Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 11 12
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Originally Posted By: CWMI
It is possible to not do anything that hurts your spouse without sacrificing what you want, if what you want is a happy, mutually satisfying, compatible marriage. Above anything else: opposite sex friendships, eating out, material possessions, trips, etc.

IF you want those things ABOVE wanting a good marriage, then I can see why someone would think they were sacrificing.


I do not want any of those things above a good marriage i prefer keeping my spouse happy, but i still see it as a sacrifice..........

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy
[

I do not ask my h to go out to "sit down restaurants" with me as i know he does not like them. He will ocassionally say "hey do you want to go out to eat at so and so" and i gladly accept and we have a great time. I am sure that it is a sacrifice to him because i know that he does not like to go to "sit down restaurants'.


Another solution would be to find something that makes you BOTH happy. Rather than doing something that makes you happy at his expense, a better solution would be to find something that makes you BOTH happy by brainstorming solutions. If he doesn't like to eat out, then you should NEVER eat out together. A better solution might be to make a nice dinner at home together and play some board game you both like.

But using this strategy of WIN-LOSE is what leads to an unhappy marriage and before long, your H will be looking for reasons NOT to do anything with you because that time together is spent doing things that makes him unhappy.

That is sort of a moot point if you are still splitting up, but if you were to try and recover the marriage, that would be the approach I would take.


Regardless of what approach we take one of us will have to "sacrifice" for the betterment of the marriage and it is okay if we do that.......

And we have been together for 25 years and i do not think he resents eating out with me every once in a while...... especially since it is at his suggestion......

The issues that my h and i have do not have anything to do with sacrificing.........

Neither of us have a problem with sacrificing...........

He has a problem with thinking it is okay to be friends with members of the opposite sex and i do not think it is okay therefore i have decided to move on rather than try to change his mind on men and women "being friends".

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Originally Posted By: Telly
Still_crazy,

I understand where folks are coming from. They are trying to tell you that if you find things to replace the things you are giving up for your husband... things that truly make you both happy... then you will no longer feel like those other things were sacrifices.

It's like if I give up cheeseburgers, and find that the new brand of veggie burgers tastes just as good--even better. Then you'd hear me saying "I don't even miss it" vs. "I've had to give up burgers!"

Or... let's say I really like going to restaurants, but my husband doesn't. We decide that I'm going to have one night a month with the girls, and will go to my favorite restaurants that night... And then, my husband and I take up ballroom dance or something--and I end up feeling like I don't even miss going to restaurants with him.

If you haven't had the experience of your husband negotiating things with you to the point where you both are genuinely happy, then Of COURSE you are sacrificing. I mean, it sounds like you simply no longer go to sit down restaurants, rather than talk together about what you're going to do instead.

Does this make any sense?


I do not do girls nights out and he does not do guys nights out, we do it together or we do not do it and it has been that way our entire marriage by our choice.......

And i do simply no longer go to sit down restaurants except on rare occasions that he asks me to go or i go with my kids but even then i would prefer that my H be with me and i miss him being there and enjoying the dinner with us as a family......

But guess what, it is okay, i do not resent the fact that i can't go to sit down restaurants, it is not a big deal to me, i do other things that make me happy instead.

However IMHO i am still sacrificing for the betterment of my marriage..... and i am okay with it, it is not a BAD thing......

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
Why are you tolerating same-sex friendships from a known cheater? No wonder you feel sacrificial. You've laid down with WELCOME printed across your back.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,437
THAT kind of sacrifice is DEADLY to your marriage.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
I am not tolerating same sex friendships.....

That is why i am currently not working on recovering my marriage.....

Still doesn't change anything about my opinion to posters when it comes to "sacrifice".

And i do not feel "sacrificail" as you put it, i do not feel BAD about sacrificing one little bit and i think it is a MUST in any marriage......

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy
I am not tolerating same sex friendships.....

That is why i am currently not working on recovering my marriage.....

Still doesn't change anything about my opinion to posters when it comes to "sacrifice".

And i do not feel "sacrificail" as you put it, i do not feel BAD about sacrificing one little bit and i think it is a MUST in any marriage......


It is a must in a failing marriage.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy
I am not tolerating same sex friendships.....

That is why i am currently not working on recovering my marriage.....

Still doesn't change anything about my opinion to posters when it comes to "sacrifice".

And i do not feel "sacrificail" as you put it, i do not feel BAD about sacrificing one little bit and i think it is a MUST in any marriage......
OK ....

Putting
"sacrifice" aside, for a moment.

Look at the other parts of the Renter/Buyer side-by-side comparison.
Are there other parts of this that you fundamentally disagree with (besides the sacrifice) ?



Quote:
Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
And my h does not truly have "friendships" with members of the opposite sex and never really has....

He just does not think there is a problem "being friendly" with members of the opposite sex and i do.....

I do not think that married people should "be friendly" with members of the opposite sex PERIOD....

You certainly do not have to be rude, but you also do not have to be "friendly" either.....

And this is also something that comes up on this board time and time again.

Can men and women be "friends" and a lot of posters here seem to think that they can and so does my h....

I however do not and i know longer wish to continue recovering if we can not even agree on that one simple thing......

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy
I am not tolerating same sex friendships.....

That is why i am currently not working on recovering my marriage.....

Still doesn't change anything about my opinion to posters when it comes to "sacrifice".

And i do not feel "sacrificail" as you put it, i do not feel BAD about sacrificing one little bit and i think it is a MUST in any marriage......


It is a must in a failing marriage.


I disagree..........

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy



I disagree..........


I know you disagree. You disagree because, you are a Renter. Sacrifice is more than "OK" with Renters.
In fact, Renters place a high value on sacrifice.

But, putting that aside for now, look at the other descriptions of a Renter arrangement.
Do you also place a high value on the other Renter agreements?


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Being a Renter is not a bad thing.
But, both spouses becoming Buyers (eventually) is a way better Marriage.


Quote:


According to Harley

most happily married couples have worked their way up from Freeloaders to Renters and finally to Buyers.

He says the problem arises when partners do not eventually become Buyers.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy
I am not tolerating same sex friendships.....

That is why i am currently not working on recovering my marriage.....

Still doesn't change anything about my opinion to posters when it comes to "sacrifice".

And i do not feel "sacrificail" as you put it, i do not feel BAD about sacrificing one little bit and i think it is a MUST in any marriage......
OK ....

Putting
"sacrifice" aside, for a moment.

Look at the other parts of the Renter/Buyer side-by-side comparison.
Are there other parts of this that you fundamentally disagree with (besides the sacrifice) ?



Quote:
Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.


Me personally, I do not like labels at all.......

I do not believe people all fit into little categories and that there is too much outside influences on all of us to be labeled as anything.....

You can have parts in one thing and parts from another but more in one than the other so where does that leave you.....

By looking at your list i believe that my h and i both are more BUYERS than anything but as i said i am sure we have some traits that fall under RENTER as well, and IMHO as do all of us..........

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
For me, the harder part of the process (Renter to Buyer) was this ...

Quote:
Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.


I was very much focused on "fairness" or "justice" ...
It took me a long time to change this part, for myself.
This required an attitude adjustment. (mine)

And, I think this is very important point to make in the flow of this thread/conversation.

ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT (ours)

For each of us who is actually using Harley principles to improve our marriage we must require an attitude adjustment
in ourselves !

I very much see this as a process.
And, the process, is a winning formula.

The Renter to Buyer is a development.
It is a growing process.
It requires us to think new ways.

Not often easy.

Harder for some people than others.

I can say, I can usually tell who is going to be the more successful at this, the MBers who mostly write about their own behaviors vs the MBers who mostly write about their spouses behaviors.(making a generalization not a judgment)

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy


I do not believe people all fit into little categories and that there is too much outside influences on all of us to be labeled as anything.....



Why not simply state that you reject the Harley methods in their entirety, and move on to another discussion?

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Well i believe

"We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful"

I do not expect anything from my h in return for my sacrifices, i do it because i want to and no other reason, because i enjoy making him happy, it makes me happy to make him happy....

So if making him happy means i have to go to a basketball game now and then, it is not a big deal and i do not expect him to do something in return because i went to the basketball game.....

It is about making the other person happy, not at your expense but because you want to.....

Either way IMHO it is still sacrificing and it is NOT a BAD thing.........

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy


I do not believe people all fit into little categories and that there is too much outside influences on all of us to be labeled as anything.....



Why not simply state that you reject the Harley methods in their entirety, and move on to another discussion?


Because that would be a lie.......

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy


Because that would be a lie.......



Why not simply state that you reject FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES of the Harley methods, and move on to another discussion?

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
I reject one fundamental principle of the Harleys method....

Why not just ask me to leave your thread if that is what you want.....

I am not trying to be argumentative, i am as i have stated several time confused by this and i think other posters probably are as well because once again

IMHO it is IMPOSSIBLE to do both......

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Still_Crazy


"We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful"


But your marriage is not successful, so apparently you don't. You wrote this in November when you had your thread moved to the Divorce Forum:

Originally Posted By: StillCrazy
We have decided to quit working on the marriage and go our separate ways. However because of a lot of things it is easier to stay in the same house until we have to move out. I have moved into our ODD old room and we are living separately under the same roof as of this past weekend.


Do you think Dr Harley was right when he said this in the mission statement at the top of every page?

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Page 5 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 11 12

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 36 guests, and 54 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mwid, Shepherd, alg, Pelican89, SRL
71,672 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,526
Posts2,322,549
Members71,673
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5