Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by obr3
Plan B is a part of ending an affair. At this point, at least for the past two or three weeks, she's been "normal". She's even continued, slowly, reading. The big problem, as far as I can tell, is that everything about me is wrong.
Plan B is also used when your LB$ is running out. Plan B is also about preserving your mental health. Plan B also allows the BS a chance to move the focus from marital recovery (because it isn't working) to personal recovery.

Your WW is still in her affair if she is working with OM...and that's why everything is "wrong" with you. This is classic gaslighting, turning everything around on you so that the problems in the M have nothing to do with the affair. That's completely normal and expected. Don't fall for it.

Your W is the one who has to change. It will be impossible to rebuild romantic love with the OM in the picture. Please understand this. Move to Plan B and stop taking this abuse.

Last edited by SusieQ; 07/29/10 10:43 AM.

Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
Originally Posted by obr3
Plan B is a part of ending an affair. At this point, at least for the past two or three weeks, she's been "normal". She's even continued, slowly, reading. The big problem, as far as I can tell, is that everything about me is wrong.

I'm not romantic enough, I don't hug right, I joke too much, I'm too serious, I'm not expressive enough with my emotions, I'm not attractive, I'm not social enough / don't have enough friends, our honeymoon wasn't good, our trips are boring, I'm not present enough during sex, I touch her too much, I touch her too little, I don't clean well enough, etc.

I do provide for us, enough that she wouldn't have to work. Her income has been nice though. I'm great about washing dishes, have cooked often, washed clothes, etc.

What do you mean "she is normal?" Has she quit her job yet? If she has not quit her job, the affair is ongoing. Driving into the job site parking lot is "contact" for her as she is still perceiving him as her knight in shining armor. You need to expose this affair to HR and expose it to others who could help you save your marriage.

Trying to win her back by becoming a clone of her affair partner is not part of a marriage builders plan. She is still heavy into her affair fog. You cannot save your marriage while she is in this state. Expose.


Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
I hope you will listen to Lake, obr!

T/J
How have you been, Lake? You were a great help to me when I first got here. I was wondering what happened to you!


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
Originally Posted by SusieQ
I hope you will listen to Lake, obr!

T/J
How have you been, Lake? You were a great help to me when I first got here. I was wondering what happened to you!

I am ok SQ,
Enjoying the summer and looking forward to the next seasons. Bad case of poison ivy at the moment! Glad I helped you and good to see that you are still here helping out.



Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,094
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,094
OBR,
(it's Opt - remember me from the "poll" post?)
I checked out only the first 2 pages and the last 2 pages of your thread. I expect you've taken a beating or two for the last month, at home and on the board. I really feel for you, man. I'm not going to offer too much advice, since I don't know the advice you've already been offered. It does seem you're stuck in a rut, perhaps somewhat paralyzed. I know the feeling. I went back to read my original thread the other day and realized that I hadn't even registered until my stbxw's EA was at least 6 months strong. I tried various things on my own (and actually started reading MB in July) but never got into the boards (where you get real time practical advice from people who have lived the nightmare and followed all the different roads) until late October! I don't think I even considered my ww's EA as an affair until July/August. (of course she apparently still doesn't, but that's her issue now).

Anyway, as for going around in circles, I just want you to know you're not alone. There's nothing more painful than a spouse's infidelity. It hurts on so many levels, you discover new uncharted emotions, most of them bad. It's like living with someone who's insane and nobody believes you. I bet there's a Twilight Zone episode like that, if there isn't there should have been.

You're only a month into this. It looks like you have no kids with this woman, therefore I'm sure someone along the line has suggested you just hang it up. That's your decision. Just remember if you decide to stick it out, the path back is very narrow. Very narrow and the folks here don't mess around - they are telling you exactly what to do to save your marriage if you choose to do so. I would like to point out that however much chaos it seems taking their advice might cause (with Plan B's and exposures at work, etc.) virtually all other roads lead to the chaos of divorce, so pick your poison my friend.

Whatever you choose, I hope you'll stay committed to MB and the principles you find here. They are real. Applied correctly they will make for a better OBR. An OBR that someday has the marriage you dream of. I'm 41. I wouldn't change anything that happened until I was 33 because that's when I was blessed with my beautiful angel daughter, now 8. But I sure wish I had discovered MB soon after she was born; I might have saved myself and my kids a lot of pain.

As I've said, you remind me of me, OBR. But you have a 12 year head start. I wish you well.

~optimism~


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
Divorce from WW final 9/16/10.
Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10)
Mine: S(16), D(11)
NatureGirls: S(23), D(21)
Another EA Story
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,986
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,986
Bumping for OBR


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 58
O
obr3 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 58
I don't want to talk about this but do want to log the account of how this plays out. Maybe it will be useful to someone one day.

Short Update
I don't know what I'm saving. I'm back of forth between divorce and saving this marriage. When I say back and forth, I mean it. I can literally change my mind several times a minute. She's shut down again recently, we don't touch, but we are talking at times.

Full Update
I'm not sure what I'm trying to save when my wife tells me that before walking in the door from work, she imagines with some hope, that I've killed myself. Now try to think of that as a simple, completely honest thought. She's suffering and in that scenario she is freed from marriage without taking any action. Makes sense I suppose. Still, that's jacked up and I'm having a hard time motivating myself to be with someone that may or may not want me dead. That said, we've had a few good moments several weeks ago and I don't think she's planning on killing me.

This weekend we took a trip and met up with some of her friends. We went to a concert, which is fine, but I don't go often. It lasted until 3:30am, during which at 2am I went to the car to sleep while she stayed to dance after the band had left.

Two nights later five of us went to a dance club, not something I'd opted for, being the boring 29 year old I am, but the group was going and I didn't get a vote. I did the dance floor thing for a short while, then, due to very painfully loud music, retreated to a far corner of the building to save my hearing. (Later in the trip she commented on it sounding like being in a bubble.) A bit after 2am she plopped down nearby, yelled that they were going to dance a bit longer then go do karaoke. I left with the car to find a bathroom that didn't have vomit in it. While I was gone they left at 3:15am to return to the hotel, couldn't find me and the car, so she ran 2 miles back with another guy to the hotel. The other friends called me, I picked them up, and that was that.

During the weekend, touching, kissing, etc was stressed and limited. When attempting for hugs she'd subtly resist and her attention was near 100% on everyone else. Us aside, I enjoyed the rest of the trip less the two very late nights.

Anyways, at this point I'm not sure what I'm working to save. She's already proven that she'll consciously see someone else, she hates that I don't enjoy bars, dance clubs, being out late. She hates that I expect her to give me a shadow of an idea about when she'll be home at night or that I expect her home at a reasonable hour for a weekday or weekend. The intimacy between us has rarely been enjoyable. I'm starting to see myself as a rebound guy from her previous longterm boyfriend years ago. She's cold to lukewarm affection-wise, doesn't want to discuss any of what's happened, and blames me for most of it. She might be right about me, but I'm starting to see other people that dwarf me in areas she complains about.

She's shown me little respect throughout the past 3 months. Six days after D-Day she goes out to a wine tasting, then dinner, and comes home hours late. Then I find out she's broken no-contact. Since then she's come home between 10pm - 2am a handful of times, often on weekdays. A few of those times, she's been completely out of communication. Three weeks back she went to a dinner and movie after work with a girlfriend. Fine, no problem on my end. While she's out I see she spent a ton of money at a few restaurants, odd, but her call on that. Movie ends at 9:30pm, I'm at home sick, I'm wondering where she is. I call, I text, two hours go by. I ride my motorcycle to the open air mall and wonder around for an hour going into whatever businesses haven't locked their doors already. Finally I see her walking with her friend towards me. It was a great relief that she was with her friend. After the movie they'd gotten some more drinks and food and talked for a few hours. When I asked her why she didn't call, she said she didn't know it was late. Then was upset that I'm asking her to give up everything by wanting her to call me when she's going to stay out a few extra hours or not see me until morning.

The confusing part
We visited, finally, my family. I wanted them to have their questions answered too. After that we've talked and she says she wants to try to save the marriage, but little that goes on says that. She's too tired, stressed, and feeling guilty to talk about it. Then we retreat into computers, movies, and cooking, or she has a friend over, or she goes out and I go to bed wondering what's really going on.

In the meantime I'm on my 4th book trying to work on us and myself, on anti-depressants, have quit leaving at night for anything, and get to be sexually frustrated to boot. Oh, and she "can't take this anymore". The "this" being my distress and hurt over our marriage. She's too sick of this to read any more marriage books; but did finally pick one up a few nights ago to my shock and surprise. We'll see how that turns out.

Spiritually
Dance clubs and some bars seem they might be over the line spiritually speaking. I'm a screwed up person, I know this, but I have limits. I avoid drunkenness, for both personal and spiritual reasons. The scenes we're at and people we're with sometimes make me question whether I should be there at all. My wife will be there with or without me. Not sure what to think about that. I was rougher in my early twenties, but am not interested in being around alcoholics or out late at night anymore. That fact about myself drives my wife nuts.

I hope nobody read this far, unless this helps somehow. Keep in mind that I discuss the meat of the situation. She's not out every night partying. Not even close. Yet, her social life has changed 8000% in the past 4 or so months. She's selfish, egotistical, and humility does not come easy for her. Many actions she takes screams "I want to be single", her words are otherwise. At this point, I'm holding divorce in one hand and a life of trying to be with someone that imagines me dying and has possibly never really felt love for me in the other.

I no longer believe in love. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.




Side note
What's this business about cheating spouses being sorry about the affair? Does that really happen? Plus I read about cheating spouses that agree to report in on their whereabouts at all times and come home at night when expected. Does that actually happen?!


Further side note
I'm burnt out and have little time left before I make a drastic decision perhaps later this month. I've considered giving it my all for the entire month of Sept, which should be a bit easy because I travel for a week. If she can't come around by then or mature a little, something has to give.


BH: 29
WW: 25 with co-worker EA, false recovery, then PA
Status: in recovery
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Plan B, obr. Please look at Plan B...


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Oh, and in case it's not obvious to you, the A is still ongoing with coworker OM and things aren't going to improve until she leaves...so make that a minimum requirement in your Plan B letter.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,921
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,921
Orb,

It�s time for Plan B. You need to protect yourself emotionally and get away from the madness. Plan B is not divorce. Plan B is shelter for you so you can think straight.

Personally, I think you should D, since you have no children. I went through this exact same thing with my ex. It�s a phase she�s going through while trying to relive some lost childhood she thinks she�s missed out on. I was told I was �too old for my age.�

Well, at that point we had 3 kids and I had a career and had no desire to go to clubs and bars to dance. Made me boring, I guess, in her eyes.

Seriously, Orb, there are wonderful women out there in their 30s who are way past all that garbage. But go to Plan B, and then decide for yourself.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
Quote
Many actions she takes screams "I want to be single", her words are otherwise.

I think you are getting to the heart of the matter here. I believe that some WW (my x-wife in her mid-life crisis being one) are addicted and in the fog of wanting to live the single life, not necessarily being infatuated with any particular OM. You've been to these bars and clubs she frequents, you know the kind of attention women get there.

It's a rush for our variety of WW to get all this attention lavished on them by strange men, especially when they've been in a rut of complacency and unmet EN's at home. It makes them feel special, alive again. It starts with the WW just enjoying the attention and the flirting, but that's a dangerous game that invariably leads to one of these men really connecting and a full-blown affair.

In your case (and I think it was the case in my situation), the fantasy wasn't live happily ever after with the OM, it's to live the single life again.

I'll let some of the vets ponder on this variety of WW and see if there's a slightly different twist on how to deal with it when it's not any one OM you're fighting against.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,079
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,079
Hi obr3.

I will say this as kindly as I can to you. I cannot understand why you made your last post. To me it seems that you intended to document the demise of a M. In a way that seems insulting to the many here and many out there who do value and attempt to recover their marriages and, as a result, is not going to be of any value to anyone desiring reconciliation. Your futile attempt to elicit responses to a "night out" survey seems to verify this.

At this point, I would suggest that you use all the resources available to you to become emotionally stable before you attempt to address your W or try to address your M. Please make an attempt one final time to listen to the experienced veterans here.

I wish you good luck, good health and prayers, but you need to get straight.

Tom


Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 58
O
obr3 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 58
You were all correct about everything. Thank you for trying to help. In the end, I'm a child, and it simply didn't matter what advice I received. I'm sorry.

For the curious
It's continued going on. She's refused to leave her job. She's had unprotected sex with him. Work exposure could have helped, though we very likely would have to had moved out of town quickly to break this off. She scoffed and ridiculed me badly when I'd ask her questions or question her faithfulness.

I've continued studying myself and reading. I believe now that my largest issue is habitual conflict avoidance. From what I can tell, it's responsible for most of our marital problems. With a problem like I have, I shouldn't expect less than an affair.

I've dumped everything on family and I mean everything. I have no more skeletons. My wife is acting sincerely remorseful for the first time since this began. She's pleading with me to stay and work on the marriage and currently driving to see my parents, whatever that's for.

She's been a closed box for weeks. I've been nice. At some point around a week ago I stopped thinking about it. We went to dinner, I laid out my intentions to work on my problems, go to counseling with her starting in two weeks, apologized for doubting her, that I love her, and I finally forgive her for everything.

She was quiet and upset. The next morning she sat down and told me that she didn't deserve forgiveness and then told me why. I said thanks for telling me, took my gun, and left. I took the weapon for her sake, though I doubt she would hurt herself. I drove to the guy's house and tore his brand new jeep to pieces with a tire iron, cutting my hand pretty badly in the process. Say what you will, I felt a lot better after that. Despite the fact that I'll probably end up paying for it unless he values his job and reputation, of which I'm poised and ready to destroy if he comes after me for that.

I'm on a business trip for a week now, which is good timing. It'll be nice to be away. My only demands were that she doesn't let him into our apartment, but other than that do whatever she wants and have a plan to stay somewhere else when I get back.

That's it. For anyone in my situation, but at an earlier point, listen to the people here and if your spouse is acting like mine, I suppose you need to immediately quit your job and move a few states away.



BH: 29
WW: 25 with co-worker EA, false recovery, then PA
Status: in recovery
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 613
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 613
Lose the tire iron!!! I am sure he will call the cops and you will be at the top of the list of suspects.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
When and where was the PA?

Why is she suddenly remorseful? Is she pregnant? Has he dumped her?

Why does she suddenly want you now? Are you a shoulder to cry on?
Can you go back to her at this time or are you still undecided?


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 58
O
obr3 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 58
@imagine

A week ago at a friend's house. Best I can tell she's remorseful because her family pushed her hard to "try and save this marriage" along with lots of religious scare tactics. I don't know if she's pregnant, but I doubt it. I'm sure he'd be happy to screw her a few more times.

She's still "trying to fix things". Quitting her job tomorrow supposedly. I SMSed her and told her to keep her job, she'll need the income.

Right now, I can't think about her without picturing them together and all of the disgusting details. Why would any sane person want to stay? She doesn't love me. Love is not the reason she's trying to "save things" now. She's trying to right herself and save a little face with her family I imagine.

I'd rather kill myself at this point than "go back to her".


BH: 29
WW: 25 with co-worker EA, false recovery, then PA
Status: in recovery
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,357
Originally Posted by obr3
@imagine

A week ago at a friend's house. Best I can tell she's remorseful because her family pushed her hard to "try and save this marriage" along with lots of religious scare tactics. I don't know if she's pregnant, but I doubt it. I'm sure he'd be happy to screw her a few more times.

She's still "trying to fix things". Quitting her job tomorrow supposedly. I SMSed her and told her to keep her job, she'll need the income.

Right now, I can't think about her without picturing them together and all of the disgusting details. Why would any sane person want to stay? She doesn't love me. Love is not the reason she's trying to "save things" now. She's trying to right herself and save a little face with her family I imagine.

I'd rather kill myself at this point than "go back to her".

obr, remind me again: Why did you not expose this A at their jobs months ago, when you first got here and we told you what to do?
I ask because your thread is going to be a good reference for new posters who don't get the exposure concept. They need to see the outcome when someone refuses to expose a work A.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,879
Originally Posted by obr3
She's still "trying to fix things". Quitting her job tomorrow supposedly. I SMSed her and told her to keep her job, she'll need the income.


You told her not to quite?? You just made the biggest mistake of your life for saying this.

Good luck.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,993
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,993
obr - remind me - do you have children?


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,448
Sorry obr but also glad that you found out the truth.

You may feel differently once a little time passes. On my 1st day I was D-O-N-E...but just recognize that your LB$ is very low because you have been dealing with an active wayward and spinning your wheels for the last couple of months. If she tries to meet your ENs and shows remorse, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you feel differently. PLEASE follow Harleys rules for recovery to the letter if you decide to R!

One other thing, I DO NOT believe her at all that this only happened one time. I do not say this to hurt you ~ just want you to be aware and go for STD testing.

Hang in there!!


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,254 guests, and 50 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5