I usually post in the In Recovery forum, but there isnt much traffic there and I need lots of help and I need it now. I would link the other post with my story on it but I dont know how, sorry I am technologically challenged.

Anyway, this month is the one year anniversary of D day for me and my FWH. Things have been bad and getting worse between us, probably because this month is such a trigger for me and i knew it was coming. Last night when we were talking about it he admitted to me that the biggest reason he had his A's was because I didnt meet his need for physical attractiveness. I would be able to deal with this if his complaint was weight or the way I dress, something that could be changed. The thing is that it's not. His complaints are things that are related to me mothering his chidren. The only way for me to fix it is to get a breast reduction/lift and a tummy tuck.

I feel that the only way for us to A proof our M and give me any feeling of safety is for me to be able to meet his need for me to be attractive. Nothing else we do is going to help us if I cant fix the underlying source of his unhappiness.

He refuses to POJA the surgery. He says that when the A's happened that he viewed these things as imperfections, but that since I explained to him that I felt that I was being punished for giving him children that he has gained a new perspective. He says that he now looks at the situation and my body differently, that he now sees the imperfections as beautiful because they are the results of me giving him his two beautiful children. I dont think it works that way, I dont think he can just decide all of a sudden that his needs are being met just because he wants it to be met. I get that he think he is shallow for feeling the way that he does, especially since his complaints are things related to the children, but that doesnt change the fact that it is the way he feels.

I know he loves me but I am I right? Or is it possible to fix our M if he just isnt attracted to me?

I am sure you will get more responses...I have never been in recovery so I am just throwin my two cents in..but yes it is possible to fix your M if he isnt attracted to you...He was attracted to you, thats why he married you, that can come back again...theres a thread called "you cant help who you fall in love with" and the point of that thread is that you CAN help who you fall in love with...Check it out.

As you meet his needs you can become more and more attractive to him..it just might take a while, but it can happen.

PS and YES I think he is shallow for feeling the way he does..IMHO most men are shallow.

This is not quite true. The biggest reason for his affair is because didn't have appropriate boundaries around women. Until he takes accountability for his own bad behavior and makes the necessary changes, you are at risk of this happening again.

What has he done to change HIS BEHAVIOR so this doesn't happen again?

ash, I want to point out to you that many, many of the most beautiful women in the world have been cheated on:

Elizabeth Taylor
Jackie Kennedy
Halle Berry
Princess Diana
Elin Woods
Sandra Bullock

And that's only a few of the famous ones.

Sure, having an Attractive Spouse is very important to some people, most often to men, and sure, it's important to do the best you can with whatever you've got.

But look again at the list above. There is always going to be some other Attractive Female who comes along, and it's not *your* physical attractiveness that will keep your husband from straying - as the others here have said, it's HIS boundaries that keep HIM from straying.

You can't be a hundred different women for him. His telling you, "Well, she looked better than you," is just a sickening example of blameshifting. There's always going to be somebody who looks "better" than you - usually because she's just new and different.

You do what you can to look your best for him - that would be part of Plan A - but he's got to keep his end of the bargain by putting up boundaries in front of other women.

If he refuses to do that, you might as well be married to Tiger Woods. Have you seen what his wife looks like?

I would also like to point out that he was relating a "feeling" in the past tense last night. He was maybe being a bit open and honest about a "feeling" he had LAST YEAR. All waywards have rationalizations and justifications for what they did. They re-write history, they fabricate, and they convince themselves that what they are doing is OK. Their inaccurate and inappropriate "feelings" follow their inappropriate and unreal "actions". Thus...your husband started an affair AND THEN felt you were unattractive AT THAT TIME (otherwise you've always been good looking enough)

Now...a year later..it is not how he feels and likely can't believe he felt that way. He is hopefully ashamed of the feeling AND realizes how hurtful it is to have felt that way even for a bit. But, as far as TELLING you about the feeling...that MAY be a good step towards open and honesty. Fog rolls out over time and many different ways. My wife and I still discuss some "feelings" and how to handle them. It's part of this ugly process.

Listen...I heard all sorts of crap the first few weeks after D-day. I realize you are a year out from D-day but he's relating how he felt back then when maybe he was too chicken to tell you about his stupid wayward feelings. I was toxic, Mrs. W hated the way I dressed, smelled, spoke...everything. It's what waywards DO in order to justify their inappropriate and hurtful feelings for their OP. It can't be about them...as they HAVE TO believe they are good people.

But, now that the cat is out of the bag, the problem isn't so much how he felt a year ago or him sharing something he shouldn't have (b/c you WANT him to be honest with you)...but how you feel TODAY about the way he felt a year ago. Having your spouse cheat on you is a huge shot to one's self-esteem and self-image. Add on top...him saying he did it because you weren't attractive enough AT THE TIME to prevent it...is just insult to injury. You say he won't POJA plastic surgery...but if you want it, I'd say it's part of his "just compensation" package. Again...this isn't about how he felt a year ago...but how YOU feel about YOU today. YOU MATTER. YOUR self-image matters. IF you want plastic surgery and it will make you feel better about you (which will be a huge benefit to him and your marriage as well) then he should step up and find a way to make it happen.

A note to your husband...IF she gets a tummy tuck there is also a lot of after care involved. I know...i've done it. POJA'ing this and then following through with the after-care would be a great way to make up for what you did to the largest extent you can. Dr. Harley talks about "just compensation" and plastic surgery...if SHE wants it for herself (not you)...I can't think of a better way to give it in your situation.

Mr. Wondering

Sorry, but I'm getting a little hung up on this one.

Just because a guy or a lot of guys have PA high on their list of EN's doesn't make them shallow any more than having admiration high on the list makes one a narcissist.

EN's are ALL IMPORTANT -- some of them are more important to some folks than to others. I do agree that meeting one's needs is the most efficient way to make yourself more attractive to someone else.

I think I know what you're getting at with the shallow guys thing, it just didn't sit well with me. Kind of like eating too many buffalo wings......

I also think it's ill-advised to pass judgment on someone else's thought process and mindset. From a personal perspective, I have a hard enough time getting a good grasp on my own without trying to meander into the cranium of someone else.

Just my rebuttal for all of the deep and complex men out there....

TB

Please don't buy into this way of thinking. He married you. He is/was attracted to you. Attraction can grow even stronger as you meet each other's EN's. I agree with ML, that he did not have an affair because of anything other than poor boundaries and lousy choices. HIS choices.

I agree with Mr. W - your husband is trying to explain what was going on inside his wayward head


wayward head - remember that!


He is trying to tell you that back then, he was stupid, idiotic, and that he was looking at you with eyes that did not work, and a brain that did not think.


He was looking at you with shallowness, and he was trying to justify his behavior.


What he is telling you now is that he can see who you are - and what you are TO HIM. That means that he sees what you have given to him, and the sacrifice you have made, and that all of this adds up to the beautiful woman before him. What he sees now is his WIFE, and he is grateful that he can see that now.


He's not a wordsmith - but he is trying to tell you that his mistake was in not seeing what was right in front of him:

YOU.


SB

Thank you all for your help. He has changed a lot when it comes to having stronger boundaries and eliminating IB's. I dont doubt that he loves me or that he wants to do everything he can to fix our M. I'm just not really his type.

From the way he tells it when he met me he loved my personality and he was attracted to me, he is just more attracted to women with a certain body type. He wants more the athletic look while I have more of a soft curvacious look. I know I can work my booty off and get the more toned body but my breasts are DD and he is more drawn to about a B cup. Add in the kids and the breastfeeding and even though he loves me and he is attracted to me, he feels a great temptation whenever he sees a woman with the body type he usually favors.

Its the same way with my stomach, even with a lot of exercise it will never have its flat toned pre-pregnancy look. Part of me is flattered that he loved me enough to marry me even though I wasnt his physical ideal, and part of me is just terrified that eventually temptation will get the better of him.

He doesnt want me to get the surgery because he doesnt want the scarring that comes with it, he thinks that would look worse than what I have now, and he swears that he is taking the precautions he needs to take to keep himself out of any more bad situations but I just dont know what to do. He would be happy with the results of the surgery, the size and lift, he just wants it to be that way naturally and I cant give him that. How can I trust him when he says he can live with what I have when I know that it is a big EN for him to have an attractive wife and nothing I can do is going to give him his ideal?

I know his bad boundaries are the real reason for the A's, but I dont know how to feel safe now even with boundaries if I am not meeting that need. The book clearly says that you have to meet EN's before your M can be A proof. I am also terrified of aging, my looks are certainly not going to be any better twenty years from now. I would love to get some input from men who have physical attractiveness as a top EN. How do you feel about your wives aging, the damage done from having children? Is it still possible for them to meet that need even if they dont look as good as younger childless women? How do you deal with the temptation of being around women with better physical attributes? Just hoping to understand the mindset, maybe if I understand more of how it works I will feel a little safer.

Oh I also wanted to add that he had the wayward mindset up till about a week ago. He told me right after D day that the OW's body was better than mine and has maintained that througout the last year (he swore originally that had nothing to do with his decision to have the A and just admitted a few days ago that it had A LOT to do with that decision). He just changed what he has been telling me about her being better, and then only changed it because I told him I felt like I was being punished for giving him children. He says now that he sees the beauty in my body because I gave him kids, but there are still aspects of OW's body that are more a physical turn on for him.

I am not trying to bash the EN of AS, but he married you knowing what you look like. And you are who he married. It's one thing to want our spouses to drop some extra pounds or maybe even color away the gray, but when we start talking about surgery, I think it is twisted to say that someone should have a major procedure.

When I was in my A, I thought the OM was soooo hot, and my DH was just a dud. It wasn't because it was true, it was because I was a wayward idiot. Now I think...WHAT was I thinking??? I mean, my H is so handsome, like a Bronte hero. And OM looked like he belonged in a substandard grunge band. Waywardness induces great amounts of stupidity.

You were designed with a curvy, womanly build, from what you say. There is nothing wrong with that. Yes, take care of yourself, but changing into someone else...no.

I agree with others who say your H is just trying to articulate how he used to feel. If he is in love with you and he has strong boundaries and EP's then the attractiveness of a B-cup will be irrelevant. YOU are the apple of his eye.

Like I said just my opinion....you are entitled to yours.

Yes, this is my point too....especially when a womans body changes so much after children, sometimes breasts get smaller or bigger, sometimes hips get bigger....You can work out and eat well, but sometimes you are just not gonna look like you did when you first got married...esp. when you get married in your twenties...if that is not good enough, then the man is shallow.

Can I ask if he still looks like he did when you got married? If he does, does he expect to continue to look like he did for the rest of his life?

No he doesnt still look like he did when we got married. Thats at the very bottom of my list of needs though so its not a big deal for me. I feel this is a sticky issue since the other needs are all habits that can be changed, while this one well, there just is only so much you can do about it.

I think maybe its mostly all in my head. He swears he is fine with how I look, that he is attracted to me and he doesnt want me to change. I just cant get over the fear. Part of me wants to believe that it was the wayward fog talking, but the things he talked about were areas I was insecure about anyway so then I think it may just be true. Maybe she just did have a really great body. I feel like I am just waiting for the next "something better" to come along. Like the only way for me to be able to relax would be to have the perfect body and thats just not possible.

I am disgusted that he has made you feel this way...esp by hitting on your insecurities...Just keep eating well and exercising (if you have time to with a two month old). Active waywards can say very mean things. As you are working on meeting emotional needs you will become more attractive to him, flaws and all...

My WH has a big mole on his chest that when I first went with him, I swear, it absolutly repulsed me....and after a while, as I fell more and more in love with him, now its part of the man I love and I think it is sexy....I know it is a stupid example, but im just saying?


It has a hair growing out of it too.

LMAO

My BH has a few small moles across his body. He is very aware of them, shaves them, etc. I think they're cute now.

Thats funny, if you think its sexy with the hair and all then it must be love.

I think I am leaning towards doing it when we can afford it. Insurance will pay for it since I am 5'2 and have a DD, its actually pretty painful for me, cant stand up straight and back pain etc. Plus I think I will feel better about myself, be able to dress better like he wants me too. He just doesnt understand that I dont wear baggy T-shirts because I dont care how I look, I do it because cute shirts dont fit me right. If it fits my waist its too small in the chest, if it fits my chest its baggy in the waist. The surgeon I want is all the way in Cali though so its gonna take some time to be able to pay for the flight and hotel and stuff. Still its a goal. And the scars wont be bad if I go to a good surgeon. FWH is still waffling on what he thinks about it, he likes the idea of the changed appearance but doesnt like it being "unnatural". He spends more time on the "do it" side of the fence so by the time I get the money I am pretty sure thats where his head will be.

Ditto what Mr. W said. If YOU want the surgery to feel more comfortable with your body, I would do it, but don't do it to try and make H or anyone else happy. I know a few large breasted women that had the a reduction simply to get relief from backpain and enjoy certain activities that were more difficult because the 'girls' were always in the way. Not sure how much work your tummy needs but they have mini-tummy tucks now that don't require such a large incision...not sure if you have looked into various techniques and doctors but they are not all equal.

Recovery from any surgery is an ordeal but you have 2 little ones and will be unable to lift a newborn after either surgery. Is H capable of providing the level of care you will need during recovery without getting mad about it? Given your recent childbirth, I don't even think most doctors would advise that now is a good time for cosmetic surgery. Is this something for further down the road?

Yes, I agree...I am all for plastic surgery, If it will make YOU feel better about YOURSELF....Then go for it....Dont do it because of your husband, because he played upon your insecurities....That is all i am sayin...YOU need to feel good about yourself on the inside too. Especially after having children having a tummy tuck makes perfect sense if that is what YOU want...

Yeah further down the road. Maybe about 3 years, I want to loose the baby weight and keep it off for at least a year. Plus we have to save up the money. DH changed his stance on the tummy tuck, he is completely against it now. I have a strech mark on my stomach that looks just like the playboy bunny and he is afraid it would distort the shape of it. I guess that didnt occur to him before or something.

I have wanted my chest reduced since they reached their full size for comfort reasons but it really hurt me when I felt like it was something I had to do for him to think I'm attractive. If I take him out of the equation its still something I want done, I just want to know that he would he doesnt think I am hideous now. I want to do it for me, for me to feel physically better, not because he thinks my chest isnt perky enough. It makes a big difference to me.