cannot imagine how that felt, but I can, because that is what happened to me (D Day 2).

What your OMW went on to do was to listen to him ask her not to give up on the marriage, to his telling her that he loved her and always had done, that he had not stayed only for the children and would not be doing so now, if she gave the marriage another chance. She had not believed him and does not still, but she is prepared to put her children's needs above her own, for now, and so she is staying in the marriage. She is living with monumental unhappiness because she knows her children would be badly affected by divorce, and she cannot bear to put her happiness above theirs. I don't know what he told her about his feelings for you, about the depth of your involvement and about what he had actually told you about loving you and leaving her. Be assured, however, that if she is prepared to try again in this marriage, she is choking on her misery over how intimate he became with you.

Quote:
(Dang, she has no idea the things he told me. She would so be out the door if she knew, even if they were just lies.)

It is very likely that she has by now found out the nature of the things he told you. Do you think that she is only prepared to stay because he has managed to pass off the affair as a fling, in which he was cool and upfront about what he wanted from you? Do you think that she has not demanded more details from him, that she has not challenged him when he gave the "light" version of the affair ("why is she saying these things about her feelings for you, if you never said them to her?"), that she has not picked him up endlessly on inconsistencies and illogical statements, that she has not asked him to show her previous emails between you and discovered the basic, appalling details of how far this relationship went?

You've made an apology to her, but I wonder whether you have really thought about what you have done to her. Certainly, you seem to think that their marriage is relatively untroubled, and that he is "merrily" going on with his life, and by implication, she with hers.

She is doing no such thing. She is thinking every minute when she is awake, and having bad dreams in her sleep, about whether he is lying about his feelings for her and cannot stand her, about whether he feels repulsion when she initiates sex and he makes an effort only because he has not got you, whether he cannot bear the way she feels inside, is disgusted by her stretch marks (that he gave her, with their children), finds her stringy breasts revolting and her ageing face and grey hairs peeking through, difficult to look at.

He probably feels no such thing, but she will not know that now, or for some time yet. He had a thrilling affair with you, a woman that he had long been attracted to, and so must find gorgeous. How does he come down from that and go back to loving the woman that he was driven away from?

When she works out, as I have done, that the problem is not with her but with her H, she will not feel any better. She will then be faced with trying to rebuild a marriage with a man who had no appreciation for what he has with her, no commitment to extraordinary protection for her or his marriage, no compunction about destroying his children's futures for sex on the side and only the fear of getting caught to stop him becoming involved with someone else further down the line.

She isn't feeling good about her life or her marriage and it will be a long time before she does again. You should acknowledge that, and never write about her again as if she is untouched by this and you are the victim.

A humbled FWS and insight into what is taken from a BS:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=003000

A more recent thread - even after 2+ yrs from Dday the trauma is still there - what to expect:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243887&page=1

Excerpt posted by skyrider on what a BS feels like: