I read thread after thread of how Porn has/is destroying relationships and it's a tragedy.

Men......is't not all the innocent descriptors you think it is....it's a destroyer of both yourself and your family.

Put up barriers; just as you do in "real" life....don't be alone with a woman...don't talk about personal issues....don't respond to uncomfortable statements. RUN....RUN...and keep running as fast as you can from it. I don't think there's anything as dangerous or destructive as Porn; and that includes drugs and prositution.

JMHO,
Pegasus

I agree Pegasus. Pornography is a very harmful thing-- very addicting, exploitive, degrading, and a very false picture of "intimacy."

pegusus,

i'm guessing the porn is why you and your wife struggle so much w/ what works for the other......sexually. ( 'wifes touch not working' thread)

i,m guessing that you anticipate that she will behave like the women in porn you have seen.....
and when she doesn't, you blame her.
she picks up on the blame and feels worthless and then resentful.

women in porn are actrsses.....what you see 'working' for them in most porn movies is based on male fantasy.....not what really works for a woman.

perhaps you and your wife could find some material that is more couple oriented and work together at pleasing eachother.

<small>[ January 20, 2004, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

i agree that porn is very damaging to the relationship. My WS would use it instead of coming to me. I have found that asking or demanding doesn't work. Men can not control this urge as they think they can. It is a step in the wrong direction. They usually progess into deeper areas of immorality. Since we are seeking answers to what is the problem with some infidelity, I believe that porn is the start of sexual addiction. I been a christian have asked for guidance from my church and God. The bible states that lusting is immoral. God has stated that he will destroy the world for sexual immorality. Looking at our present day soceity, sexual immorality is raging. Christians have become politically corrrect and have not voiced they beliefs in the bible, and God. I pray that anyone who has to deal with this crisis will first seek assurance they are sure of their salvation. Then ask God to pray for them and the other party. Seek help and guidance from the church. Do not deny the problem cause Satan wants us to be ashamed. Then seek assurance that the offending party is sure of their salvation also. I have been crushed by this as we all have but God has the answers we are searching for and the way to heal the hurts of the offending and injured spouse. Peace.

Some statistics show that upwards of 1/3 of porn is now purchased or viewed by women. This is no longer just a "male" issue.

Men - get a copy of "Every Man's Battle" and take it to heart.

Ladies - get a copy of Dr. Laura's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" and take it to heart.

The world (and marriages!) would be a much better place!

Nelly,

Just as with my other thread you mentioned, you are SO off base you are on another planet and responding to your idiotic conclusions are a waste of bandwidth.

I've seen so little Porn; only when I get one of those emails that lie "hyjack" you to one of their sites. I simply put a filter in place, block the sender, and delete the message.

Porn, from what I've read, is completely demeaning to women and an affront to anyone with character, morals, and values.

Every...the only book I would add would be "Women or from Venus; Men are from Mars"....Yours are GREAT choices that help a great deal.

Your suggestions should be handy to add frequently to new folks who post on the topic.

Peg,

relax, for crying outloud.
you have brought up porn in several threads as well as the fact that your wifes touch does nothing for you. perhaps i jumped to the conclusion that you are having an issue w/ it....like so many others.

why is that, do you think?

how far off base am i really?

you don't have to answer me, and i am not trying to attack you.
and neither were the others who you told were all wrong in the advice they suggested.

goood luck w/ your marriage.

Nelly,

Thanks for the good luck wishes and I'll write about any topic I think is valid; just as does everyone else.

Hope you get a clue, you need too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pegasus

instead of being so vague,
could you please tell me what clue it is that you think i need to get??

please.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pegasus959:
<strong> Nelly,

Just as with my other thread you mentioned, you are SO off base you are on another planet and responding to your idiotic conclusions are a waste of bandwidth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Whoa there, little winged horsey. It would be decent of you to keep in mind that there are many different people here who have many different opinions. Many of those opinions are different from your own.

If you are only accepting of agreement, maybe you should entitle your thread "Come here and agree with me".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I've seen so little Porn; only when I get one of those emails that lie "hyjack" you to one of their sites. Porn, from what I've read, is completely demeaning to women and an affront to anyone with character, morals, and values. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This I find funny. If you've hardly seen anything in the way of porn, then how do you know anything of what you are talking about?

Porn is more destructive than drugs or prostitution? I've never heard of anyone dying from porn use. The worst I can imagine is a friction burn. Overdoses and HIV can lead to death and that to me seems far more dangerous.

Pegasus,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Porn, from what I've read, is completely demeaning to women and an affront to anyone with character, morals, and values.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting. So you haven't viewed much porn, but you're willing to go by what others have read. Does this mean all porn? Anything a man will masturbate to?

Quite a few men get their enjoyment from a Victoria's Secret catalog or even local paper ads for bras and panties at Sears no less. Is that completely demeaning?

This is a difficult subject with very strong opponents.

I think a primary mistake is for women to take it personally. Your husband doesn't want the women in the porn or even for you to do what they do. They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.

Porn is an escape, a release, sometimes something to do to keep from thinking about what they're not getting from their wives.

Wives complain about the husband masturbating to porn in the next room. Could your husband have come to you instead? If he could did he know that? Think you could get him to come to bed with you instead?

Are some of the things your husband would like to do with you in bed really that bad? What are the problems YOU have with it?

I do not have too much of an issue with porn, I used to get so mad when I knew my husband looked at it. It drove me nuts, but he explained it to me very well. he said sometimes guy just have to get off when their wife is not around, so they need a visual. Guys are very visual. He masturbates to the penetration. It does not bug me when he is watching a man and a woman have sex, but if he is just looking at other women or lesbian porn it makes me nuts. But latley we have been exploring anal sex, which is something you really have to work into and some girls take longer than others and when he tried to put it in and he couldnt he got very pissed off. Which is why porn can be so misleading. he thinks he can do me like those girls get done on the first attempt, NNOOOOOOO. Porn is such a controversial topic and you have too look at all different aspects. A guy jerking off to porn in the next room from you is very disrespectful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Scrum:
<strong> I think a primary mistake is for women to take it personally. Your husband doesn't want the women in the porn or even for you to do what they do. They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.

Porn is an escape, a release, sometimes something to do to keep from thinking about what they're not getting from their wives.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me just draw attention to your statement here and bold repeat something that just jumps out at me - nearly had fire coming out my ears and nose as I read it...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Scrum:
<strong> I think a primary mistake is for women to take it personally. .......

They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. .....

Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's try this with a new twist:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Wives want sexual fulfillment without worrrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please him, without the same old same old.....

Most of all, wives want to feel desired and wanted by their husbands. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Kinda hard to feel these things if your husband is mentally doing it with her instead of you. Kind of hard to not feel that you're going to come up as inferior, that you can't please him...

Sorry - your explanation and rationale are enough to make a rational woman puke! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ January 22, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

Porn is here to stay. It is something that wives are going to have to deal with whether they like it or not. You can bad mouth it all you want, but that doesn't solve the problem or help you deal with it.

I think men don't understand the problems women have with porn.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
He masturbates to the penetration. It does not bug me when he is watching a man and a woman have sex, but if he is just looking at other women or lesbian porn it makes me nuts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most men would never guess what isithopeless said is her trouble spot with porn in a million years.

I agree the next room stuff is bad and a huge indicator of poor communication. It is very disrespectful to both parties. Some men have a real porn addiction, but most would much rather be with their wives.

Some women can do it just like the porns. I didn't think so until I experienced it myself. Everybody is different.

Explore, play, communicate, enjoy.

KaylaAndy: Well done. Your post voices the thoughts and feelings of many spouses. And YES, we have mentioned it before in a nonthreathening way. But time and time again, Husbands deny we ever Mentioned it in the first place. Woman are not clueless--it you were having sex with us and then stop...We ask WHY? Many men consider it "harmless fun" and that isn't what you would label an affair. It starts somewhere and "Survey says... 68 % of men first met their OW on the internet and had been looking at porn sites which lead them to the OW." Peace

KaylaAndy,

You're an example of why I've stayed away from marriage builders discussion boards.

Concentrate on the problem and not attacking me.

Men and women are not that different in what they want.

I would seriously doubt a husband would mentally be doing it with "her" while he is with you. You are assumming and making it personal.

Husbands do not view their wives as inferior and for the most part do not understand women's self-esteem issues. If you think you're going to fail then you probably are!

How many women out there have husbands who want you to wear sexy lingerie, but you don't because you don't feel good enough about your body? You don't look like the models? Your husband doesn't give a hoot about that. For him it is a sign of you showing an interest and wanting to please him as well as being visually stimulating.

This isn't any different than a woman wanting her husband to show an interest with flowers or another form of romance.

We all want the same things, but with different techniques.

Unfortunately the husbands preferred techniques are politically incorrect, but a wive's are not.

When's the last time you heard romance novels getting bashed or the women who read them?

Romance novels are PORN for women. They have the same effects on marriage and relationships. They just aren't as easy a target to hit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Sorry - your explanation and rationale are enough to make a rational woman puke!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">An you are a rational woman?

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Scrum ]</small>

This is just a big pity party. Get together, bash and attack.

Do you feel better about yourselves?

Well that's nice because the problems aren't any closer to being solved.

Think about that!

scrum,
i think i am a fairly rational woman when it comes to this subject.
atleast, i try to be......and it has taken me a while to get here.

you are right about a few things....but, you are making way too many assumptions and accusations.

there was a huge thread several months ago about how romance novels and porn do NOTHING to help build
intimacy in a relationship......it's best to discuss and disclose and seek to understand anything your spouse may have an issue with and the reasons behind them.

by the way...Pegusus....who started this thread..is a man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Scrum:
<strong> KaylaAndy,

You're an example of why I've stayed away from marriage builders discussion boards.

Concentrate on the problem and not attacking me.

An you are a rational woman? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh show me how it's done, oh masterful one. Show me how well you DON'T attack the individual and instead focus on the problem.

I guess I have to spell this out for you. Address the issue I raised, please. Put the shoe on the other foot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Wives want sexual fulfillment without worrrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please him, without the same old same old.....

Most of all, wives want to feel desired and wanted by their husbands. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can a woman NOT worry about doing something wrong... How does she feel desired?.... How does she not feel insecure about pleasing him? ... How does she NOT take it personally when the man is getting his sexual fulfillment from porn and not EXCLUSIVELY from the marriage. Your words not mine.

Scrum wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They want sexual fulfillment without worrying about doing something wrong, without the worry of trying to please you, without the same old same old. Most of all husbands like to feel desired and wanted by their wives.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Porn has no place in a marriage that is focused on meeting each other's needs instead of self-satisfaction. It's a lot harder to work to meet someone else's needs. And frankly, it's a lot harder to allow someone the patience, love, kindness and respect to let them meet our needs exclusively without seeking outside fulfillment, be it a paper-doll or a flesh-and-blood OW.

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>