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MJ,

The tone of OM's letter tells me that at this point your WW has led him to believe she is divorcing, and that the paperwork will go through on its own, with a date certain. He states that in the letter - and his words and phraseology tell me that this is something he is quite comfortable in "knowing".

The problem for him is that these things often seem "certain" and come unglued. You are correct - two or three months down the road Honey may very well have a change of heart, if you do your Plan A work correctly.


As far as my thoughts go, regarding the idea of exposing to his son?


I'm not a huge advocate of telling kids that are minors about things their parents are in charge of. For me, that is something the parents should decide.

On the other hand, it wouldn't kill me if the son found out through another source. He may already suspect, or even know. Things get around.

SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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School Bus, you wrote

Quote:
As far as my thoughts go, regarding the idea of exposing to his son?

I'm not a huge advocate of telling kids that are minors about things their parents are in charge of. For me, that is something the parents should decide.

On the other hand, it wouldn't kill me if the son found out through another source. He may already suspect, or even know. Things get around.


I agree. At this point, me telling his son would be hitting below the belt -- an act of "vengeance" that he accuses me of. Would the OM's STBXW tell the son? I doubt it. So the OM and Honey would blame me.

However, I wonder about forwarding the OM's letter to his boss, who is also Honey's boss. What do you think? I'm undecided. On the one hand, the OM composed the letter at work, a likely violation of company policy; whether having a workplace affair is a violation of company policy I don't know. On the other hand, days before Honey moved out, I told the boss of Honey and OM questions about their relationship. The boss told me to work on my own problems.

-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

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I'd go over their bosses head and let their bosses boss know that he's allowing a workplace affair to go uncontested. If the boss of Honey and OM don't care about the affair now, he may if his boss is not a fan of the affair.

If I understand, you've tried to engage their boss and got the blow off. His boss may want to know one of his reports has a casual attitude about workplace affairs.

Such affairs can bring negative consequences to the workplace, and it's unwise for any leader to allow such a potential landmine to undermine any office, division, or whatever workunit the laizze-faire boss manages.

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Enlightened,

Thanks for the advice. You are right: their boss's attitude was laissez-faire.

I called the corporation's human relations department and will hear from them tomorrow.

On the 'net, I did a bit of research about workplace affairs (and remember reading a thread on MB about them). The technical term is workplace fraternization. Unless the affair is between a supervisor and underling, the problem is that the affair damages employee morale, especially relating to promotions and performance. That's my two cents.

I would be more enthusiastic about calling their boss to the carpet, except that Dr. Harley isn't crazy about exposing at work. And right now, Honey earns all of the money in our family.
-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Last edited by MichaelJan; 08/17/10 04:41 PM.
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It really depends on company policy. Many companies won't allow those romantically involved to be in the same management chain. Not to mention what is the negative PR associated with knowingly refusing to address a workplace affair when one or both the betrayed spouses brought it to the attention of management.

Also, if they are using work resources, such as computers, cell phones, etc, to carry on the affair, if there are any damages awarded, the company who allowed this to continue against published company policy may be liable.

If your state or the state they work has alienation of affection laws, or laws against adultery, you may be able to entangle the employer in any legal action.

Lawyers like going after deep pockets. No company looks good if it's public knowledge that they allow their employees to carry on, breaking up families.

There are all sorts of ways to put pressure on the employer that might make them care more than they've indicated so far.

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WW has to give up this job to get NC with the OM any way. If she or OM gets fire first step in ending affair and starting recovery.

TheRoad #2417980 08/17/10 05:06 PM
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Who says they have to know you exposed. If they are having an affair at work and it's against company policy, they made the decision to break the rules.

Besides, you have an offer pending.

I suppose you could wait until you start work. But I wouldn't wait too much longer after that.

TheRoad #2417982 08/17/10 05:07 PM
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Enlightened -- Honey is definitely using a work resource, a Blackberry, to carry on her A. She uses it all the time.

Honey's state has laws against adultery, but not for alienation of affection. Go figure. But yeah, the employer would NOT want to be entangled in such a thing.

The Road -- Good to see you are reading my thread again.

I thought the same thing: Honey has to get NC with the OM anyway. However, she likely would never talk with me again if she were fired because I exposed her A to her employer. Exposing it might destroy the house with no possibility of it being rebuilt. Then again, the house of our marriage is crumbling.

For what it's worth, Dr. Harley weighed in on workplace affairs in a column last October:

Quote:
When there is an affair in the workplace, my general advice is that the unfaithful spouse must quit the job and find another to avoid ever seeing or talking to the lover again. But while the affair is taking place and the unfaithful spouse is unwilling to resign, should a betrayed spouse expose the affair to the employer? While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children, and the lovers spouse, Im not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. Thats because such an exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim. Or, it might trigger an outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult to find another job. So my advice whether or not to expose to an employer is usually made on a case-by-case basis.
-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

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Yes I've read that.

Don't preemptively blame yourself if she gets fired. She won't be fired because you exposed. If she's fired, she's fired because of her choices.

Don't accept blame that's not yours. I'm sure there is plenty that is yours, but should she get fired, she and the OM own it 110%.

Besides, if they already know and she gets fired even if you don't expose, she'll likely try to shift the blame to you anyway.

Don't accept that blame. It's not the exposure that makes bad things happen, it's the affair.

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The people at work already know.

It's kind of overkill at this point, IMHO.


You need to be in Plan A, and be the bigger man, the better prize to Honey.


What are you doing to look like the best choice?

Have you shared his letter to you with her?


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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schoolbus wrote,

Quote:
The people at work already know [about Honey's . It's kind of overkill at this point, IMHO.


I tend to agree with you. Exposing again might be overkill. Also, while jogging last night, I thought of my possible reasons for exposing again to their boss and or his boss' boss. Almost all of my reasons would be rooted more in vengeance and spite at the OM. These likely are not sufficient to expose again. You know what the Bible says about vengeance: It's for God to exact vengeance, not us.

That said, finding out their company's policy on "workplace fraternization" would be good to know; a possible bullet in my holster.

You also wrote,

Quote:
You need to be in Plan A, and be the bigger man, the better prize to Honey.

What are you doing to look like the best choice?


Thanks for asking. I've taken six steps to being the bigger man and better prize for Honey:

1. Am on the verge of getting a stable, full-time job during the day. This would meet Honey's EN's for C, A, and FS.

2. Have written out and followed a plan to prevent DD1.5 from being bitten by mosquitoes and for me to listen to Honey at all times. This began last week and would meet her EN for FC and DS.

3. Have written out and followed a plan to get us out of debt, secure an emergency fund for us, and put us on the road to prosperity. This began last night and would meet Honey's EN for FS. Now I just need to pay her back about $700!

4. Have written out and followed a plan to stop looking at porn and masturbating. I haven't looked at porn in 9 weeks and haven't done -- well, you know -- in 3 weeks. This meets her EN for H and SF, albeit indirectly.

5. Have lost 20 pounds and run 15-18 miles a week. This would meet her need for PA.

6. Have been radically honest with her.

I'm content with my self improvement. The only problem is, Honey won't give me the time to witness my changes firsthand.

As for the OM's letter, he forwarded it to Honey, so I don't need to share it! grin

P.S. For newbies curious about my abbreviations for Emotional Needs, here is the URL to Dr. Harley's description of them. [url=http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html][/url]

-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

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With my new job starting up, my child-care situation will change. I will have less time with our daughters. Instead of caring for them for all of Thursday and Fridays, I will be at work those days. What's the best way to negotiate with Honey about the days? confused

I talked with her about the sitch today. Not surprisingly, she doesn't want to budge from our current arrangement: She gets them 4.5 days a week, I get them 2.5 days a week. I made a new offer: I get them 3 days a week, she gets them 4 days a week. She hated that idea. In fact, she said I should get them less than now -- every other weekend. No way, I said. puke

Naturally, I think my proposal is best. I would pick them up from day care on Wednesdays and drop them off to her on Saturday evenings. This arrangement would give me almost a full day with the girls on Saturdays as well as three nights (Wednesday, Thursday, & Friday). She would have them four nights, including a full day on Sunday. She would continue to see more of them. Yet she wants no part of this new deal. dramaqueen

Honey is angry; I can tell. After we negotiated our old rental deposit, she said she "looks forward" to having the courts settle how much I owe her monthly. Her implication that we're getting divorced is discouraging, to say the least grumble... And yet she sounded genuinely hopeful today when I told her that I received a verbal offer of employment.

-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

Last edited by MichaelJan; 08/18/10 03:48 PM.
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Tell her the courts will award you 50-50 time with the kids. She doesn't get to decide how much each of you get the kids!!!

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Thanks for writing InLikeFlynn. You write,

Quote:
Tell her the courts will award you 50-50 time with the kids. She doesn't get to decide how much each of you get the kids!!!


I told this to her the weekend before last. It's joint custody in northern Virginia courts, I said. She denied this. I would only get the kids every other weekend, she said. She's barmy -- oh, sorry, she's a typical wayward.

Perhaps the best I can do for now is to get a bit more time. Instead of picking them up Thursday mornings, I would pick them up Wednesday nights. This would make commuting to work much easier. We would maintain our current arrangement on Saturdays -- one Saturday 2 p.m. drop off, another Saturday 7 p.m. drop off. The problem is, I would not get a full day with our lil chicas. mad

-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10


Last edited by MichaelJan; 08/18/10 04:10 PM.
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MJ,

""And yet she sounded genuinely hopeful today when I told her that I received a verbal offer of employment.""

She is thinking about the alimony she will be paying you and now, maybe, not as much!!

Sorry dude.

kirk


CORDUROY PILLOWS ARE MAKING HEADLINES!!
krusht #2418376 08/18/10 04:24 PM
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Kirk writes,

Quote:
She is thinking about the alimony she will be paying you and now, maybe, not as much!!


Why would she pay me alimony? think

-----------------------------------------------

Me: BH, 39 (with job offer pending)
Her: WW, 33
2 young kids (DD3 and DD1.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
Her move out: Fall '09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10

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Originally Posted By: MichaelJan
Why would she pay me alimony? think


Does she make more money than you now?


ManInMotion
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Quote:
Does she make more money than you now?



Yep. $29k more.

Any thoughts on our new child-care arrangements?

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MJ,

Instead of worrying about what her plans are for you....


Why don't you begin making plans and making your own demands?


Plan A isn't all about what SHE wants.

There are realistic issues here. While you can be showing her how terrific you are, you can also show her the consequences of the divorce.

There is a good point in the issue of alimony. She makes more money than you do. Therefore


you CAN ask for spousal support,
you CAN ask for child support,
you CAN ask for FULL CUSTODY.

WHY NOT????/


Wouldn't that surprise her?

Why are you leaning back and accepting her explanations that "she will have the kids" certain percentages, certain days, and that YOU will pay alimony?

The court has not ruled.


You need to get the idea that YOU can push back.


There is something to be said for a STRONG MAN.

Look down there. You have a pair.


Women are actually attracted to men who take charge. It might surprise you to find out that she responds quite differently to you when you tell her that you have your own ideas of how this divorce would go down

IF

it even goes down.


Then, have your attorney file YOUR ideas. Foul things up a bit.


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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Quote:
Then, have your attorney file YOUR ideas. Foul things up a bit.


Me thinks you have a grrrrreat plan. Are you up for it? Full on Plan A or bust. If your WW decides that she IS going to commit to your marriage, you can get a better job then to help out your family, with POJA of course. You need to listen to what these people are telling you. They have recovered their own marriages and have helped others with their own marriages. They have seen it all. Listen up. You will learn a lot from them.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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