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I think it would serve folks well to read how Krazy agonized over telling his WW.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=156454&Number=2225358#Post2225358

Remember, Krazy WALKED IN on his wife doing the deed with the OM.

I totally get this as it happened to me in college with a long time girlfriend and a friend of mine. So I can empathize with how he may have felt after such an experience.

She may have been doing nearly everything. But apparently, that wasn't enough. How do you erase that image from his mind?

Maybe I'd say if one has been betrayed before, don't bother trying recovery the next time, as it will only bring back those past hurts.

Like I've said, if it should happen to me again, I'd probably just walk away to save myself the grief of another failed attempt to reconcile a marriage, not to mention having to fight the urges to simply kill everyone involved in the affair.

I don't think waywards understand how sometimes those thoughts play out in the minds of the ones they betray.

99% of us don't act on those thoughts. The other 1% end up on Lifetime or some other docu-drama network, LOL.

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So is Krazy's anger and resentment only his to deal with? Or does his WW/XW bear some responsibility in healing?

Just as a WW may (not often) look to see if her BH really gets it, is really committed to meeting her needs, the same is true for a BH. He has to watch to see if the WW not only ends the affair, but does what Dr H calls provide just compensation.

It's not enough to say, "The affair is wrong, I can't believe I did that." What did she do to repair the damage? What did she do to help him heal?

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.
To your first question, was Krazy's anger and resentment his alone to deal with--I say YES!!!!!!!
You see, that is the ONLY thing he can control He can't control what his then WW did, and couldn't control what happened in her life, but he COULD control how he would respond to her attempts at reconciliation. He COULD control how he dealt with his rage.
Actually he DID. He CHOSE to remain enraged.
I do the same thing. But I OWN the consequences. I don't blame the MB program.
And Krazy clearly stated that his FWW did tons of things to try to recover the marriage.


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Originally Posted by OurHouse
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The point of the thread notwithstanding, ML...I read Schtoop's post as utter frustration with his WW refusing to go along with a plan for recovery. She has now..twice? three times? gone behind Schtoop's back and contacted OM. I don't blame him for having second thoughts.

Unfortunately, schtoop has not taken much of our advice regarding exposure, etc, so he hasn't done a very thorough Plan A at all saying he didn't "need to do exactly" what we advised. The result has been numerous "closure" meetings between his wife and her lover. Affairs thrive on secrecy, after all, and he did it his own way.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Krazy71
IN MY OPINION, most people would be better off going straight to Plan D.

But, you aren't qualified to speak for most people, you can only speak for yourself. I was not "better off" going to Plan D and neither were many of the others here who are in a full recovery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Krazy71
Did I mention this was my opinion?
Yes

I don't think It's what you said, it's how you said it that is bothering folks.


Also, this is a pro marriage site, filled with people looking for hope and guidance after an affair. And others looking to give hope and guidance to them.

Your message is all gloom and doom about marriage after an affair.

You yourself stated in the first post that you knew it would not be popular, so why are you acting surprised?




Me, I'm happy for you.
I think any BS has the RIGHT to divorce any time they want to, for any reason they want to.

But I don't support discouraging BS's that want to try recovery.

Last edited by Gack1; 03/10/10 11:16 AM.

Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Originally Posted by imanotherone
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So is Krazy's anger and resentment only his to deal with? Or does his WW/XW bear some responsibility in healing?

Just as a WW may (not often) look to see if her BH really gets it, is really committed to meeting her needs, the same is true for a BH. He has to watch to see if the WW not only ends the affair, but does what Dr H calls provide just compensation.

It's not enough to say, "The affair is wrong, I can't believe I did that." What did she do to repair the damage? What did she do to help him heal?

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.
To your first question, was Krazy's anger and resentment his alone to deal with--I say YES!!!!!!!
You see, that is the ONLY thing he can control He can't control what his then WW did, and couldn't control what happened in her life, but he COULD control how he would respond to her attempts at reconciliation. He COULD control how he dealt with his rage.
Actually he DID. He CHOSE to remain enraged.
I do the same thing. But I OWN the consequences. I don't blame the MB program.
And Krazy clearly stated that his FWW did tons of things to try to recover the marriage.

Well, if one uses that logic, then the anger, disappointment or whatever that convinces a WW or WH to have an affair is theirs alone and there is no need for plan A or B.

Let them go, and once they work it out, then maybe we let them come back to the marriage.

It just doesn't work that way in a marriage. If my spouse has a problem, WE have a problem. If my spouse is angry, WE have a problem.

Otherwise, what is the point of having a spouse if anger or any other negative emotion is theirs along to work out.

So I disagree, if my spouse is angry, especially over something I did, WE have a problem, and it's not wise to just let her work it out on her own.

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Originally Posted by Krazy71
What's with all the speculation? What's the point?

I've tried recovering a marriage after infidelity, and I've experienced divorce.

IN MY OPINION, most people would be better off going straight to Plan D.

Did I mention this was my opinion?

I guess I'm confused, then. Why are you on a marriage building site to espouse your opinion that most people are better off going to Plan D? Why are you not on a Divorce site, saying that to support people who are choosing/chose divorce?


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Me, I'm happy for you.
I think any BS has the RIGHT to divorce any time they want to, for any reason they want to.

But I don't support discouraging BS's that want to try recovery.

Ditto for me.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So she, knowing that he experienced that in his life decided an affair was her best course of action.

I guess my problem with all of this is that folks appear to be defending MB, instead of focusing on the damage her affair apparently did.

Even in the face of her doing everything right, according to Krazy, even that wasn't enough to save the marriage.

Why? She had broken trust.
OK, even as a BS, I'm going to have to cry foul on this one. I don't thin that even Krazy thinks his wife CHOSE to have this affair because she knew, based on his past, that it would crush him. Most A's happen because the wayward was THOUGHTLESS, not acting out of malice.
As angry as I still am at my FWH, I would never say that he had his A because he WANTED to krush me. It was because he was only thinking about himself.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by OurHouse
[
The point of the thread notwithstanding, ML...I read Schtoop's post as utter frustration with his WW refusing to go along with a plan for recovery. She has now..twice? three times? gone behind Schtoop's back and contacted OM. I don't blame him for having second thoughts.

Unfortunately, schtoop has not taken much of our advice regarding exposure, etc, so he hasn't done a very thorough Plan A at all. Affairs thrive on secrecy, after all.

You left out my caveat where I explained I hadn't read the whole thread so didn't know if what plan Schtoop was (or was not) executing.

It's subtle, ML, but by quoting only part of my post, you changed the meaning slightly.

Just wanted readers to be clear that I wrote that having NOT read Schtoop's thread. A subtle, but important distinction.

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I'm as qualified to encourage divorce as you are to encourage recovery.

The people here at MB aren't an accurate cross-section of people. It's not surprising that there is a higher than average number of successfuly recovered marriages at a site called "Marriage Builders".


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Instead of a blanket discouragement, how about brainstorming the things that make choosing plan D the best option.

Because we know, there are some cases where plan D is the right choice. There are other cases where recovery has a chance.

So what are the absolute killers, that when they are present, plan D is the best course of action.

So instead of blanket statements, where is plan D indicated?

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It's not surprising that are a higher than average number of successfuly recovered marriages at a site called "Marriage Builders".

There could be a reason for that. wink


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Originally Posted by OurHouse
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by OurHouse
[
The point of the thread notwithstanding, ML...I read Schtoop's post as utter frustration with his WW refusing to go along with a plan for recovery. She has now..twice? three times? gone behind Schtoop's back and contacted OM. I don't blame him for having second thoughts.

Unfortunately, schtoop has not taken much of our advice regarding exposure, etc, so he hasn't done a very thorough Plan A at all. Affairs thrive on secrecy, after all.

You left out my caveat where I explained I hadn't read the whole thread so didn't know if what plan Schtoop was (or was not) executing.

It's subtle, ML, but by quoting only part of my post, you changed the meaning slightly.

Just wanted readers to be clear that I wrote that having NOT read Schtoop's thread. A subtle, but important distinction.

Might be a good idea to actually read the thread before you comment, huh? crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by Krazy71
What's with all the speculation? What's the point?

I've tried recovering a marriage after infidelity, and I've experienced divorce.

IN MY OPINION, most people would be better off going straight to Plan D.

Did I mention this was my opinion?

I guess I'm confused, then. Why are you on a marriage building site to espouse your opinion that most people are better off going to Plan D? Why are you not on a Divorce site, saying that to support people who are choosing/chose divorce?

You are right. I'll drop it.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by OurHouse
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by OurHouse
[
The point of the thread notwithstanding, ML...I read Schtoop's post as utter frustration with his WW refusing to go along with a plan for recovery. She has now..twice? three times? gone behind Schtoop's back and contacted OM. I don't blame him for having second thoughts.

Unfortunately, schtoop has not taken much of our advice regarding exposure, etc, so he hasn't done a very thorough Plan A at all. Affairs thrive on secrecy, after all.

You left out my caveat where I explained I hadn't read the whole thread so didn't know if what plan Schtoop was (or was not) executing.

It's subtle, ML, but by quoting only part of my post, you changed the meaning slightly.

Just wanted readers to be clear that I wrote that having NOT read Schtoop's thread. A subtle, but important distinction.

Might be a good idea to actually read the thread before you comment, huh? crazy

In an ideal world, yes. In my limited time today, no.

I still think that Schtoop's reasons for doubting the recovery of his marriage stand, based ONLY on what he posted here today. I added that caveat STRICTLY so people here on the board wouldn't take me to task for what I don't know. You know...admit the objection up front so your buyer can't throw it out there as an obstacle.

Therefore, this is not an obstacle.

Thank you. Back to krazy's topic.

Carry on.

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Originally Posted by Krazy71
I'm as qualified to encourage divorce as you are to encourage recovery.

The people here at MB aren't an accurate cross-section of people. It's not surprising that there is a higher than average number of successfuly recovered marriages at a site called "Marriage Builders".

So, again, why are you not on a Divorce Support Forum? Of COURSE there will be a higher than average number of recovered marriages here! It's a site designed to encourage recovery! You're not going to find a lot of Chemical Engineers on a Needlepoint Discussion Forum - it wasn't designed for Chemical Engineers! doh2 You're not going to find Scientologists spreading their religion on a Baptist Discussion Forum for the same reason! The Baptist posters would accuse them of flaming and would probably bar them from the site!

Marriage Builders is a site encouraging the Building of Marriages! doh2 doh2


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Originally Posted by Krazy71
I'm as qualified to encourage divorce as you are to encourage recovery.

No, I am not qualified to decide what is best for others and neither are you. You have stated that you believe that divorce is right for ALL marriages that suffer infidelity and you are simply not qualified to discern that for others.

And you do this on a marital RECOVERY BOARD. crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by imanotherone
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So she, knowing that he experienced that in his life decided an affair was her best course of action.

I guess my problem with all of this is that folks appear to be defending MB, instead of focusing on the damage her affair apparently did.

Even in the face of her doing everything right, according to Krazy, even that wasn't enough to save the marriage.

Why? She had broken trust.
OK, even as a BS, I'm going to have to cry foul on this one. I don't thin that even Krazy thinks his wife CHOSE to have this affair because she knew, based on his past, that it would crush him. Most A's happen because the wayward was THOUGHTLESS, not acting out of malice.
As angry as I still am at my FWH, I would never say that he had his A because he WANTED to krush me. It was because he was only thinking about himself.

I didn't say it was malicious, I was saying the same thing. It was thoughtless. Good grief, I said that she chose an affair as the best course of action knowing that was in his past. I didn't say she chose it BECAUSE of it. She chose the affair while being knowledgeable of his past.

So you can sugar coat it and say it's thoughtless. You can twist my words to mean something I didn't say. I.E. you used the word malice, when I did not mean, nor even come close to saying malice.

Frankly, you nor I could know if she had malice in her heart. But we both know she likely knew of his past and chose the affair anyway.

That makes it worse, knowing how something is more hurtful and selfishly or maliciously or without regard, choosing it anyway.

Regardless why she chooses it, it cannot be denied that given prior hurts, the act is even MORE hurtful.

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So I disagree, if my spouse is angry, especially over something I did, WE have a problem, and it's not wise to just let her work it out on her own.

IF the WS has shown absolutely NO remorse, then I would say you're correct. But IF the FWS is doing everything (by Krazy's own account) to reconcile, then no, I think it's up to the individual to work on their recovery.
I could easily sit here like Krazy and say it's ALL MY FWH's fault that we haven't recovered, but that would not be honest. If I'm truly honest with myself, I understand that in a relationship, I am responsible for working with my demons.
Heck, for all I know, my own personal sense of pride and some early childhood trauma could be responsible for my failure to forgive. I can't blame my H for that. Sure, I blame him for the A, but how I react to his attempts at recovery are mine to own.
Anything else, in my opinion, would be a cop-out.


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