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So what does everyone want from Larry NOW?

He's apologized, come to further understanding about his relationship, done self-assessment, had a few revelations. What more do you expect? When will it ever be enough?

You don't agree with his actions. Fine, don't agree. No one is required to do so.

Everyone has vented. Now where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by MrsWondering
I would point out that what we read was a State Supreme Court decision - Larry has named the particular state in many of his posts - Both state and federal Supreme Court decisions are PUBLIC DOMAIN. It is simple to go to a state supreme court website and look up a case - You do not have to be an attorney to do so.

What sent our "baloney detectors" into overdrive and caused us to even bother looking it up, was Larry's declaration of "Btw, I'm not in an affair marriage" on a thread where no one had said a word about "affairages". That was puzzling. Never once have Mr. W or I felt the need to state "Btw, we are not in an affair marriage". That would be STRANGE. Sorta like me saying "I am not a baloney sandwich"...Why would anyone bother to do so unless somehow they were indeed a baloney sandwich??? Your words sent up the red flags, Larry. So there ya go.

Well, we all have baloney detectors. I would appreciate reference to the thread you address. Once I know what you are talking about, I would be more than glad to address it. From what you say, you could be on to something. Could I have lied to myself in the past. Of course I could. As you well know, that capacity exists full blown in most of us. On the other hand, I would prefer to see it in b/w as opposed to your interpretation.

Now, Larry, you actually told people on your thread to "go look it up on the web". [referring to the State Supreme Court Decision] It's pretty odd to cry foul when someone takes you up on that. Perhaps if you are concerned about people on a public forum doing what you directed them to do, um, I dunno, maybe you should reconsider your words of direction? I suppose you could ask Justuss to edit all of your posts where you mention the specific state.


Larry you keep talking about "straw man" arguments. I'm not sure how asking questions regarding the FACTS in a State Supreme Court decision qualifies as such. Perhaps you consider classifying the BH in a sympathetic manner as such, since you continue to point out what an "abusive jerk" your victim [BH] is...dontknow You even go so far as to say he got what he "deserved". WOW.


Ok, here we go: Presented as fact,

Quote
We are angry at you because you made your exWW's BH look like a raving lunatic. In reality, he probably did not have enough money for a lawyer, felt that the legal system was stacked against him, and lost everything. To top it off, his exWW was being bankrolled by you. How would you expect him to react? My guess is his behavior wasn't much different than most BH's on this board.

Mr.W also made up some straw men allegations that have subsequently been deleted, which is part of where PSU got the above.


It would be great if you could understand that the character of the BH IS NOT RELEVANT - Adultery is a black and white issue - ADULTERY IS ALWAYS WRONG.

Now you are doing just fine. I completely and totally understand that the character of the BH is not relevant. That is what I understand TODAY, this week. I didn't understand that at time. I have always known that adultery is wrong. Much of our culture sanctions a form of adultery when the persons involved are getting a divorce. This is what I subscribed to at the time, but no longer believe, because I have learned differently.

Didn't you live and learn? Well, so did I.

I do have a question for you. Would it have been all right if I had met XW after divorce was final? Your opinion please. You might want to disagree with me, but in my own mind, I am thinking that several years should pass before anyone should think about another relationship.


After an affair, Dr. Harley recommends taking extraordinary precautions to protect against another affair occurring. He says that the conditions that led to the affair must be eliminated. Your affair with a married woman occurred because you were advising said married woman in crisis on an internet forum, correct? What is it you do here again? Advise married women in crisis, right? redflag

Please show me posts where I have deviated from Dr. Harley's methods and teaching. And no, that was not the purpose of the forum. The forum dealt with help for abused women, where to get it, vetting the abuse, etc. We did not deal with married women as such, just abuse and sometimes that meant married women who were being abused.

I am sincerely praying for your repentance.

Mrs. W

I addressed the character of the XH to provide context, to refute characterizations that were not true and a look at how I thought THEN. I thought I was "Rescuing" someone in distress. sigh

I have acknowledged I was wrong. What is it about "I was an idiot" doesn't sink in Mrs.W?

Larry

Last edited by _Larry_; 04/23/10 06:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by marriedforever
We do not care ONE BIT about who posts here, whether they are a BS, WS, FWS...some of the best posters here are the FWSs...Mrs. W, tst, for example. No one cares one bit that they made horrific mistakes, what we DO care about is their frank honesty NOW and that they "get" what they did. The admiration for posters such as this is GREAT.

I DO care and whether some of the "best" posters are former waywards is a matter of opinion.

And how do you KNOW the level of honesty each poster is giving you?

You don't.

But you do what you can to help with the information you have. No one is asked to sign an affidavit of honesty, sometimes they are not capable of honesty with THEMSELVES yet, let alone to other posters waiting with 2x4s - when they get there, hopefully they can do so.

I SEE Larry getting to his own realizations and addressing them. I don't GET why it is not sufficient. You'll accept it from others you consider wayward - why not Larry?

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LARRY!!!

Seriously...it's not that complicated. Everyone understands that you are an OM...THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

The issue is that you NEVER ADMITTED THIS TO THE BOARD.

So you've admitted you were an idiot by getting involved with a married woman. Big whoop, that isn't the issue!

Once again...the issue is that you KEPT THIS FROM THE BOARD FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by wildhorses74
So what does everyone want from Larry NOW?

He's apologized, come to further understanding about his relationship, done self-assessment, had a few revelations. What more do you expect? When will it ever be enough?

You don't agree with his actions. Fine, don't agree. No one is required to do so.

Everyone has vented. Now where do we go from here?

Eh, he is fine by me, no problems here.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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I SEE Larry getting to his own realizations and addressing them. I don't GET why it is not sufficient. You'll accept it from others you consider wayward - why not Larry?

See my last post, it applies to you as well. This isn't what everyone is upset about.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Quote
I SEE Larry getting to his own realizations and addressing them. I don't GET why it is not sufficient. You'll accept it from others you consider wayward - why not Larry?

See my last post, it applies to you as well. This isn't what everyone is upset about.

Well, "everyone" isn't upset.

What would you like Larry to do NOW? How long must he take the 2x4s? What do want from him NOW?




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Originally Posted by wildhorses74
I SEE Larry getting to his own realizations and addressing them. I don't GET why it is not sufficient. You'll accept it from others you consider wayward - why not Larry?

Because Larry harmed a betrayed spouse by coming between him and his children by facilitating his then paramour's attack against that father.

And Larry's responsibility for this culpability as an OM has NOT been taken.

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What would you like Larry to do NOW? How long must he take the 2x4s? What do want from him NOW?

Personally I think it would be helpful if he had this ridiculous, justifying thread deleted and then started another thread apologizing to the board for his lack of total honesty in not admitting the M he was trying to save was actually an affairage.

But that's just me.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by _Larry_
I believe that if I am to follow Dr. Harley's beliefs, then I must also follow his method delivering those beliefs and that means, without judging a person for who they are.

Except when it comes to judging your XW's current husband.
You've excelled at that.


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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by _Larry_
I believe that if I am to follow Dr. Harley's beliefs, then I must also follow his method delivering those beliefs and that means, without judging a person for who they are.

Except when it comes to judging your XW's current husband.
You've excelled at that.

LOL.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by _Larry_
Well, we all have baloney detectors. I would appreciate reference to the thread you address. Once I know what you are talking about, I would be more than glad to address it. From what you say, you could be on to something. Could I have lied to myself in the past. Of course I could. As you well know, that capacity exists full blown in most of us. On the other hand, I would prefer to see it in b/w as opposed to your interpretation.

Sure, no problem!

The rest of your post I'll have to get back to you on, as I am busy packing for our family to go out of town...I may see if Mr. W has time, since the words you are questioning are his...

Originally Posted by _Larry_
rotflmao

Yep. Here is an example. X wife and I were fighting her, uh, XH over custody. He was a complete jerk, telling the kids that our dog was from the devil, I was going to sell them south of the border to a bunch of "Mexicans." And those were just some of the milder examples. Others were calling her a "Ho," a slut, and not a Christian, yada, yada, yada. BTW, we did NOT have an affair marriage. I refused to have anything to do with her until the divorce was filed, then as a friend until it was final.

We spent about 15K moving custody to Texas where our recordings and the testimony of a shrink cooked his goose. He sued in KY in trial court, lost, appealed, lost, then KY Supreme Court.

During KY Supreme Court, the head Judge asked,"Did he really say that?" Lawyer said, "Yes, Your Honor, we have the audio tapes." "Ok," said Judge. End of trial.

Later on, there was a decision. Supreme disagreed with lower courts and MADE UP THEIR OWN REASON to deny what XH wanted. I still laugh when I think about it. That was NOT a slam at lower courts. That was a stick it to XH.

Larry

[emphasis mine]

***LINK TO THREAD***

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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And Larry's responsibility for this culpability as an OM has NOT been taken.

He does not OWE that to the board, IMHO.

I see him addressing each and every post, thinking it through, coming to realizations, and responding. He doesn't HAVE to agree or regurgitate what other board members tell him.

I have seen his posts where he admits to being an OM - yes, there are some rationalizations of why in his particular instance it's "different" than "normal." He is working through it. I think he will get there.

He seems to be listening. Are other posters?

I think we, as BS's, are quick to defend ANY and all other BS's, immediately pegging the BxH as the victim. Because we see excuses and exaggerations of abuse from many waywards, does that mean that abuse from a BS is NEVER true?

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_Larry_ Offline OP
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MarriedForever

Let me ask you a question.

Quote
*you were/are an OM in another man's M
*despite being here almost 5 years you are claiming you didn't know you were in an "affairage".
*You are claiming an innocent "mistake" in not understanding that when a person is MARRIED and one begins an AFFAIR with them, then proceeds to MARRY them, it is called an AFFAIRAGE.
*You are obviously sharp so it's hard for us to truly believe you never put two and two together.

How do you KNOW I never admitted it? I was exclusively on Recovery for the first few years I was here. Not once did I see that someone who was dating a married woman in process of divorce was committing either physical or emotional adultery, not one time.

How many times does that particular subject come up in context. I was blind, deaf and dumb, didn't see it, never occurred to me.

I had no hesitation to admitting a number of things in open posts. THAT IS HOW ALL THIS GOT STARTED!

I am not claiming an innocent "mistake." That is an untrue allegation. How many times do I have to say, "I was an idiot?"

Hey, I have an even better example of how someone really sharp, as you have called me, and that is marrying someone who, in hind site, was looking to be rescued? Now THAT was dumb.

Larry




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(from Dr. Harley's email to you)Technically, you fall into that category because, as I understand it, you began dating your wife while she was still married, even though the divorce was only days away.


Were you entirely honest with Dr. Harley, Larry? Did you not post that you had been corresponding with your ex-wife over the internet for MONTHS and had fallen in love with her?

I seem to recall reading one of your posts where you indicated that you regretted not fighting for your first-born and that his step-father had really messed him up. Am I remembering correctly? If so, why then would you work to deprive another father of his children after having the same done to you?

You're an intelligent man, and the time-line of events would suggest that you had done your research very well and knew exactly how to effect your moving his children away from him and to your state so as to maximize the liklihood of a change in custodial jurisdiction.

You complain because he wouldn't meet you half-way to pick his children up for visitation. Well, my exDiL moved to Texas, whereupon our son secured custody of his children because the judge would not allow her to move the children away from an involved and loving father. The judge told her that SHE was the one who chose to move, so she was the one responsible for transportaion for visitation...that my son should not be inconvenienced due to HER choices.

As for your ex-wife's 1st husband being abusive...well, he may or may not be. Hard to tell from your story, considering that the man may have been rightfully VERY upset over his wife's affair with you, and then to have his children taken hundreds of miles away from him.

As for the problems with your ex-wife's current husband...well, maybe he is feeling threatened by the fact that it seems he is now stuck in Texas if he wants to stay married to your ex. I'm quite sure that you'll leaev no stone unturned to make sure your son stays in Texas. Don't blame you for that...but I think it's interesting that you managed to convince your ex-wife's new husbandy to move to Texas.

It seems to me, Larry, that you strive to be a font of wisdom on these forums. Indeed, you do seem to have studied and learned the MB principles, but the thing is...it seems as if you still have a wayward mind. Enough of that wayward mindset came through your postings to raise a few hairs on the backs of our necks.

I know another poster who utters soothing words and gives MB advice...except that, sometimes, through the many pretty words, there will be a "dig" at a BS...almost like the poster is hinting that the BS is the cause of the affair. This poster, however, proved to still be a wayward in a private communication. The cruelty and evil in that communication was astounding. puke

I'm not saying that you're deliberately cruel or evil, but I do think you need to rethink your past actions and maybe even your future actions. You might even need to make a few apologies.

Get honest with yourself, Larry.


Last edited by Lady_Clueless; 04/23/10 07:22 PM.

"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Dating a married woman in the process of divorce is adultery though....

My WH is with another woman and I would not date anyone until I have those divorce papers in my hand. Not only for th sake of staying faithful in my M and not stooping to my WH level, but also for any other persons sake that I may date in the future...for the exact reasons stated.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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_Larry_ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Originally Posted by _Larry_
Well, we all have baloney detectors. I would appreciate reference to the thread you address. Once I know what you are talking about, I would be more than glad to address it. From what you say, you could be on to something. Could I have lied to myself in the past. Of course I could. As you well know, that capacity exists full blown in most of us. On the other hand, I would prefer to see it in b/w as opposed to your interpretation.

Sure, no problem!

The rest of your post I'll have to get back to you on, as I am busy packing for our family to go out of town...I may see if Mr. W has time, since the words you are questioning are his...

Originally Posted by _Larry_
rotflmao

Yep. Here is an example. X wife and I were fighting her, uh, XH over custody. He was a complete jerk, telling the kids that our dog was from the devil, I was going to sell them south of the border to a bunch of "Mexicans." And those were just some of the milder examples. Others were calling her a "Ho," a slut, and not a Christian, yada, yada, yada. BTW, we did NOT have an affair marriage. I refused to have anything to do with her until the divorce was filed, then as a friend until it was final.

We spent about 15K moving custody to Texas where our recordings and the testimony of a shrink cooked his goose. He sued in KY in trial court, lost, appealed, lost, then KY Supreme Court.

During KY Supreme Court, the head Judge asked,"Did he really say that?" Lawyer said, "Yes, Your Honor, we have the audio tapes." "Ok," said Judge. End of trial.

Later on, there was a decision. Supreme disagreed with lower courts and MADE UP THEIR OWN REASON to deny what XH wanted. I still laugh when I think about it. That was NOT a slam at lower courts. That was a stick it to XH.

Larry

[emphasis mine]

***LINK TO THREAD***

Mrs. W

I am so glad you posted that. I thought you might.

Read what I said. I didn't think I was in an affair marriage, then I detailed an affair marriage. Good grief woman, why on earth would I detail an affair marriage as I now realize it to be and yet deny that it was in the same sentence? Excuse me, I don't understand the finger point of my lack of honesty in what you posted.

Ever seen the WKRP episode where the Station Manager comes in the door and says, "Andy, I honestly thought turkeys could fly."

Larry

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Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Dating a married woman in the process of divorce is adultery though....

My WH is with another woman and I would not date anyone until I have those divorce papers in my hand. Not only for th sake of staying faithful in my M and not stooping to my WH level, but also for any other persons sake that I may date in the future...for the exact reasons stated.

Would that I had your wisdom at the time I screwed up.

Larry

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Originally Posted by _Larry_
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Dating a married woman in the process of divorce is adultery though....

My WH is with another woman and I would not date anyone until I have those divorce papers in my hand. Not only for th sake of staying faithful in my M and not stooping to my WH level, but also for any other persons sake that I may date in the future...for the exact reasons stated.

Would that I had your wisdom at the time I screwed up.

Larry

This is why I get defensive on his behalf. He has stated over and over and over that he realizes this NOW. And then it is brought up again like he is disagreeing. He agrees - he was wrong.

How many more times will it take?

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Honestly Larry, But if not for this website I cannot say positively that I would have done the same. So I will not be the one to judge you....I just know in my heart, it doesnt feel right to date before I am definitly divorced and I know it is officially over....


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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