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(((katey))))
Hope all goes well today.
Stand strong, my friend.


Me:BW, FWH 1DD 1DS
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Update....

Well it didn't turn out the way I wanted/hoped it would. I was hoping for the current order to stay as is with no contact from OW, have the boys attend counseling and get report from counselor as to boys readiness to be around OW. I'm still processing everything and letting it sink in.

The outcome:
WH has to attend counseling with DSs and initial appt has to be scheduled within 60 days.
The boys will get to decide if they want to spend visitation with WH and if they want to spend the night.

I arrive at courthouse and OW is there with WH. I was hopeful that she would be put on the stand to attest to her "good" judgement. It is ironic that WH who is still married brings his mistress to the courthouse with him. My atty meets with me prior to trial, and announces that WH is moving in with OW on March 1. He basically has moved in already, but is maintaining his apt for now when he has visitation. My atty claims that WH has told everyone, including the boys and they are fine with this. WH never told the boys, nor did he tell me.

So trial starts and my testimony lasts for an hour and a half. During this time I present history of WH announcing his adultery, timeline of all of this, all the violations, atty asked questions about whether or not WH talked with boys about having a girlfriend, their reactions/emotions. During cross examination, WH's atty tries to state that I've turned the boys against WH, that I've made derogatory remarks about him and his OW to the boys. NO, and I use PM's response from previous post (worked well- Thanks PM). His atty states that because the boys have been told that it is wrong for married people to have girlfriends/boyfriends that I'm telling the boys that their dad is wrong, is bad.... WHAT??? Oh also states that WH had been talking about getting a divorce for 2 years prior to d-day in 6/08. I stated that I was blindsided and that he didn't discuss this with me, his wife. Law Guardian also asked me questions. My atty said I did very well against the cross examination of his atty- she didn't shake me.

During my testimony I became so disgusted by WH and his reactions/expressions... he is so wayward... and it still hurts so much and now knowing that he is moving in with OW and her children. It is like another d'day. As my friend stated a few hours ago reality will begin setting in and breaking up the fantasy. IDK... it's still so devastating, but unfortunately a step of progression towards the end of an affair.

I had brought up how a year ago he had come to me stating he was confused, needed to go to counseling, he missed me and our boys and being with us, he loved me, he was still attracted to me. As I'm saying this, WH is shaking his head no, with such a defiant look on his face. Other times as I was giving testimony he had tears in his eyes, and cried a few times. What is that about?? Guilt?? or did something of what I said hit home, cause him to think??

Now, if the boys don't want to go with WH on visitation, or overnight, because he will be living with OW they don't have to. I requested that the LG meet with the boys to explain their role in visitation now, as I didn't want them to be swayed by me or WH. SHe will meet with them on Thursday.

The violations were never addressed, unless the counseling with WH and boys and the boys having the choice of whether they go on visitation with WH is looked at as a result of this

Is this a good outcome?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Sounds like it must have been exhausting.
I don't know how to answer your question except to say that you've done all that you can, and it's impossible to completely insulate your children from the pain since your H is so wayward. It's pretty shameful that he is in such denial, but the history rewrites are to be expected.
((katey))


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Yesterday was so exhausting.... I was the only one to testify. The boys' scout master was there as well but never called to testify. I was the only one.

A little more about yesterday... After my testimony WH and I were excused for a recess while the attys, LG, and judge discussed the case. This lasted for half an hour. When this was done WH's atty and WH and OW go to conference room behind closed doors for another half hour to discuss judge's decisions. My atty speaks with me for several minutes, I agree to judge's decisions with request that LG meet with boys to discuss these decisions and how they are to handle their "veto" vote of visitation. WH was not happy with the counseling, and there is the clause that if at any time the counselor wants to see me with them it will be allowed. WH had to agree to this.

So, over the past couple of weeks and esp. after yesterday and WH's reactions to my testimony, I have seriously given thought to at least filing legal seperation agreement and honestly I have thought of filing for divorce. The boys and I need the financial protection NOW b/c of WH moving in with OW. I have to do this sooner than later. As far as Plan B... I requested that WH not come to the boys activities that I'm at when they are with me... judge says this is not warrented and WH has every right to attend, and he encouraged WH to attend with or without OW/kids based on what DSs request. ??? with this and how to proceed??? It would be great to give Plan B letter when serving legal seperation ppwk.

So I am on FB and have the "God wants you to know" application. Today I open this and post to my wall and it is so very true....

"On this day, God wants you to know...
... that it's never too late to get back on track. Never has anyone gone so far on the wrong path that they cannot return to the right one. Never has anyone become so wayward that they cannot benefit from the true light."


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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The judge doesn't understand "plan B." He just wants to keep WH from becoming an absentee dad. His heart is in the right place (judge) but he isn't aware of the bigger picture. I don't think you'll get any movement on this, so a modified plan B will have to come into play. Others may have similar experience they can help with.


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Also, Katy, if you are truly contemplating Plan D...then all the plan B stuff becomes moot and the judges attempt to keep WH from becoming an absentee dad are probably valid. Remember in family court, he is not there to save your marriage..he's there to protect the interest of the kids. Of course we all know it's in the best interest of the kids to have two parents in a happy marriage (with each other) but that's not the court's objective.


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We're not center justified anymore?

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OH-we're NEVER justified! JK. I noticed the change, too. Someone moved my cheese AGAIN!


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What is a modified Plan B? Is there such a thing?

I'm still trying to comprehend that WH is moving in with OW. And, that DSs will be going there (their choice of course), but I'm sure they will go. It will be all fun and new for awhile, then what... As of today, DS15 says he will never spend the night there. OW's home is a doublewide and DSs state that it is real small, it will be real cozy with 5 children. My DS15, DS12, DS9; OW's DD14, DS12 (who is diagnosed with ADHD). I have already had several of DSs friends' parents tell me that they will never allow their children at OW"s house if DSs invite them. Also, my DS12's friend's do not like OW's DS12. What a mess.

Now that they will be living together will this help bring an end to the affair sooner than later, statistically speaking?

Do I just sit back with "my bowl of popcorn" and watch the fallout as reality sets in? Of course always being the safety net for DSs.

I don't want my marriage to end, I do love DH, and I don't want a divorce. But do I still go for the legal seperation (I have the grounds to get this, WH does not) for the financial protection now that he is living with OW? My concern is that after the legal seperation has been in effect for 1 year (after it is filed) then WH could file for a divorce and it would be granted. or do I just tighten up my seatbelt and keep hanging on this ride?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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More questions to add to above post....

WH and I have joint legal custody, but I have full physical custody. Friday, WH threatened me with "I will pick up DSs anytime I want wherever they are" This comes on the heels of Friday morning, WH calling DSs and asking them if they wanted to go snow tubing. However, WH never called to ask me first to see if DSs were not busy, they were... DS12 had friend sleep over and DS9 was at a friend's house for a sleep over. DSs 15/12 both said no. WH then talks with me telling me that he will not be able to pick boys up at 6, but at 10:30 after he gets back from snowtubing with OW's children. After hanging up I ask DSs if they were told that OW's children were going. WH never told them this (condition set by judge). I get a call from DS9's friend's mother... WH called and asked DS9 to go snow tubing and he said yes. I speak to DS9 and he didn't realize his brothers weren't going and that OW's children were going to be there. DS9 didn't want to go after hearing that. I call WH and tell him this, to which I and friend's mother get accused of influencing DS9. I remind WH that he didn't give all the facts to DS9 so he could make an informed choice. I encouraged WH to call DS9 and talk to him "I WILL". Then in the afternoon, he left 4 vm's stating that he will be picking up DSs at 6 as he is not going snow tubing and that he wants me to understand that.

WH picks up DSs and tells me to tell DS9's friend's mother that when he calls he expects her to answer her phone so he can talk to DS9 or to call him back if he leaves a message. This is when he made the statement/threat. After he leaves, I look into this further, WH did call and leave a message after already talking to DS9 2x but never left his phone number. I then request on DSs behalf, we were all in the same room, what activities with OW/children he was planning for DSs this weekend. I get "I don't have to tell you where or what I, I mean we, are doing with them" I remind him what the judge clearly stated that we both had the right to ask our DSs if they want to be with OW/children. "No you don't".

Again, WH interpreting how he wants what the judge stated to suit his wayward needs.

If I have full physical custody WH cannot just pick DSs up whenever he wants, right? Can I also state that OW is never to transport DSs to/from school and other activities?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Hi Katey.
Sorry I don't know the answers to your questions. How come your lawyer doesn't know the answer?


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I don't know either...

but I do recommend that if and when the day comes that you do file for divorce and temp orders pursuant to the same that you really request the court to be specific about it's instructions as your WH has created a lot of conflict and upset by loosely interpreting and constantly debating the "rules" of separation.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I finally have some time to login and update... recently had 2 huge snowstorms (20 inches last Wednesday and another 24 inches on Friday) that kept us busy shoveling. My DSs were wonderful about shoveling; almost without complaint smile. They are awesome boys!

As my atty told me after court hearing, even WH's atty had to admit how thick headed WH is being right now and that she realizes now that WH has never talked with our DSs about any of this as he claims. That brought a sense of satisfaction. My atty has stated that we will be back in court sooner than later due to WH being in contempt. He has until April 16 to schedule counseling appt for him and DSs. We, atty and I, do not think he will do this.

A bit of karma..... I know now why WH never went snowtubing a couple of weeks ago with OW and her kids (without DSs per their choice) and his annoyed attitude with me that evening when he picked up DSs. It seems that Support Collection went ahead and had WH's employer take out more $$ ($300 additional) than usual to catch him up on support payments. He obviously didn't have enough $$ to pay for this outing.

Again, this past weekend, WH asks me when we are going to schedule our appt to have our income taxes filed. I again tell him that "we" are not a "we" right now. WH responds with "but we're still married." You're right WH we are still married, but you chose to leave our home over a year ago. You did not live with us in our home for all of last year. "We have to file together." No, WH we don't, I already discussed with my atty and our accountant and I can file seperately as HOH and claim all 3 DS's. "You've already filed" Yes WH I have. "Well I will call my atty to see about this." OK, have a nice night.

And the fantasy world continues..... WH tells DSs 2 weeks ago that next year he and OW are going to be buying either 2 snowmobiles or 2 four-wheelers. HMMMMM..... WH is going to be losing his job in 1 1/2 yrs or less, is 2 mos. behind on his truck payment with the current month also due, he will have to pay IRS back when he files his tax return, his employer's new dental insurance does not cover braces and DS15 still has a balance of $4000.00 that he is responsible for 2/3 payment of (he will pay me $133/month because I front this), and next year DS9 will need orthodontics started, copays for counseling appts will be $100 a session(unless they just collect 1 copay vs. 4 copays) that he will have to front first...... I can't wait to see if OW will contribute to any of this... NOT!!

Oh, it is March 2 and WH has not moved in with OW. I don't know what to make of this?








BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Get ready for an implosion.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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I am praying for that implosion to happen soon, but I know it's not on my timetable. It's on HIS.

Well, my atty's statement of being back in court sooner than later is coming true....

I filed a violation against WH on Wednesday and should be getting paperwork soon in the mail re: court hearing. The reasons for the violation:
1. DS15/12 decided to come home after school last Thursday to get ready for their instrumental concert that evening. They informed WH of this that prev. Tuesday. DS9 still stated that he wanted to go to WH's Thursday. Thursday morning, 5 minutes before bus comes, DS9 states that he wants to come home with his brothers. I encouraged DS9 to still go, as he was stating as of the night before he was OK with going. DS9 tells me that he is nervous thinking that OW/kids will be there or he will have to go to their house. I told him that since his dad didn't say anything about them being there, he has to believe that they won't, but if they are we will be able to follow up with the judge. That afternoon, DS9 gets off of the bus at WH's apt. and so do OW's children. DS9 also told me that WH was sleeping in his bedroom with door closed when they all went inside. Then OW shows up (I assume after work) and they all eat dinner together. DS9 told me later that he was upset because he did not know they were going to be there, his dad did not let him have a choice, and he also doesn't like OW because she is loud.

2. Last Friday was DS12s (now DS13) birthday. It was DSs weekend visitation. Sunday evening after I pick DSs up, DS13 comes over to the car and proceeds to give me a HUGE hug. On Saturday, WH invited his parents, brother, and sister (who encouraged the adultery) to celebrate. OW and her kids also showed up and DS13 was not happy. He did not like that he was not asked by his dad if it was OK. I told him that WH did not ask his brothers to which I got "I don't care that he didn't ask them, it was MY birthday he should have asked me. Dad's card was signed Love, Dad and OW. She doesn't love me why was her name on my card." Then it proceeds to, "all dad does is stick up for OW's son (same age as DS13), he was not playing nicely with me and DS9 and dad didn't do anything. A couple of weeks ago, my friend went bowling with all of us and OW's son was not being nice and we told dad, but he just told my friend if he didn't stop he would be taken home" (first time I heard about this). I have an angry boy on my hands...... and as far as I know WH has not pursued getting any counseling appts scheduled. Also, on this day DS9 was at a friend's house for the afternoon and was picked up by WH, and OW's son was with him.

In court last month after the judge specifically stated that WH has to inform the boys when OW/kids will be present so that they can choose if they want to go (I'm also supposed to be informed so that I can talk with the boys as well), he asked WH "do you understand what I am saying?" Yes your honor.

Now, yesterday, WH asked DS15/9 (DS13 came home to get ready for choir concert last night) if it would be OK to go to OW's house for dinner. DS9 agreed, but DS15 asked to be brought home as he had a headache, which WH did bring him home. DS15 has been getting "sick" often on Tue & Th lately.

This morning I get the following email from WH...

"I just wanted to keep you informed, on April 29 to May 2 we are going to a Nascar race in Virginia. Both DS9 and DS13 said that they want to go and their tickets are bought. We will be leaving on Thursday night, they will not be in school Friday. DS15 said that he did not want to go with us so he will be home that weekend. Their tickets are part of their birthday
presents."

My first reaction is who the he!! is WH to tell me that he is pulling the boys out of school and his weekend visitation does not start until April 30th at 6:00 pm. WH has never discussed these plans with me, just the boys. Yes, the boys can choose if they want to go, but only if it is mutually agreed upon by me and WH first. I'm not sure how to reply yet... going to get advice first... Got any?? I also think I should forward this to the Law Guardian.

Also, I've been thinking about scheduling a phone session with the Harleys. I think I will be able to budget enough $$ by next month. Do you think this will still be beneficial for me at this point?


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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Grrrrr.....
How about this--you keep the boys home from school, take them somewhere--a relative's or something, and then when WH calls to find out why boys aren't in school you say they will be available at 6pm on Friday night, as per the custody arrangement.


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Hi Kateydid,

WOW - I will pray for you and your DSs. I cannot imagine how difficult all this has been for you lately (though I guess I may find out some day). I like IMA's advice about keeping the boys home from school so that WH cannot just take them.

Is there any way to prove to the school that WH does not have visitation until April 30th? They might be able to prevent WH from taking the boys if it is not his legal day to have them.

I hope that the courts take the DSs away from WH completely. He has absolutely no regard for what anyone else says - legally or otherwise. Waywards are so alike in that regard. Maybe the courts taking away his custody would wake him up a bit.

I don't know if counseling from the Harleys helps at this point either, but I have wondered that myself. I have one more session with Steve (I did one of the prepaid packages), but I have not scheduled it because I wasn't sure it would help anything. I was hoping that last one would be with WH and me together, but that's not looking like it's going to happen.

I just wanted you to know that I think about you and pray for you, even when I don't have a chance to be on the MB boards as much.


BW (me - 45)
WH - 45
2 DDs
Married 20 years, together 25
DDay Spring 2009
WH moves out Summer 2009 and in with OW
Plan A - 4 months
Very dark Plan B Fall 2009
WH files D Summer 2010
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Katy,

I'm not telling you that you have to suck it up. Play hard if you want to but if the boys really want to go to the race with their dad it may be OK for you to allow them.

You see....IF this ever comes down to a custody dispute your husband's attorney already has a lot of "evidence" upon which he can "claim" you are attempting to alienate WH. It's complete and utter bullcrap but evidence nonetheless. Plus...it's the ONLY defense he's got so I gaurantee it's the angle he'll take. Thus, you'll need things like letting the kids take an extra few hours with WH from time to time to demonstrate that you are actually trying to be cooperative and maintain their relationship with the father. This may not be the time you choose to "allow" it...so be tough if you want...I'm just keeping you aware.

That being said...I went and looked and the actual race in Richmond, VA isn't until saturday night at 7:30. The kids don't HAVE TO miss school. Maybe there are some other races and practice things scheduled for Friday afternoon or Friday night. I'm not sure how those things work but it seems you could email him or communicate that although you are excited for the kids to go you don't want the kids missing school (focusing on their best interests). Indicate that you are perfectly willing to let him take the boys at 3pm Friday, immediately after school and 3 hours before his visitation is supposed to start and that Thursday night just isn't acceptable. Also, you'll understand if he's late returning Sunday evening past the time he's supposed to return them.

You make the appearance of not interferring with his time with the boys AND willingness to give him extra time.

Of course being sure to point out that if the boy(s) change their mind...that is their perogative per the court order.

It also behooves you to put this stuff in writing (and keeping copies) so that you've got proof that you're not "alienating" him. (realize that I KNOW his alienation is completely his own doing)

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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Thanks Mr. W, Ima and AM.

Warning/disclaimer: I know this will be a long post already, since it's been awhile since I posted, and I'm venting, questioning, and am in a very negative, emotional mood. With that being said.....

I am in such a funk today. DSs are on visitation with WH. Earlier I went to DSs bowling activity, then to DS9's basketball program and driving home I'm thinking of what I'm going to do this afternoon.... sheets/blankets, air out the house (it is in the 60s and sunny here).... Then I walk into my home, quiet and empty, and just start crying and haven't done anything, except decide to post here.

Last night was DS9's annual scout dinner/awards. WH shows up with DS9 along with OW/her kids. I was going to leave, but I felt doing so would give a triumph to WH/OW's affair... they chased me away. As it worked out, thanks to other leaders, WH/OW/her kids ended up sitting at a table all by themselves. DSs sat with me and their groups. OW/her kids ended up leaving before this ended. I was told by several that she appeared uncomfortable. Perhaps a hit to a weak spot in the affair armory.

DS12 is in school play tonight and WH has bought tickets for him, DSs, OW and her kids. I asked DSs this morning if they were aware that they were all going together. WH has not said anything to them. DS15 not happy, and I did tell him that he doesn't have to sit with them. Oh, and it appears that I will be going by myself (friends I asked are all busy). So, they will all be together looking like a big happy family, while I'm by myself. Self-esteem gone.

I got the mail and there is the letter from Family Court acknowledging the violations I filed and subsequent hearing in early May(after WH's planned out of state trip with DSs) along with the formal custody order. In the custody order there is no mention of WH informing DSs when he is exercising his visitation and when he wants OW/kids present he has to inform boys so they can decide if they want to be present. But, this was stated in court by the Judge with my atty clarifying certain points.

I am scared as to how WH will react when he gets his ppwk in the mail. I am back in the mindset that if I "take a stand" like this I'll push WH farther from me. IC tells me sometimes we do the right things for the right reasons and we also do the right things for the wrong reasons.... HUH?? To make a point he then states, "well yeah you better take it easy and be compliant to WH b/c he may just leave you for another woman...."

I've also been reading some of the "bumped" threads esp. about the statistics of the WS/OP affair relationship. What hits me the most is the statement that the majority of all these affairs end within 2 yrs (I know there is give and take with this number), but my WH and OW are a few months shy of the 2 yr mark and their relationship seems to be very strong with no end in sight. I'm sure it doesn't help that I have friends say to me that they thought for sure this would have ended by now given the type of person OW is. She was talking with a former boyfriend at the local gas station just the other day- easy to see this in a small town.

I haven't responded yet to WH's email informing me his plans to take DS13/9 to the car race, out of state, outside of his visitation schedule, pulling them out of school without discussing/requesting any of this with me. My IC is recommending that I respond back via email cc'ing my atty and the law guardian. I need to point out that there was no discussing with me prior to asking DSs, requesting add'l time with them outside of the vis schedule, and deciding to pull them out of school (illegal absence).

IC also states that I have every right to deny WH this due to the school issue, as you stated Mr. W. I like your suggestion of offering the extra time after school on Friday and Sunday. Per IC, I have every right to inquire about the sleeping arrangements b/c if they will all be sleeping in the same hotel room that is inappropriate where DSs are concerned (they will have to see their married father sleeping with his girlfriend). And, they haven't even started counseling yet with WH.

WH still has not moved in with her, nor has he given a 30 day notice to move out (I know the person who collects the rent). If he moves out without notice he will not get his security deposit back. I don't see WH just giving this $$ up. I still think he made this statement in court last month as a manipulation tactic.

Kateydid



BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 256
J
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J
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 256
((((Kateydid))))

I am so sorry - I know this is awful and I see myself being in your position at some point. I am fearful of being there, as I know what it will do to my new found self-esteem.

Have you asked DS9 and DS12 if they know the full facts of the vacation plans with WH? That may make a huge difference to them, and they may decide they don't want to go. It's not fair for WH to ask them to go to things and not give them complete info about who will be there, etc. Personally, I would make WH stick to the agreement that vacations, etc don't happen without plans being discussed with you first. Waywards never follow rules, but at some point, shouldn't a court force them to?

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I don't understand how a court can allow a married man to carry on the way yours does and allow him to flaunt it before his children. It's just wrong! rant2

Maybe the fact that WH has not yet moved in with OW is a good sign. Don't count on it, but maybe...

I hope your weekend got better. Know that I am sending good thoughts your way. You are a beautiful person, trying to raise your DSs to be good, honest men someday. DSs will always remember that you were the good example in their life. You were there for them when they needed you and you are the strong one. Everyone in your community knows that you are the one in the right - you deserve to be respected and loved. Even if it doesn't always seem like it, people do know the truth, and they know you are a good person who deserves so, so much better. Stand tall and proud!
smile


BW (me - 45)
WH - 45
2 DDs
Married 20 years, together 25
DDay Spring 2009
WH moves out Summer 2009 and in with OW
Plan A - 4 months
Very dark Plan B Fall 2009
WH files D Summer 2010
Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

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